Poll: Security Guards V.S. 12-year old punk

[Harry Mason]

I've worked around children, often violent children refugees from war torn countries, who have attacked me and each other in more ways than you can imagine. I've had to restrain a lot of angry, violent children. The way this security guard behaved was COMPLETELY inappropriate. There is no reason to immobilize a child that size face down on the ground for any reason, much less because they started pushing on your knee with their foot. I've taken knives away from children in less dramatic ways. This guy is just a dick. He let his frustration get the better of him and deserves to be suspended.

Because a kick to the knee from a child that size is momentary annoyance for a man that size, and it's his job. Being thrown to the ground by a security guard and immobilized on your face has a permanent psychological effect on a child, even (and especially) a troubled one. There is no excuse if you are a professional.

 

[Siege_TF]

I've worked around children, often violent children refugees from war torn countries, who have attacked me and each other in more ways than you can imagine. I've had to restrain a lot of angry, violent children. The way this security guard behaved was COMPLETELY inappropriate. There is no reason to immobilize a child that size face down on the ground for any reason, much less because they started pushing on your knee with their foot. I've taken knives away from children in less dramatic ways. This guy is just a dick. He let his frustration get the better of him and deserves to be suspended.

Because a kick to the knee from a child that size is momentary annoyance for a man that size, and it's his job. Being thrown to the ground by a security guard and immobilized on your face has a permanent psychological effect on a child, even (and especially) a troubled one. There is no excuse if you are a professional.

I gotta ask; were you doing it while being harassed by four other kids? The guard din't have the boy on his face, on his front yes, because that's the procedure for taking someone to ground, which is nessessary if the person is struggling too much. Maybe you'd prefer if he was on his back so he could kick at the guards? Not reasonable. To have him on his face would be implying the boy's face was being forced to the ground. It wasn't; the boy was pinned by his waist and was free to move his head.

 

[Extasii]

Awesome story (not sarcasm)

While I haven't had to deal with biters, I do get knives flashed in my direction by teenage idiots that I "have words with" when they use the electric carts and wheelchairs reserved for the handicapped or elderly.

Although I did get to guilt-trip a mother whose kid was driving an electric cart while a very elderly woman with oxygen tubes and one prosthetic leg had to wait for one. I tell her that her son should not be driving the cart, she gets pissed at me and says her son can do what he wants. I point out the old lady (sitting in a wheelchair that I had brought for her while she waited). Instant satisfaction as I see her eyes go wide and she yanks her son out of the electric cart.

Discipline is needed more than ever.

 

[Harry Mason]

I've worked around children, often violent children refugees from war torn countries, who have attacked me and each other in more ways than you can imagine. I've had to restrain a lot of angry, violent children. The way this security guard behaved was COMPLETELY inappropriate. There is no reason to immobilize a child that size face down on the ground for any reason, much less because they started pushing on your knee with their foot. I've taken knives away from children in less dramatic ways. This guy is just a dick. He let his frustration get the better of him and deserves to be suspended.

Because a kick to the knee from a child that size is momentary annoyance for a man that size, and it's his job. Being thrown to the ground by a security guard and immobilized on your face has a permanent psychological effect on a child, even (and especially) a troubled one. There is no excuse if you are a professional.

I gotta ask; were you doing it while being harassed by four other kids? The guard din't have the boy on his face, on his front yes, because that's the procedure for taking someone to ground, which is nessessary if the person is struggling too much. Maybe you'd prefer if he was on his back so he could kick at the guards? Not reasonable. To have him on his face would be implying the boy's face was being forced to the ground. It wasn't; the boy was pinned by his waist and was free to move his head.

FOUR other kids? Please excuse the pun, but that's child's play! None of the other kids laid a finger on the guards. Try dealing with an entire playground in the projects when a fistfight breaks out over a Hmong kid calling someone's sister the "n" word. Those security guards didn't know their asses from their elbows.

And saying that someone is "on their face" is an expression meaning they are on their stomachs or "face down." Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Agayek]

Since this is on the 10th page I doubt it will get seen, but I made a little "remix" that you guys may appreciate

That is amazing. Thank you for that.

 

[Multikott]

I watched the clip, but I have first hand experience in knowing how to hide weapons.

And the guards finding the weapons depends fully on company policy. Some of the security companies I worked for will not allow the search of a person no matter what, you can draw your gun and shoot someone but god forbid you search them.

