Poll: Research on the Police has shown....

[Disgruntled_peasant]

I'm always amased at these arguments, especially the type that suggest america would fall apart under a wave of crime if guns were made illigal.

I live in england, we cope just fine without the power to blow each others heads off, and i'd much rather face a mugger armed with a knife than one with a handgun- regardless of how I myself am armed.

 

[David VanDusen]

Precisely! This is what Canada does actually. Criminals don't stand a chance against citizens who can use guns better than they can.

Honestly, I didn't really know how the process worked for Candians and learning this makes me happy. I wish that there was a greater focus on gun safety and traning here over "Oh my god burn them all!"

It's probably fitting to know that Fast Food, Tobacco, Alcohol, and Cars kill more Americans each year that guns. By and large, it seems that the population as a whole is just under-educated.

 

[theonecookie]

Giving everybody a gun really doesn't change anything ,in fact the only thing it changes is that more people get shot because when somebody comes to rob your house which they will the odds are he'll have a gun because odds are you have a gun

And don't give me that bullshit that if nobody has a gun the only people with guns will be criminals because if civilians don't have guns then criminals won't have them ,why because they don't need them to commit crimes any more

TLR guns don't lower the rate of crimes but they do raise the fatality rate of crimes

 

[jboking]

In the perfect version of America, everyone should have to serve 2 years in the military and should get to keep their rifle afterwords. I feel that crime would drop significantly. Though, that is just an assumption.

Also, while I think more obligated police would help, I would not expect a police officer to, out of duty, protect my life over his own unless he was ordered to do so. It does create a superficial issue of whether a cop can even shoot at a civilian who is shooting at another civilian, though. To protect one civilians life, you would have to endanger another's. Not a serious argument, just a small thing I thought about.

 

[David VanDusen]

Oh boy, gun control debate!

Hide yo kids, people, 'cuz it's flame on time here!

And on the issue of armed citizens: No thank you. The homicide rate over here is 0.6 per capita as opposed to the US's 5 point something. We're good, thanks.

I would say that you clearly didn't see the message. If your crime rate is that low then by all means keep doing what you're doing. However, I'm talking about the US Constituion and the problem with the Laws in my country. I'm not suggesting that we go to wherever you are (which you failed to mention) and play in your stand box.

I'm always amased at these arguments, especially the type that suggest america would fall apart under a wave of crime if guns were made illigal.

I live in england, we cope just fine without the power to blow each others heads off, and i'd much rather face a mugger armed with a knife than one with a handgun- regardless of how I myself am armed.

The gentlemen in this video might not agree with you considering, but it is all a matter of "chance" really. http://youtu.be/CZJkk7pkr_U

 

[David VanDusen]

Giving everybody a gun really doesn't change anything ,in fact the only thing it changes is that more people get shot because when somebody comes to rob your house which they will the odds are he'll have a gun because odds are you have a gun

And don't give me that bullshit that if nobody has a gun the only people with guns will be criminals because if civilians don't have guns then criminals won't have them ,why because they don't need them to commit crimes any more

TLR guns don't lower the rate of crimes but they do raise the fatality rate of crimes

I know this might be hard for you but if you ever get the change go to this place... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate and then take a few moments to check out the "Gun Laws" in some of the countries with double the homicide rates per capita than the US.

 

[demoman_chaos]

We just need more educated people. A smart person knows to always keep the barrel pointed in a safe direction (in the hunting training course I had to take back 10 years ago they said that more than rednecks talk about Nascar and Jesus). Before buying a gun, they should make you take a quick test to make sure you know how to be safe with a killing tool. A proper licensing system would be good, but most people would be up in arms about it. A simple 10 question exam to make sure you are at least competent would keep a lot of idiots from doing stupid things.

 

[Da Orky Man]

Anyway, gun control is good and misleading right-wing propaganda is bad. There are no cited sources because only right-wing pro-gun organizations talk about this "not legally obligated to protect us", but that would give away the game.

Gun control is good right until you try to being up statistics backing that fact. At which point you find out that when gun control is passed you find out there is no decline in gun violence levels or that any decline in gun violence is mirrored by a general decline in violence levels, or that other forms of violence replace violence with guns, and are no less lethal. Whereas after the McDonald decision and legalization of handguns in Chicago there was an unprecedented decline in violence rates which was not accompanied by any national or regional trends.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0310.pdf

Compare the figures shown in those two sources with, say, the UK, with strong anti-gun laws. 14 gun deaths in the UK, several thousand in the USA. Despite not caring much about these figures, I just have to point out factual errors. More guns = more crime. US citizens may be able to protect theselves from any governmental 1984, but it comes at a cost.

 

[Jonluw]

Oh boy, gun control debate!

Hide yo kids, people, 'cuz it's flame on time here!

And on the issue of armed citizens: No thank you. The homicide rate over here is 0.6 per capita as opposed to the US's 5 point something. We're good, thanks.

I would say that you clearly didn't see the message. If your crime rate is that low then by all means keep doing what you're doing. However, I'm talking about the US Constituion and the problem with the Laws in my country. I'm not suggesting that we go to wherever you are (which you failed to mention) and play in your stand box.

You seem to be mistaking my post for an actual attempt at discussion.

All I'm saying is that the right to bear arms is clearly working out just stellar in reducing crime, and that I'm really happy that I live in a country where the average citizen (or policeman) doesn't carry weapons.
The only point I was trying to make was that I like how stuff works here, and I will fight with claws and teeth to keep my country from emulating the US.
To put it metaphorically: Arms races aren't the way to create peace.
But all that doesn't matter, since I don't care how the US handles their problems.

