Poll: Religious groups allowed to discriminate

[cobra_ky]

I'm all for someone not allowing certain actions to be in a particular organization. Gay people thinking they has the golden tickets for the ride to Christians heaven, for instance. Let a group of religious zealots think whatever the hell they want. What really annoys me more is the weakness that political correctness forces upon people, it's quite sickening. I'll be damned if I act politically correct and allow myself to be forced to let someone else think for me! Think for yourself and stop being such a damn wussy when it comes to getting offended.

PC breeds weakness...

did you read the article? we're talking about equal hiring practices for jobs that don't require religious beliefs, not forcing those beliefs to be politically correct.

 

[Shaoken]

I'm all for someone not allowing certain actions to be in a particular organization. Gay people thinking they has the golden tickets for the ride to Christians heaven, for instance. Let a group of religious zealots think whatever the hell they want. What really annoys me more is the weakness that political correctness forces upon people, it's quite sickening. I'll be damned if I act politically correct and allow myself to be forced to let someone else think for me! Think for yourself and stop being such a damn wussy when it comes to getting offended.

PC breeds weakness...

Pile on.

You're an idiot and you should have read the bloody topic before going on a rant about something completely irrelevant. If you feel strongly about this go make a topic on Political Correctness. I'll come over and post my thoughts, and then we'll cook smores and throw fireworks into a huge bonfire.

 

[whycantibelinus]

I like how the word "discriminate" is used openly as a word for every single thing people disagree with these days.

Until gays are being beaten on a daily basis, killed on many occassions, and barred from eating at a pub... THEN we can use the term.

THIS is just people disagreeing over homosexuality.

I agree with you Arsen. Not that I am anti-gay or anything, but I do feel that the gay community (as a whole, not individually) are doing exactly what they claim to "hate" which is forcing their beliefs on other people.

EDIT: Also why in the world are they so interested in being in groups that don't approve of homosexuals? If there was a group that hated white males I most certainly would not try to get them to let me join. I would just call them ignorant, flip them the bird, and leave them be.

 

[Cakes]

I like how the word "discriminate" is used openly as a word for every single thing people disagree with these days.

Until gays are being beaten on a daily basis, killed on many occassions, and barred from eating at a pub... THEN we can use the term.

THIS is just people disagreeing over homosexuality.

I agree with you Arsen. Not that I am anti-gay or anything, but I do feel that the gay community (as a whole, not individually) are doing exactly what they claim to "hate" which is forcing their beliefs on other people.

Wanting equal rights isn't quite the same as forcing your beliefs on someone.

 

[whycantibelinus]

I like how the word "discriminate" is used openly as a word for every single thing people disagree with these days.

Until gays are being beaten on a daily basis, killed on many occassions, and barred from eating at a pub... THEN we can use the term.

THIS is just people disagreeing over homosexuality.

I agree with you Arsen. Not that I am anti-gay or anything, but I do feel that the gay community (as a whole, not individually) are doing exactly what they claim to "hate" which is forcing their beliefs on other people.

Wanting equal rights isn't quite the same as forcing your beliefs on someone.

I wasn't talking about rights, I was talking about forcing people to change their religious beliefs because you feel like that religion doesn't respect your lifestyle. Buddhism traditionally is vegan and does not agree with killing animals at all, but what if I'm a butcher? Should I do everything I can to get them to start killing animals for food just because I don't agree with their beliefs?

 

[Amoreyna]

Just to spell it out; this is not about churches being allowed to deny membership to gays or single mothers.

This is about Religious businesses being legally allowed to not give a job to a person because they're gay or a single-parent.

People seem to be missing this point.

And religious businesses should be allowed to operate on the same basis as their churches, whether you agree with the faith or not. There is no inherent right to a job, that's ridiculous. Working is not a right, it's a privlage, pure and simple. You don't have a right to demand to work anywhere you want, you have the opportunity to apply for and compete for any job you would like to have whether you are qualified or not. You may not get it, but you are allowed to apply.

