Poll: Required Enlistment
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(from the United States) This is our country,OURS,And I think we should defend it. We live here. We'll destroy anyone that threatens us.
That year of service sounds like a good idea,because when we go to war,we'll already have some expierience under our belt after the draft and when the real training comes.
The pressure will not be as heavy. We'll get through training faster And more solders for each individual branch of our armed forces,and it makes everyones job in the military alot easier with so many more people to work with. And when you got a small army to deal with anything,Well you feel alot better.
Everybody gets backup.
That year of service sounds like a good idea,because when we go to war,we'll already have some expierience under our belt after the draft and when the real training comes.
The pressure will not be as heavy. We'll get through training faster And more solders for each individual branch of our armed forces,and it makes everyones job in the military alot easier with so many more people to work with. And when you got a small army to deal with anything,Well you feel alot better.
Everybody gets backup.
It seems to me like it'd be a form of government-mandated slavery. Don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing the treatment of soldiers to the treatment of slaves in the colonial era, but more the principle behind it. Why should the government have the right to decide my moral and ethical actions - especially since the only reason of my existence in the country is due entirely to chance?
As with anything, it's personal. People are people, and no matter which country they're born in, they shouldn't have to be forced to feel a patriotic connection to the place in which they live. They had no choice to be born there, after all.
Furthermore, I doubt that an armed force comprised of conscripts will ever reach the level of discipline and professionalism that a force comprised of volunteers will reach. Nobody wants to fight with people who don't want to be there in the first place.
As with anything, it's personal. People are people, and no matter which country they're born in, they shouldn't have to be forced to feel a patriotic connection to the place in which they live. They had no choice to be born there, after all.
Furthermore, I doubt that an armed force comprised of conscripts will ever reach the level of discipline and professionalism that a force comprised of volunteers will reach. Nobody wants to fight with people who don't want to be there in the first place.
We think much alike, my friend.TheRightToArmBears said:
Not only for the above reasons, but also because its against my personal values to be in the middle of any kind of conflict.
I'm in favor of a 1 year period of maditory military service for Domestic Service Only upon turning 18. However people should not be forced to go overseas unless they volunteer for it ala the Canadian Model of Conscription in WW2. I honestly think that this would have a good effect on the people of a nation teaching them some skills, discipline and respect before sending them out into the world
I really think it should be required unless you're going to college. Still, the army will pay for college, so it also encourages people who can't always pay to sign up so they can get into a better college. The Military would help instill exactly the types of virtues that a lot of people are missing, and I think that for the most part it wouldn't hurt anybody. Most people don't understand, but the Military isn't all killing on the front lines, there is a lot more to it than that, and I believe that the ratio to servicemen to combat personnel is 2 to 1, so even then you're more likely to be away from any sort of combat situations at all.
Conscription? It would work on a minor scale. On a whole-country scale many people wouldn't like it.
Pragmatically, the whole idea of national service does seem unfair to those whom don't want to spend time in the military. Now, i am interested in military affairs, and when watching movies and TV series' i like mentally naming each piece of military hardware i see. But i would not want to involved in national service, dispite my interest in it. Whom would it apply too? In Finland it seems that even university students have to do it. I'm a university student and i would hate to spend time doing enforced physical exersize and having every aspect of my life controlled. The argument is that people need self-disipline, but I don't need self-disipline, i don't need military training to become a better person. I have enough self dispiline to do 4 hours of revision a day for my exams in order to get into university, me and hunderds of thounsands of other university students don't need to be trained to "become better people", its a ridiculous notion. Why does instilling military values seem better than say, instilling academic and community values? Frankly i think community and academic values are a heck of a lot better than military values.
As for those whom are not in formal education, work or training i don't think its an entirely good idea to force them into military training. The military, i think, would prefer to train volinteers whom by their own free will decided they want to be there. After all, in these current times they are a good many high-school leavers whom are unemployed and trying to find jobs and apprenticeships, not all of them want to have to spend a year of their young lives in the army when they could otherwise be trying to find jobs. Sure, not all them will bother trying to find jobs but finacial pressure will eventually force them to sign on at the Job Centre. They get jobs eventually.
At the heart of this issue, i think it strikes me as fundimentally unfair that adults are forced into doing something which they do not willfully want to do. Imagine if the government made it a law that everyone had to spend a year working for a charity. Charity's a good thing,
in the same way that the military improving your character could be, but forcing people into either charity or the armed services is not a morally good thing. I also think this kind of issue serves to seperate those whom truely believe in liberal values and those who only think they do.
