Poll: Questions about dating a Muslim

[Xan Krieger]

I've heard certain different ways about exactly what Halaal is. Do you actually know how they're killed?

It's pretty goddamn brutal.
I don't approve of it myself and would never want to touch the stuff.

Spoiler: EXTREMELY GRAPHIC

Spoiler: I'm warning you man!

Spoiler: Bloody! continue at your own risk!

Shouldn't that be banned? Animals should be killed in a humane way, that is just horribly cruel. Pretty sure that can't happen within the US thanks to our laws against evil things like that.

Wrong [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humane_Slaughter_Act#Content_of_the_Humane_Slaughter_Act]:

Spoiler: Kosher Slaughterhouse in Iowa (graphic)

Personally, I don't really care if my hamburger suffered before it died.

Also, animals don't live for five minutes after their throats are cut, unless the slaughterhouse workers aren't doing their jobs properly. Death isn't instant, but there's a pretty big difference between 1-3 minutes (which is normal if you cut both carotid arteries, both jugular veins and the trachea) and 5 minutes, which the Halaal video claims.

For instance, the Kosher video I linked above is only 3 minutes long, and they show one cow in particular (a white one) take about a minute to go down to the ground. I guess if you care about the well being of cows (I don't) or you didn't realize that a living thing had to become a dead thing to put your burger on the table (I do) then it might be shocking, but that cow still took less than two minutes to die. Supposedly when animals are cut properly they go unconscious fairly instantly (unlike the video I posted above).

Regardless, the five minutes mentioned in the Halaal video is either hyperbole or someone not doing their job properly.

Well then, seems we need to amend the laws to fix the problem.

I've heard certain different ways about exactly what Halaal is. Do you actually know how they're killed?

It's pretty goddamn brutal.
I don't approve of it myself and would never want to touch the stuff.

Spoiler: EXTREMELY GRAPHIC

Spoiler: I'm warning you man!

Spoiler: Bloody! continue at your own risk!

Shouldn't that be banned? Animals should be killed in a humane way, that is just horribly cruel. Pretty sure that can't happen within the US thanks to our laws against evil things like that.

That's rather naive. Our laws are set up so that the greatest number of people are happy with the least oppression towards minorities (ideally). People don't care about making animals happy nearly as much as they are people, and the focus is certainly not what is "evil".

If you know there is a more humane way to do something but refuse to do it that is evil. Animal suffering should be kept to an absolute minimum regardless of what religion says.

 

[Commissar Sae]

I've heard certain different ways about exactly what Halaal is. Do you actually know how they're killed?

It's pretty goddamn brutal.
I don't approve of it myself and would never want to touch the stuff.

Spoiler: EXTREMELY GRAPHIC

Spoiler: I'm warning you man!

Spoiler: Bloody! continue at your own risk!

Shouldn't that be banned? Animals should be killed in a humane way, that is just horribly cruel. Pretty sure that can't happen within the US thanks to our laws against evil things like that.

Like I said, that's how all animals are killed. The "we are humane to our animals and only kill them in a way that they feel no pain" is a bullshit lie that people swallow so they feel better about eating said animals. Lambs are slaughtered the exact same way (throat slit and bled out) the whole world over. If you ever had lamb, that is how it died. And honestly, a slit throat is a pretty humane way to die compared to some of the stuff all us good non-religious people put animals through. I've seen videos of ducks beaten to death against walls because they didn't stay sedately in the execution machine.

The process of slaughtering animals for human consumption is a brutal business. Also the life of the animal should be more important than just the way it died. Most Halal and Kosher animals don't go through the same factory farming process, and so the animal will generally not have lead the miserable existence of its non-religiously raised peers.

All this coming from a meat-eating agnostic who has closer ties to Buddhism than any religion of the book.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I have a friend who dated a Muslim girl for quite a while. From what I understand, family pressure ended that. I don't know how much truth there is in that, but I do know she's married to a muslim fella now. I've met him.