It comes down to liability, a lot of companies dont want even the chance of a sexual harassment suit. Because even if you win it, your rep is ruined for having the suit in the first place.

Just because the guards looked relaxed does NOT mean the balance of power was in their favor. They were out numbered about 3 to 1 by the teenagers, that is why they drew their ASPs when they had to take the kid down, because the teenagers were about to escalate it.

But hey, when someone is calling you a whore and threatening to kill you like these kids were, please, relax, let the person do whatever they want. I am sure you will have a lot of fun.

I have no experience whatsoever in the field of concealed weaponry (or of working as a security guard), so I'm not going to argue the first point. As for the second, I'll just quote someone more knowledgeable than me:

FOUR other kids? Please excuse the pun, but that's child's play! None of the other kids laid a finger on the guards. Try dealing with an entire playground in the projects when a fistfight breaks out over a Hmong kid calling someone's sister the "n" word. Those security guards didn't know their asses from their elbows.

I stand by my opinion that the guard's violence was over the top.

 

[spartan231490]

I think it was wrong simply because the kid was already handcuffed and not only helpless, but was probably going to end up having a very very bad day when his parents showed up to collect him. I don't really see any excuse for body-slamming a defenseless child to a concrete floor. He could have been very seriously hurt.

To clarify, My only problem was that the kid was handcuffed and so he couldn't even break his fall. I would have had no problem if they had slammed him into a wall, or slapped him in the face, or even body-slammed one of the other kids that were harassing them, all of those things were warranted. Possibly harming a 12 year old who has already been hand-cuffed just because he's calling you bad names, is not.

Again, the kid was trying to make a break for it or resisting. Also, he was not bodyslammed, he was taken to ground.

Did you watch the movie?

Did YOU watch the movie? I don't think you did or you would have seen the kid trying to kick the guard's knees. Watch the movie better. Both of you.

Also, they could most certainly not have slapped him in the face, there's laws about that sort of thing (at least in Canada).

he didn't make a break for it, the guy was holding him. and he was thrown to the ground, and that's kinda the definition of body-slammed.

 

[Daveman]

Mind you, you are right, they could have pulled a weapon, so really they should have just tazed their balls off... just in case.

Or you can take a look at the goddamned video again and notice that at the the kid tryied to lever the guard's knee so he can make a run for it. It's not that the others are right, it's that making jackass remarks like suggesting the guards should have used their tazers makes every poster who seems to think they're on Sienfeld look like a jackass.

And since I AM a professional I'll just point out that the guard was on the kid's ass, which causes no damage, as opposed to the kid's spine, which could cause permanent damage, all of which is is preferable to death which may have occured if the kid was still between cars if the train took a turn and he got tossed.

Newman.

Excuse me for trying to keep it relatively jovial, even if that makes me a "jackass".

But I do request that you learn to swear, "goddamned" and "jackass" don't even register as cursing to me any more. You might as well just say "ruddy" and "nincompoop".

Also, why don't we agree to disagree on what we saw? I'm just saying that if you see that as a threatening motion then I wonder how you work up the courage to leave the house.

 

[Dracowrath]

Well, I can kinda understand her wanting to defend her son. But sometimes that protective instinct blinds people to the fact their kids aren't the little angels they think they are.

The best part about it is that the mom does see what a little shit her kid is. She's quoted in that article someone linked earlier as saying something like "I know he's cocky and belligerent, but the guard went too far!". It's really kinda silly.

Then that mom is an idiot.

 

[La Barata]

I'm a security guard, and I have to say, he handled that better than I would have. Seriously, I would have punted that fucker through the nearest window.

 

[Supertegwyn]

I've worked around children, often violent children refugees from war torn countries, who have attacked me and each other in more ways than you can imagine. I've had to restrain a lot of angry, violent children. The way this security guard behaved was COMPLETELY inappropriate. There is no reason to immobilize a child that size face down on the ground for any reason, much less because they started pushing on your knee with their foot. I've taken knives away from children in less dramatic ways. This guy is just a dick. He let his frustration get the better of him and deserves to be suspended.

Because a kick to the knee from a child that size is momentary annoyance for a man that size, and it's his job. Being thrown to the ground by a security guard and immobilized on your face has a permanent psychological effect on a child, even (and especially) a troubled one. There is no excuse if you are a professional.

I gotta ask; were you doing it while being harassed by four other kids? The guard din't have the boy on his face, on his front yes, because that's the procedure for taking someone to ground, which is nessessary if the person is struggling too much. Maybe you'd prefer if he was on his back so he could kick at the guards? Not reasonable. To have him on his face would be implying the boy's face was being forced to the ground. It wasn't; the boy was pinned by his waist and was free to move his head.

