Poll: Saints Row 2 Morality (spoilers)

[DataSnake]

So, in the bonus mission of Saints Row 2, the player executes Julius. Quite a few sources, including TV Tropes, have spun this as the moment the protagonist crossed the moral event horizon, but I disagree. There are a few facts that make Julius look like the real asshole in this situation:

1. The Saints DID help. Sure, they weren't perfect, but at least they put a stop to this [http://saintsrow.wikia.com/wiki/Aisha%27s_Favor] sort of thing.
2. The Boss had been completely loyal to Julius, even taking considerable risks to save his life when he got arrested. Julius repaid him by blowing him up in an effort to avoid jail time.

So, fellow Escapists, what do YOU think?

 

[Radoh]

I think injecting morality into Saints Row 2 is like injecting fish with pudding.

Edit: Still, now you got me thinking about it. Let's see... blind loyalty to Julius is not something I can get behind, and by exploding him he essentially took that blind loyalty a step further.
I mean, so The Boss is loyal to Julius, and Julius needs to blow them up in order to get out of jail, seems pretty legit.
Still, if I ever got the chance to put down that sick puppy from a long, long distance away, I'd probably take it. They murder way too many people to be doing much good.

 

[Something Amyss]

Quite a few sources, including TV Tropes, have spun this as the moment the protagonist crossed the moral event horizon

lolwut.

Spoilers ensuing, but if you got to the Julius mission, you probably know this crap.

This is a dude who stole radioactive material and swapped it up with the ink at a tattoo parlor to screw with Maro. This is a guy who put Maro's girlfriend in the trunk of a car in such a way Maro would kill him. This is well and good, Maro's hardly a good guy and did stuff to the Saints, but this was over a slight on a deal.

No, your character was already a stone cold killer and a borderline sociopath. This is what the main story dictates, regardless of your choices outside of the cutscenes.

Though I do agree with the notion that Julius really had it coming.

It's too bad, though, as he was one of the better characters from 1 and I'd like to see him in 3.

Anyway, I agree, but seriously....Crossing the moral event horizon by capping Julius? It's an optional mission that really is not as bad as what happens in the actual main story.

 

[Something Amyss]

I think injecting morality into Saints Row 2 is like injecting fish with pudding.

I have nothing to add (Well, beyond the post I was typing when this was posted), but I really, really, REALLY liked this analogy.

 

[Radoh]

I think injecting morality into Saints Row 2 is like injecting fish with pudding.

I have nothing to add (Well, beyond the post I was typing when this was posted), but I really, really, REALLY liked this analogy.

What can I say? I'm a wordsmith of little renown.

Captcha: continued isivat
So we're going to continue on with the Isivat? Very well then, someone fetch the ladle!

 

[Something Amyss]

What can I say? I'm a wordsmith of little renown.

Captcha: continued isivat
So we're going to continue on with the Isivat? Very well then, someone fetch the ladle!

I've been waiting for the sequel since the DLC hit, fleshing out Isivat's backstory.

 

[Tich]

You forgot to mention the Texas Funeral, that time the boss killed a bunch of hobo's for being in the way. Things like that have serious moral implicationc. But this is Saints Row, where we spray shit over buildings to reduce property value, the game where we kidnap ho's, the game where we blow up several city blocks to destroy some drug labs. It's a game about overreacting. And I love it.

 

[DEAD34345]

Nah, the boss does cross a moral event-horizon, but I certainly wouldn't say that was it. Murdering Julius (one of the few people he actually has a legitimate reason to kill) seems far less evil than burying Shogo alive, or tricking Maero into killing his own girl-friend.

 

[DataSnake]

This is a dude who stole radioactive material and swapped it up with the ink at a tattoo parlor to screw with Maro. This is a guy who put Maro's girlfriend in the trunk of a car in such a way Maro would kill him. This is well and good, Maro's hardly a good guy and did stuff to the Saints, but this was over a slight on a deal.

You know, Jessica wasn't exactly an innocent bystander, since what happened to Carlos was her idea. The Boss pulled essentially a prank on Maero, and she responded by having one of his lieutenants tortured to death.

 

[Something Amyss]

You know, Jessica wasn't exactly an innocent bystander, since what happened to Carlos was her idea. The Boss pulled essentially a prank on Maero, and she responded by having one of his lieutenants tortured to death.

And somehow, "she wasn't exactly innocent" doesn't change the point I was making.

Making me wonder if there was a point to pointing it out.