As for those whom are not in formal education, work or training i don't think its an entirely good idea to force them into military training. The military, i think, would prefer to train volinteers whom by their own free will decided they want to be there. After all, in these current times they are a good many high-school leavers whom are unemployed and trying to find jobs and apprenticeships, not all of them want to have to spend a year of their young lives in the army when they could otherwise be trying to find jobs. Sure, not all them will bother trying to find jobs but finacial pressure will eventually force them to sign on at the Job Centre. They get jobs eventually.
At the heart of this issue, i think it strikes me as fundimentally unfair that adults are forced into doing something which they do not willfully want to do. Imagine if the government made it a law that everyone had to spend a year working for a charity. Charity's a good thing,
in the same way that the military improving your character could be, but forcing people into either charity or the armed services is not a morally good thing. I also think this kind of issue serves to seperate those whom truely believe in liberal values and those who only think they do.
Wouldn't you also be showing muggers etc. how to be better at their job? Not everyone who completes their training is going to use it for 'good'.Cpt_Oblivious said:
OT: Here are some facts I turned up:
$117m was spent in august of 2009 to fix psychological problems people sustained while serving.
"They suffer from a variety of psychological problems including nightmares, flashbacks, paranoia and irrational anger, and often try to self-medicate with alcohol and drugs before seeking professional help."
"British veterans were up to three times more likely to commit suicide than the rest of the population."
"Alcohol abuse is another growing problem, with the number of US soldiers who are alcoholic or binge-drinkers nearly doubling in the past six years. Figures suggest that 11 soldiers per "1,000 suffered from alcohol abuse problems in the first half of 2009."
Of those interviewed, 25 per cent said they had encountered difficulties during their time in the Armed Forces, such as mental health problems or alcohol abuse, which had continued after discharge."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/6067128/US-army-spends-117m-on-soldiers-psychological-resilience.html
Just found on a quick google search, but there are loads out there. Would you really want to force this on un-willing people?
I think it is a horrible idea for several reasons.
"EDIT 3: I must say that, while I do the advantages, I would not want a person beside me in combat who didn't want to be there. . ."
This^
America is a nation based on the ideals of freedom, any required service in anything is an insult to all that america stands for.
Also, I believe that any required involvement demeans those that choose to serve. If military sevice became a requirement, then being in the military would not be as deserving of respect as it is now. This could lead to repeats of how viatnam vets were treated, especially with america being engaged in several controversial wars.
"EDIT 3: I must say that, while I do the advantages, I would not want a person beside me in combat who didn't want to be there. . ."
This^
America is a nation based on the ideals of freedom, any required service in anything is an insult to all that america stands for.
Also, I believe that any required involvement demeans those that choose to serve. If military sevice became a requirement, then being in the military would not be as deserving of respect as it is now. This could lead to repeats of how viatnam vets were treated, especially with america being engaged in several controversial wars.
Fffffuck no. Because for one thing, I don't like the military, and I don't think it'd be "good" for me to be forced to go risk my fucking life. People ae only forced to do things here when they are doing something bad, i.e., community service, jail-time, forced to die from lethal injection..
Also, I think that would impede upon certain rights, having EVERYBODY shipped off to war for a year.
As other people have said as well, there'd be a lot of people who don't want to be there, the army's quality would go down the shitter, blah blah blah.. So yeah.
Besides, isn't the U.S.'s army the most technologically advanced or some shit? Or so I thought.
Also, I think that would impede upon certain rights, having EVERYBODY shipped off to war for a year.
As other people have said as well, there'd be a lot of people who don't want to be there, the army's quality would go down the shitter, blah blah blah.. So yeah.
Besides, isn't the U.S.'s army the most technologically advanced or some shit? Or so I thought.
I'm against it simply because if I was in the armed forces for even a year, that is a large window for our government to say "Here is a destabilized region, lets send more troops." If Canada goes to war, I want to be deployed to a certain degree on my terms. I'm not going to die prematurely for a "war on terror"...
Now if Russia said "F*ck it, we're taking over Northern Canada." then yes, I would join up. I'm not a pacifist but I'm not eager for war.