FOUR other kids? Please excuse the pun, but that's child's play! None of the other kids laid a finger on the guards. Try dealing with an entire playground in the projects when a fistfight breaks out over a Hmong kid calling someone's sister the "n" word. Those security guards didn't know their asses from their elbows.

And saying that someone is "on their face" is an expression meaning they are on their stomachs or "face down." Sorry for the confusion.

Those 'four kids' appear to be significantly older than the child being restrained and could have easily been hiding a knife under their hoodies. The two guards were surrounded by rowdy punk ass kids and responded accordingly.

The guards didn't throw him to the ground, they spun him around by the neck and forced him to the floor.

 

[Harry Mason]

I've worked around children, often violent children refugees from war torn countries, who have attacked me and each other in more ways than you can imagine. I've had to restrain a lot of angry, violent children. The way this security guard behaved was COMPLETELY inappropriate. There is no reason to immobilize a child that size face down on the ground for any reason, much less because they started pushing on your knee with their foot. I've taken knives away from children in less dramatic ways. This guy is just a dick. He let his frustration get the better of him and deserves to be suspended.

Because a kick to the knee from a child that size is momentary annoyance for a man that size, and it's his job. Being thrown to the ground by a security guard and immobilized on your face has a permanent psychological effect on a child, even (and especially) a troubled one. There is no excuse if you are a professional.

I gotta ask; were you doing it while being harassed by four other kids? The guard din't have the boy on his face, on his front yes, because that's the procedure for taking someone to ground, which is nessessary if the person is struggling too much. Maybe you'd prefer if he was on his back so he could kick at the guards? Not reasonable. To have him on his face would be implying the boy's face was being forced to the ground. It wasn't; the boy was pinned by his waist and was free to move his head.

FOUR other kids? Please excuse the pun, but that's child's play! None of the other kids laid a finger on the guards. Try dealing with an entire playground in the projects when a fistfight breaks out over a Hmong kid calling someone's sister the "n" word. Those security guards didn't know their asses from their elbows.

And saying that someone is "on their face" is an expression meaning they are on their stomachs or "face down." Sorry for the confusion.

Those 'four kids' appear to be significantly older than the child being restrained and could have easily been hiding a knife under their hoodies. The two guards were surrounded by rowdy punk ass kids and responded accordingly.

The guards didn't throw him to the ground, they spun him around by the neck and forced him to the floor.

So further man-handling the other, potentially dangerous kids' friend was supposed to make them calm down? I don't think so. If you've ever been surrounded by "rowdy, punk-ass kids," you know that they are looking for any opportunity to act out, and the best way to keep them from doing so is to be a calm as possible. And maybe, you know, ignoring the tiny 12 year old you've got cuffed when he pushes his foot against your knee.

Also, I never said that they "threw him to the ground." The had this tiny kid cuffed, what the fuck was he going to do? These men were acting like amateurs, and it sounds like they're being reprimanded for doing so.Not much else to say.

 

[Supertegwyn]

I've worked around children, often violent children refugees from war torn countries, who have attacked me and each other in more ways than you can imagine. I've had to restrain a lot of angry, violent children. The way this security guard behaved was COMPLETELY inappropriate. There is no reason to immobilize a child that size face down on the ground for any reason, much less because they started pushing on your knee with their foot. I've taken knives away from children in less dramatic ways. This guy is just a dick. He let his frustration get the better of him and deserves to be suspended.

Because a kick to the knee from a child that size is momentary annoyance for a man that size, and it's his job. Being thrown to the ground by a security guard and immobilized on your face has a permanent psychological effect on a child, even (and especially) a troubled one. There is no excuse if you are a professional.

I gotta ask; were you doing it while being harassed by four other kids? The guard din't have the boy on his face, on his front yes, because that's the procedure for taking someone to ground, which is nessessary if the person is struggling too much. Maybe you'd prefer if he was on his back so he could kick at the guards? Not reasonable. To have him on his face would be implying the boy's face was being forced to the ground. It wasn't; the boy was pinned by his waist and was free to move his head.

FOUR other kids? Please excuse the pun, but that's child's play! None of the other kids laid a finger on the guards. Try dealing with an entire playground in the projects when a fistfight breaks out over a Hmong kid calling someone's sister the "n" word. Those security guards didn't know their asses from their elbows.