I hate to say it, but South Park had a really good episode that addressed this kind of issue several years ago in the episode "Cripple Fight". Big Gay Al was forced to leave scouts once it was discovered that he was gay. At the end of the episode he and the scouts ended up in court where it was ruled that he should be let back into scouts and that the scouts' leaders should be demoralized in stocks. Big Gay Al said no, that this was not the way he wanted things. That he believed that the scouts' leaders were doing what they believed was right and they had every right to do that because it was a private organization.

The fact of the matter is, private businesses regardless if they are faith based of not have the right to hire as they see fit.

And I'd like to tell that smug spokeswoman in the article that religious schools require all staff to share that religion because they are supposed to be examples of that religion's morals, values and beliefs. Everyone from the principal to the janitor. There is a reason for it.

 

[Firia]

This is a hard one for me.

I'm gay [woman], but have very heavy stark opinions on organized religion. I know that when I was a kid, the religion I was a part of would shun sinners, but allow them to attend "church/temple/meetings." They were allowed to worship, and pray for forgiveness, but they were expunged from the community.

Part of the reason why I chose to give it up as I reached further into my teens had to do with a woman smoking cigerettes, and thus being shunned as a result (drugs of any kind are a sin). I spoke with her at a bowling ally (I was like, 14 or something, over 10 years ago), and she was afraid for me. Afraid that someone in the community would see me acknowleding her, and I'd be punished or shunned (or something) as a result, if they saw.

Anyway, I'm running on a tangent. My point is, even my most screwed up religious experience allows sinners and expelled people from the community to practice.

 

[Amoreyna]

You are depriving them of the right to marriage... why is it not as higher moral stake? You just act as if they are below human beings, you make me sick.

What you believe is that you should have rights that other HUMAN BEINGS should not. That is the only thing that's wrong here.

You are a bigot, accept it, you are trying to deny people rights based on a difference between you and them that they cannot control.

Do you really think if it was a choice anyone would choose to be gay? Wouldn't that be the stupidest thing ever?

Besides, explain how it is being forced down your throat, what is it that Gay people are doing that directly affects your life? Nothing. So what's your fucking problem. Just grow up and accept that there are people in the world who, for a reason completely out of their control, are Gay, now why would you deny them a right just to cater to a ridiculous notion of superiority?

Marriage is not a right. Just like working, driving and abortions are not rights - they are privlages. These are all life choices that may or may not be allowed in the country you choose to reside in.

The person you are responding to never said that he wished that gays be treated as less then human beings. He stated that he did not condone the idea of homosexuality but did not discriminate against those who are. Then, you being the tolerant individual you are, turned around and called him a bigot. Pretty much the pot calling the kettle black.

I also don't understand why everyone demands that a joining of two people be called marriage. This is a religious term, andd I would think that those who feel discriminated against by these very religious organizations would not want to use the term. Civil union would be more correct, but I suppose people feel left out if it's not called marriage. There are states already that support same sex civil unions, in fact I have a cousin who just entered one with her partner not to long ago. More and more the gay right's movement seems to be demanding inclusion into everything, regardless if they have a right to or not, instead of just equal rights with everyone else, which is where the original article for this thread suggests were heading. Screw everyone else's rights - they don't completely agree with us even though they're tolerant, let's demonize them some more.

BTW, I have NEVER been to a job interview where my sexual preferences have been questioned - regardless if it's a federal job or one being offered by a church. Honestly, most places seem to view it as a personal matter and as long as you are not being asked to be a role model of the religious insitution that you are working for, then fine. My mother works for a Catholic school and she has told me that they have had students who had gay parents, which suprises many people. Most religious insitutions aren't as bigoted as many people seem to think they are.

 

[Shaoken]

I also don't understand why everyone demands that a joining of two people be called marriage. This is a religious term,

I believe the government would like to have a word with you. Them and their marriage certificates.

This arguement is bogus; no one religion can claim sole ownership of the concept of marriage, and if it was really a religious term then they could stop athiests and agnostics from getting married.

andd I would think that those who feel discriminated against by these very religious organizations would not want to use the term.

You would be wrong. Because of what marriage means in our society today.