I wouldn't mind the training as I know it builds great character but I've been raised by a very disciplined family and am not nearly as bad as the generation behind me for respect. So, no. I would not support it here. Or if it did become law, I would argue that these "reserve" troops should never be deployed until the situation demands it.
Now if Russia said "F*ck it, we're taking over Northern Canada." then yes, I would join up. I'm not a pacifist but I'm not eager for war.
I wouldn't mind the training as I know it builds great character but I've been raised by a very disciplined family and am not nearly as bad as the generation behind me for respect. So, no. I would not support it here. Or if it did become law, I would argue that these "reserve" troops should never be deployed until the situation demands it.
We'd have emphasis on defence in training. You can't defend someone and steal their stuff can you?Blazing Steel said:
Well, first of all, i'm not an american, but the country i live in does not require service in the military. It did until a few years ago, but fortunately for me that changed.
As you can probably guess from that, i am against compulsory military service. Why? Oh man, so many reasons, where do i even start? In no particular order(Some of these were already mentioned by other people.):
It wastes money. Training people that don't want to be there in the first place will never give results as good as training people that volunteered.
It's not necessary. Todays wars are not fought like the wars of the past century. The days of conscript armies and masses of infantry have come and gone. Sending large numbers of conscripts agains professional soldiers will just end up in a massacre.
Therefore another reason: conscripts will never be able to stand up to professional soldiers.
If the situation is so desperate that a country needs to conscript it's civilian population in order to defend itself, then that country has probably just lost the war anyway, and all this will acomplish will be more waste of life.
It would force some people into doing something that stands against their moral standards and convictions. Lets face in the army, at one point or another, you are tought to kill. Some people have strong feelings about that, for whatever reason. (Myself being one of them.) I don't think it's ever justified to force people to learn how to take another human life.
Some people just aren't "cut out" for army life. I honestly don't think everyone can past even basic training. And i don't mean people that have serious health problems either. I actually think that there are regular people with no particular dissabilities, that can't cut it. To those people it would just be a period of "torture" before being dropped out since they can't take it. I don't see the point in making someones life hell for a period of time, for no gain in the end.
If someone is recruited against his will, then that person will be virtually robbed of a part of his life. There are people that just want to go to university, or get a job... you know, just LIVE their lives, not be stuck in some crappy army for a year or two. And maybe those people don't care about what the army has to teach (courage, valor, discipline, blablabla). So to them it's just a period of life wasted. Is someone going to give them that year of their lives back? Don't think so.
I think i'm just going to stop here.
Oh yeah, and also: "but i dont wanna go!"
I think it's bad idea and in no way would i want to be drafted. If they tried, i'd just dodge it however i could.
As you can probably guess from that, i am against compulsory military service. Why? Oh man, so many reasons, where do i even start? In no particular order(Some of these were already mentioned by other people.):
It wastes money. Training people that don't want to be there in the first place will never give results as good as training people that volunteered.
It's not necessary. Todays wars are not fought like the wars of the past century. The days of conscript armies and masses of infantry have come and gone. Sending large numbers of conscripts agains professional soldiers will just end up in a massacre.
Therefore another reason: conscripts will never be able to stand up to professional soldiers.
If the situation is so desperate that a country needs to conscript it's civilian population in order to defend itself, then that country has probably just lost the war anyway, and all this will acomplish will be more waste of life.
It would force some people into doing something that stands against their moral standards and convictions. Lets face in the army, at one point or another, you are tought to kill. Some people have strong feelings about that, for whatever reason. (Myself being one of them.) I don't think it's ever justified to force people to learn how to take another human life.
Some people just aren't "cut out" for army life. I honestly don't think everyone can past even basic training. And i don't mean people that have serious health problems either. I actually think that there are regular people with no particular dissabilities, that can't cut it. To those people it would just be a period of "torture" before being dropped out since they can't take it. I don't see the point in making someones life hell for a period of time, for no gain in the end.
If someone is recruited against his will, then that person will be virtually robbed of a part of his life. There are people that just want to go to university, or get a job... you know, just LIVE their lives, not be stuck in some crappy army for a year or two. And maybe those people don't care about what the army has to teach (courage, valor, discipline, blablabla). So to them it's just a period of life wasted. Is someone going to give them that year of their lives back? Don't think so.
I think i'm just going to stop here.
Oh yeah, and also: "but i dont wanna go!"
I think it's bad idea and in no way would i want to be drafted. If they tried, i'd just dodge it however i could.