And saying that someone is "on their face" is an expression meaning they are on their stomachs or "face down." Sorry for the confusion.

Those 'four kids' appear to be significantly older than the child being restrained and could have easily been hiding a knife under their hoodies. The two guards were surrounded by rowdy punk ass kids and responded accordingly.

The guards didn't throw him to the ground, they spun him around by the neck and forced him to the floor.

So further man-handling the other, potentially dangerous kids' friend was supposed to make them calm down? I don't think so. If you've ever been surrounded by "rowdy, punk-ass kids," you know that they are looking for any opportunity to act out, and the best way to keep them from doing so is to be a calm as possible. And maybe, you know, ignoring the tiny 12 year old you've got cuffed when he pushes his foot against your knee.

Also, I never said that they "threw him to the ground." The had this tiny kid cuffed, what the fuck was he going to do? These men were acting like amateurs, and it sounds like they're being reprimanded for doing so.Not much else to say.

Yes, you did say that. "being thrown to the ground by a security guard"
Read your posts.

He didn't man-handle the kid, he moved the kid to a position where he couldn't hurt the guard and the guard could use both arms to watch the other kids. When he was holding the kid to the wall he only had one arm free where as when he was on the floor he had two. The kid was acting like a dick so the guard pulled him down. Have you ever been kicked in the knee cap? It hurts like a *****, even from a twelve year old.

 

[Harry Mason]

I've worked around children, often violent children refugees from war torn countries, who have attacked me and each other in more ways than you can imagine. I've had to restrain a lot of angry, violent children. The way this security guard behaved was COMPLETELY inappropriate. There is no reason to immobilize a child that size face down on the ground for any reason, much less because they started pushing on your knee with their foot. I've taken knives away from children in less dramatic ways. This guy is just a dick. He let his frustration get the better of him and deserves to be suspended.

Because a kick to the knee from a child that size is momentary annoyance for a man that size, and it's his job. Being thrown to the ground by a security guard and immobilized on your face has a permanent psychological effect on a child, even (and especially) a troubled one. There is no excuse if you are a professional.

I gotta ask; were you doing it while being harassed by four other kids? The guard din't have the boy on his face, on his front yes, because that's the procedure for taking someone to ground, which is nessessary if the person is struggling too much. Maybe you'd prefer if he was on his back so he could kick at the guards? Not reasonable. To have him on his face would be implying the boy's face was being forced to the ground. It wasn't; the boy was pinned by his waist and was free to move his head.

FOUR other kids? Please excuse the pun, but that's child's play! None of the other kids laid a finger on the guards. Try dealing with an entire playground in the projects when a fistfight breaks out over a Hmong kid calling someone's sister the "n" word. Those security guards didn't know their asses from their elbows.

And saying that someone is "on their face" is an expression meaning they are on their stomachs or "face down." Sorry for the confusion.

Those 'four kids' appear to be significantly older than the child being restrained and could have easily been hiding a knife under their hoodies. The two guards were surrounded by rowdy punk ass kids and responded accordingly.

The guards didn't throw him to the ground, they spun him around by the neck and forced him to the floor.

So further man-handling the other, potentially dangerous kids' friend was supposed to make them calm down? I don't think so. If you've ever been surrounded by "rowdy, punk-ass kids," you know that they are looking for any opportunity to act out, and the best way to keep them from doing so is to be a calm as possible. And maybe, you know, ignoring the tiny 12 year old you've got cuffed when he pushes his foot against your knee.

Also, I never said that they "threw him to the ground." The had this tiny kid cuffed, what the fuck was he going to do? These men were acting like amateurs, and it sounds like they're being reprimanded for doing so.Not much else to say.

Yes, you did say that. "being thrown to the ground by a security guard"
Read your posts.

He didn't man-handle the kid, he moved the kid to a position where he couldn't hurt the guard and the guard could use both arms to watch the other kids. When he was holding the kid to the wall he only had one arm free where as when he was on the floor he had two. The kid was acting like a dick so the guard pulled him down. Have you ever been kicked in the knee cap? It hurts like a *****, even from a twelve year old.

Oops! Look I did say that. Apologies. Looks like I'm not above using hyperbole for dramatic effect after all! I'll concede that the child was not "thrown" but rather "guided" to the ground.