Funny sort of related anecdote:
Apparently, there was this American transfer student at my school once. She left after a really short time because she didn't feel safe going to a school where there were no metal detectors by the doors...

 

[The Funslinger]

It's simple really. The more people who are armed, the less crime there is due to criminals knowing that their victims have guns.

Yes, and then the classic response to that is "oh, but they don't have training with the weapons, or situational training." To which I say "yes, but then clearly the solution is to make a certain amount of situational and weapon training necessary."

Precisely! This is what Canada does actually. Criminals don't stand a chance against citizens who can use guns better than they can.

I wonder if they would hire me to go around with a steel toe-capped boot to deliver sweet justice to the balls of anyone caught firing their gun "gangsta style". Good lord, those people infuriate me.

 

[johnzaku]

It's simple really. The more people who are armed, the less crime there is due to criminals knowing that their victims have guns.

But that's simply not true.

A simple comparison of crime rates in USA vs UK where guns are very strictly controlled is telling.

I'm not saying we should ban guns. Far from it, I'm all for the second amendment, but I also feel that yes, you must be properly trained to use a firearm to own one. You must obtain a licence to obtain a gun.

here's a map that sorts gun deaths per 100,000 in each state.

[(source)http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state]

Here's a list of intentional gun-related deaths in the world per 100,000

See waaaay down there at the bottom is England and Wales.

There's an obvious correlation between owners of guns and amount of crimes committed.

 

[Xangba]

Oh yay here we go, there will inevitably be; redneck jokes, american jokes, police jokes, and of course the flamewar about gun control.
Anyway, as a guy joining the police force and one who knows several officers, yeah, the police consider it their duty to enforce the law and protect citizens. That statement is mainly a liability thing, but you honestly think an officer wouldn't help someone in trouble? And armed I citizens support too, ones that are qualified that is. I did Marines so know how to handle a weapon, and so I think everyone needs to have an understanding of a weapon before being allowed to have it. I think the biggest thing though, out of everything, is damn cooperation between civilians and police. So many people have this distrust of police because they *gasp* do their job and enforce laws. (note; I am not saying there aren't bad or corrupt police officers, at all) Trained armed citizens, plus a police force that isn't screamed at for everything they do (even if done right) and cooperation between the two is the best solution I think.

 

[Athinira]

I'm always amased at these arguments, especially the type that suggest america would fall apart under a wave of crime if guns were made illigal.

I live in england, we cope just fine without the power to blow each others heads off, and i'd much rather face a mugger armed with a knife than one with a handgun- regardless of how I myself am armed.

You fail to understand the issue.

Once guns has already been legalized once, you can't just make it illegal and expect all the guns to magically disappear. The criminals have the guns available én mass now. They will continue to have them once they're made illegal, and all you will succeed doing is either render the citizens defenseless (if they get rid of their now illegal guns) or make them criminals (if they keep their guns for self defense). The criminals doesn't care either way, and they will still use guns in almost every case.

The no-gun politics work in England and other countries because guns have never been legal there in the first place, and therefore are much harder to get a hold of. In countries where guns are already widespread, simply prohibiting them again is only going to make the situation worse.

 

[Jonluw]

It's simple really. The more people who are armed, the less crime there is due to criminals knowing that their victims have guns.

And yet, the US has the highest murder and crime rate in the world.

The country with the least being Norway, where not even police are allowed to carry guns on duty.

Evidence. It speaks volumes.

Because obviously the two things are completely connected.

I'd be willing to wager that the crime rates for both of those two countries are based around a myriad of different things, not just "this one has guns, and this one doesn't!"

I don't really want to bother discussing, but.
I'll be leaving now and I'm not interested in this discussion in either case, but I believe that video makes a good point with an appropriate amount of snarkyness.
I'm sure there's no connection between the amount of gun-related deaths in a country and the amount of gun owners. None at all. Just a coincidence. The US just happens to have other factors that push their homicide rate up a teeeensy bit. Weapon accesibility has nothing to do with people being killed.

 

[polymath]

You can argue about this all you want it's not going to be resolved in an online discussion. All I will contribute to the debate is this: The second amendment was written just after the US had won its war of independence. It existed purely so that if the government became tyrannical, the people had the power to overthrow it like they removed British rule. Arguing that the reasons the founding fathers wrote anything into the constitution as being still valid now is like arguing that medical practices of the era should still be followed. The logic behind them does not apply to the modern day.

 

[theonecookie]

Giving everybody a gun really doesn't change anything ,in fact the only thing it changes is that more people get shot because when somebody comes to rob your house which they will the odds are he'll have a gun because odds are you have a gun

And don't give me that bullshit that if nobody has a gun the only people with guns will be criminals because if civilians don't have guns then criminals won't have them ,why because they don't need them to commit crimes any more

TLR guns don't lower the rate of crimes but they do raise the fatality rate of crimes

I know this might be hard for you but if you ever get the change go to this place... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate and then take a few moments to check out the "Gun Laws" in some of the countries with double the homicide rates per capita than the US.

Why would it be hard for me I'm not some anti-gun activist or any thing I just point out that in more people have gun more people get shot

Also i don't get what your trying to prove with that list the only 3 places and that list with double the gun crime rate of the US are south Africa , Columbia and Thailand These aren't exactly the best places to show that gun control doesn't work What with 50% poverty rates and all throw in the fact each one of them has had some sort of uprising or civil war in the not to distant past and its not hard to see whats going on

TLR desperate people who live in shitholes and have been failed by society and have ready access to fire arms like to commit gun crimes