Civil union would be more correct, but I suppose people feel left out if it's not called marriage.

They want equal rights. And if you call it a different name, then it's no equal.

Plus, if you made it a different term (civil unions) then that means it can be treated as a seperate entity. So the government could pass legislation that prevents gay couples from being able to adopt, and straight couples would be unaffected. Whereas if Gay marriage is legalised then you can't pull off such back-door descrimination

More and more the gay right's movement seems to be demanding inclusion into everything, regardless if they have a right to or not, instead of just equal rights with everyone else, which is where the original article for this thread suggests were heading.

They want equal rights. Just because you don't think they deserve it doesn't mean they don't deserve them.

And incidently, how do you feel about the discrimination against single mothers?

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Should they be allowed to bar gay people or single mothers from working for them? NO

Can they disagree with homosexuality? Yes

If they are a private organization that is not supported by government funds, then they can discriminate all they want, at least in the USA. It may not be something we all agree with, but people have their rights to free speech, even when it's an opinion we don't care for.

Personally, I am religious and think that gay people are just that: people. However, I do think homosexuality is a sin, so I don't have to condone it. I have no problem with the people, just the behavior.

EDIT: Before anyone starts flaming, be aware of the hypocrisy of forcing your 'open mindedness' on someone because you don't agree with their opinions, no matter how closed minded they may seem. I know far too many people who do this.

 

[Captain_Caveman]

Jeebus how can 73% of ppl say no? seriously?

people have been so pussified by P.C. that they see the word " discriminate " and reflex straight into BAD!

remember something called RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. it means people can practice it however they want AS LONG AS THEY AREN'T HURTING ANYONE. and excluding someone IS NOT HURTING THEM.

 

[Shaoken]

Jeebus how can 73% of ppl say no? seriously?

people have been so pussified by P.C. that they see the word " discriminate " and reflex straight into BAD!

remember something called RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. it means people can practice it however they want AS LONG AS THEY AREN'T HURTING ANYONE. and excluding someone IS NOT HURTING THEM.

Because businesses are required to obey the law. A church wants to refuse Gay people from entering the building? Perfectly fine. A religious organisation refusing a single mother for a job she's qualified for? Not okay.

Religion and Business do not mix well, so there's no reason to treat a religious business any differently than a non-religious business.

 

[Semitendon]

No, religious people who disagree with the homosexual lifestyle should not be forced to cater to them.

Let's be honest for a minute. The only reason a homosexual would want to work for a church orginization that disagrees with their lifestyle, is so that they can anger and upset that church's people. There are plenty of charities and orginizations that do the exact same thing that church sponsored orginizations do. So, other than stuffing homosexuality down the throats of people who disagree with that lifestyle, this serves NO purpose.

This is one of my biggest complaints about homosexuality. The overwhelming desire by some homosexuals ( not all, mind you) to force their lifestyle on your beliefs/buisness's/ and life.

If homosexuality really was just a sexual preference, than why the need to force people to acknowledge it? There are many kinds of sexual preferences and lifestyles, i.e. shoe fetish, bondage, S & M, food fetish, and others, why is it that homosexuality is the only group that blatantly advertises their preference?

If you are a homosexual, fine. But, I don't want to hear about it. I don't want to hear about anyone else's preferences either. I don't want to hear a heterosexual person tell me about their sex life. If a heterosexual person walked up to me and said " I love to lick shoes while having sex" or wore a T-shirt that said something along those lines, or had a bumper sticker that announced to the world that they had a shoe fetish, I wouldn't want to know about it. It would infringe on my rights to have this sexual behavior shoved in my face.

If I ask you about your sex life, fine. ( And actually, I have done this with a homosexual friend of mine) My asking is my decision, and your telling me, is your decision.

It is amazing to me how many people complain about religious people spreading their views on life, which generally does not amount to anything more than an opinion on the world, but when a homosexual openly flaunts their sex life, it's no problem.

 

[LockHeart]

This strikes me as similar to the case here in Britain, in which it was ruled that the British National Party couldn't stop minority groups from joining - who the hell would want to?!