 

[Kathinka]

don't listen to the ill-informed xenophobes going all "uhh you'll have to convert! she'll not allow any sort of intimacy! she'll only eat halal!".

it really depends on how much she's into the whole religion thing. i'm jewish for example, but it has no practical aplication in my daily life, i don't obey to any of the dietary or social laws of the faith. many muslim girls i know are the same and absolutely don't care about dating non-muslim guys or eating haram food.

tl;dr: it can't be answered here generally, it really depends on how strict she is with the religion. could be that it has no practical implications in your relationship at all.

 

[CyborgGinger]

This has been a pretty mixed bag of responses for the OT. Some people are bang on, but the amount of misinformation here is boggling.

OT: Wikipedia is your friend - that's your first start. Get a general overview of Islam and what it means to be a Muslim.

I'm coming up to 3 years of dating a Turkish girl (and have lived in Turkey for the past year), so know her and her family pretty well. I've come up against a lot of bullshit, quite frankly.

I could just lay out all my advice here, but quite honestly I'm not in the mood to bang out a 5000 word essay on my keyboard for you; because that's what it would take.

All people who identify themselves with a religion label come in a scale of 1 (it's just a label and they kinda enjoy the holidays) to 10 (they're full on crazies).

When I met my girlfriend, she was kinda hovering at around 6-7 (though from the way she spoke I THOUGHT she was more of a 3-4). 3 years on and she's like a 1-2 on the scale now. I've not talked her out of her religion, just through general discussions (and her seeing my home country, the UK) she's kinda let her mind open much more than it was before she met me and is seeing the contradictions and bullshit that she was actively ignorant too before.

So... where does your girl sit on that scale? More importantly, where do her family sit?

I've had to overcome a lot of prejudice from certain elements of my girlfriend's family. Her grandparents (who, admittedly, love me to bits as a human being) just wish I was a Muslim, because if I marry their granddaughter as is, I'm committing - at a minimum - my girlfriend to hell, possibly even the rest of the family.

Her dad - again, really likes me as a human - has given every all sorts of trouble over my non-Muslim status.

These people are pretty mild and "modern". If your girl's family are worse, just really, take my advice and leave well alone, it's not worth the trouble.

 

[MetalMagpie]

It entirely depends how conservative her family are. You're best off asking her about it.

But, as already mentioned, she is very unlikely to eat pork or drink alcohol. And when dating any religious person, it's a good idea not to push the physical intimacy too far too fast, at least until you establish where she perceives the boundaries to be.

 

[MetalMagpie]

I've heard certain different ways about exactly what Halaal is. Do you actually know how they're killed?

As far as I'm aware, Halal meat is just like normal meat only it has had all (or as much as possible) the blood drained from it. I think nowadays this can usually be done at any time after the animal is dead, I never thought it was a way in which the animal had to be killed.

The butcher's down my road has a machine (I've never seen them use it) labelled 'Halal-3000' so that makes me pretty sure it's something that is usually done after the animal is dead. But I may be wrong.

Halal meat is slaughtered using a method called Dhabihah, which involves making a single deep incision across the throat with a sharp blade. The meat is then drained of blood as much as possible. There are various other requirements as well, including prayers that need to be said, but those are the main points.

Dhabihah is controversial because the jugular veins are cut (meaning the animal bleeds out very quickly) but the spinal cord isn't severed (meaning the animal can continue feeling pain until it dies). Severing the spinal cord is not permitted because the animal must die of blood loss to meet the conditions of Dhabihah. For the same reason, using bolt-guns to stun animals before slaughter (as is normally the case in the West) is also not allowed as bolt-guns have a chance of killing the animal outright. Animals that are already dead before their throats are cut are considered to be carrion (which Muslims are forbidden from eating).

Interesting side note: Muslims can usually eat kosher meat, but Jews can't normally eat halal meat, because of slight differences in the requirements. The actual method of slaughter is pretty much the same.

 

[FFP2]

All in all, it just depends what kind of religious person she is. If she's only Muslim because her family is then you shouldn't have a problem. If she actually believes in her faith then you're gonna have a hard time.