 

[Something Amyss]

You forgot to mention the Texas Funeral, that time the boss killed a bunch of hobo's for being in the way. Things like that have serious moral implicationc. But this is Saints Row, where we spray shit over buildings to reduce property value, the game where we kidnap ho's, the game where we blow up several city blocks to destroy some drug labs. It's a game about overreacting. And I love it.

Anf the next one's going to be even bigger! YAY!

 

[Fragged_Templar]

The protagonist is so far outside the morality spectrum he's starting to approach a sense of honour from the other side. That said, Julius blew up the protagonist, and considering what the protagonist will do to innocent people, just for fun or for being in the way, I say julius is fair game

 

[Farther than stars]

I think injecting morality into Saints Row 2 is like injecting fish with pudding.

You know you can make pudding out of fish, right?

Anyway, I think Julius was in the right here. After all, Julius was the Saints. The protagonist just took them over. And it's true, the Saints did clean up a lot of the city, but it's not like they were actual Saints or anything.
I mean, take a look at some of the stuff that the protagonist has done: putting Maero's girlfriend in the boot of a car for Maero himself to drive over, buring Shogo Akuji alive, etc. Let's face it, no matter how you design the protagonist, he's a complete psycho, especially during Saints Row 2. I'm really just hoping that Saints Row: the Third offers a bit more choice as to what actions you take (especially since we've been led to believe such of late).

 

[DataSnake]

You forgot to mention the Texas Funeral, that time the boss killed a bunch of hobo's for being in the way. Things like that have serious moral implicationc.

Actually, the boss only killed the hobos who were attacking him. If you go back later, there are still a bunch of hobos out there (even after the nightclub is built), and the Saints just leave them alone. And Shogo crashed Aisha's funeral after having her killed AND shooting up a hospital.

And somehow, "she wasn't exactly innocent" doesn't change the point I was making.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. You said that the boss killed Jessica "over a slight on a deal", when it was actually over what she did to Carlos [http://saintsrow.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Asphalt].

Actually, the only character the boss kills without provocation (in the storyline, not counting players screwing around in sandbox mode) is the doctor at the very beginning, and even that's debatable, since the boss just punched him until he lost consciousness, which may not have been fatal.

 

[Something Amyss]

You said that the boss killed Jessica "over a slight on a deal"

Partially true, but you kind of have to ignore the rest of what I said for that to be the case.

The whole ordeal escalated because of a slight on Maero's end, and "Playa" taking offense at it. While it was mutually escalated, the fact that it went anywhere at all is a tribute to the "morality" of the main character and the events all tie back to it.

"This" tied to the whole paragraph, as English allows me to do.

 

[WanderingFool]

I never did that mission. But from what I gleamed from playing SR2, The Boss is a fucking sociopath, and hangs our with a equally psychotic killer (but with less restraint than the Boos) a woman who has done every drug known to man and still only got slightly buzzed (and has an exotic STD), a wannabe gangbanger who helps him break out of prison, and the only sane ************ in the fucking city.

As it stands, the Moral Event Horizon is a joke, the Boss was probably born well inside the MEH (hehe). Hell, when the boss rolled out of the infirmery bed at the start of SR2, he crossed the MEH.The only way he would cross the MEH would be if he was actually going backwards into be a decent, alright guy.

And that would make the games suck...

 

[Togs]

Option 3: Its a game designed around letting off your id in the most ridiculous manner possible, why would you sully that with things like morality?

 

[Teh Jammah]

Anyway, I think Julius was in the right here. After all, Julius was the Saints. The protagonist just took them over.

You *did* play the original right?

The Boss/Playa/insert name here didn't exactly take the Saints over so much as Julius promoted him to right hand man after he more or less singlehandedly wipes out the Vice Kings, Rollers and Los Santos and then gets 'arrested' immediately after doing so. In order to free him the PC is made to cause even more acts of terror by the corrupt police chief (who is also subsequently killed in revenge).

And then Julius blows him and Alderman Hughes up (not that Hughes didn't deserve it), puts them in a coma with severe burns and decapitates the Saints. Which causes Ultor, the triad, the Samedi and brotherhood to move in and bring the city more or less back to square one (or possibly even worse).

Not that the boss is completely innocent, (s)he is an indisputable psycho, but in this case(s)he is probably the one I tend to side with.

TL;DR - BOTH of them are in the wrong, but i side witht eh Boss. Whose real moral event horizon is probably the tit for tat stuff with Maero.