Oh. and don't listen to the people that say that the Muslim religion degrades women by forcing them to wear a burka/hijaab or shit like that; the woman chooses if she wants to wear it or not.

 

[Kargathia]

Pretty horrific film. What's the reason for solely eating halal meat?

I'm not the most knowledgeable on the subject but from what I know,
It's because the meat is "impure" and killing the animal in this fashion "purifies it" or something along those lines. An extremely simplified response would be because it's just part of their religion.

Blood is considered impure, so the animal must be drained before consumption. It actually has practical roots in that it stems from warm climates, where meat would go bad much quicker, especially when still bloody.
The aversion from pork also stems from this, as pork has a decent chance of containing worms that are only killed by thoroughly heating it - something that was quite a bit harder in 500BC.

 

[YoungMan]

She's INDIAN and a Muslim? Are you sure she isn't from Pakistan?
Personally I think you SHOULD talk to her about religion and politics. If you start dating they're going to come up eventually anyway, and it could also be a good way of determining just HOW religious she/her family is. It is entirely possible that she is very secularized, but her parents are very religious. You could always look Islam up in any book on religion/on Wikipedia, but in general I'll just give you some bullet points:

- They don't eat pork, like ever...

- They pray 3 times a day.(I think)

- They have a fast at the start of the Muslim New Year where they don't eat while the sun is up.

- They are usually Very faithful, so I'd be careful when talking about religion. I'm not telling you to avoid it the topic completely, just try to not say things along the lines of "Since there's no God..." just... just have tact.

Good luck! I hope it turns out for the best!

Just to say you should have a look at Indias politics because theres a lot of division among the different ethnic groups.

 

[john_alexander]

Read the Qu'ran - you should probably do that anyway, but especially if you are dating a Muslim. If she is truly dedicated to her faith, there are some disturbing things you need to know. The Qu'ran demands that faithful Muslim's lie to non-Muslims in order to advance the goals of Islam being first among them.

I'm not saying she will, but that might hurt the trust in your relationship, which is never a good start. Just... Yeah. Dating a Muslim can be difficult if she really is hardcore in her faith. Moderate Muslim's are no more difficult to date than any other religious type.

 

[FFP2]

Oh. and don't listen to the people that say that the Muslim religion degrades women by forcing them to wear a burka/hijaab or shit like that; the woman chooses if she wants to wear it or not.

But that isn't even true. Many Muslim women are forced to wear them.

Not by their religion though. They usually wear it to bring respect to their family/not embarrass them.

Can I just say something? Can we please respect other people's religion even if we don't agree with it? Most of the comments are quite respectful... But some of them are really fucked up.

Edit- This guy said what I did much more eloquently:

Forced by people around them. Forced by culture. Maybe even forced by local interpretation of the religion or bullying imams. But not forced by the religion as a whole.

 

[Jacco]

Ok, I got a question. This girl and I have been friends for a really long time and I think we're both crushing on each other, so I'm planning to ask her out. The only real catch is that she's Indian and a Muslim, I'm not, and I've never really had any contact with Muslims because there's not many where I live (I have made sure she's Muslim, not Hindu). Are there anything specifics I need to know about dating one? I really don't wannna make a bad impression early on, especially to her family, by doing something they'd think was disprespectful. I know to stear clear of politics and a lot of current events near her family (even though me and her talk politics all the time, the different perspective is part of why I like her) but I don't know about basics like customs and courtesies. Any help from my fellow Escapists is highly appreciated, especially if you've had experience with this sort of stuff.

very respectfully,
sharkeyes

If the family is fairly traditional, you'll need to ask the father for permission to date (or even see her). I made that mistake once and the father threatened me with violence (not that i was particularly scared or anything). It caused a whole mess of problems for about a month before I just said fuck it and moved on.

If they are more modern, then that would be something you would need to talk to her about. Assuming they aren't traditional and require you to be muslim, they can't and won't expect you to know everything about their religion/culture and thus will explain it when it is relevant.