I maintain that the security guards acted inappropriately, though. I've been kicked in the knee, poked in the eye with a stick, punched in the face, punched in the groin, kicked in the groin, whipped with a stick, slapped in the ribs with an iron bar, bitten on more occasions than I choose to count, called names most people have never even heard, and grazed with a butterfly knife. All by children ranging from about 6 to 14 years old, mostly Hmong from Vietnam, who have been brought over to the American Southeast and plopped down in projects. I know the force of an angry 12 year old male attempting to escape my grasp and cause harm to other people. It's my job.

This security guard allowed his emotions to get the better of him and acted extremely inappropriately. I've dealt with situations as bad and worse than that on a daily basis. Sure, I've got a lot more bruises and scars than those men probably do, but I still have MY JOB, because I act like an adult.

 

[Harry Mason]

AAARGH!!! Damn you, double post demons! Why do you torment me so?

I've done nothing to you!

 

[batuea]

Did he do the right thing?

Hell no!


Why? Because this isn't about right or wrong. This is about a guy doing his job. His job is to keep things peaceful and orderly, like any good security guard. That means that punk-ass kids who walk up shouting and yelling and generally disturbing that comfortable peace need to get their asses knocked the hell down a peg.

He didn't do the right thing. He did his job.


That's his sole purpose for being there.

This isn't a moral issue. That the kids parents have somehow turned it into one is just a testament to how completely separated from reality the vast majority of the human species has become.

There was a time we were made of tougher stuff.

First off after reading 8 pages of this topic, * which all the people going OMG I DONT THINCZZZ WHAT HAPPENEDZZZZ OP TELLZZZZ MEZZZZ have never learned to do, seriously I saw one person ask when at the top of the same page was a full freaking translation by a Swedish person FFS*, sorry about that...*adjusts tie*, this Guard did his job and did it well, and yes he WAS leaning on that baton, I use to have one just like it, its a spring assisted gravity baton, you press a button and flick your wrist lightly, and a spring helps extend and LOCK it in place, he did not hit the ground that was the sound of the baton opening, Its made to make that sound as a warning. Also he was leaning on his ham strings, no harm what so ever can come from that, even with full weight applied, there would have been no lasting damage at all, its very uncomfortable to have done to you, but does hurt or have any debilitating effects once your out of that hold *max hold time for that move would be about 3-5 minutes in this situation*. Second the supposed "slamming" of the kid, that was not a slam, hell its barely a take down, what he did was:
1) Firmly, but not to hard, put your non dominate hand on back of neck pressing gently on the base of the skull.

2) take your dominate hand and put across the opponents center of gravity *the mid section*.

3) draw your dominate hand in wards creating a lifting maneuver

4) press opponent against your body and lower your self by bending the knees'

5) tighten your non dominate hand on the back of the neck to keep opponents face down, this is crucial WITHOUT THIS STEP YOU CAN KILL YOUR OPPONENT WITH VERY LITTLE PRESSURE APPLIED. what can happen in the opponents chin can press against the ground causing the skull the hyper extended backwards shoving the spinal stem the the motor cortex/central cortex.

6) lean on buttock or hamstrings use your out side hand to balance yourself *his baton*

this is stuff they teach 6 years old in karate classes, its the safest most painless take down ever made, and that guard did it flawlessly, I have never seen anyone in person, or a real world situation *IE not a training video* do it this well, this guy has training under his belt, not just guard training either, more then likely western judo. he did his job, and did it well. also everyone saying having your elbow up like that "hurts", that's the point to cause mild discomfort to reduce a opponents will to resist, and the guard is also trying to support the kid by bracing his hip against him so he not dangling, the kid dangles because he pushes off the wall trying to be all bad ass. also are alot of people on here made out of freaking glass, seriously I have a royally messed up back *suppose to be 6 foot 2 inches but only 5 foot 11 inches due to spinal twisting* have a right leg literally dieing slowly, have a messed up left wrist that needs to be completely fused in under a year, and am 25 years old, and when me and my friends ruff around and wrestle / teach each other self defense, my arm is extended much more than that, and never have dislocated. Seriously are most people in this topic the same people who break a toe, and say that is like having a broken femur and need a huge cast and painkillers and 10 doctors appointments and rehab for the broken toe? I mean seriously it amazes me, that all these people are coming up with these completely unrealistic Steven Segaul movie scenarios that could have happened to this kid. Please get your [sarcasm]worldwide seasoned infallible[/sarcasm] answers from some where OTHER than the movies, and if you don't know about it then don't try to act like you do, I just got back from hanging out with my friends, while we were practicing self defense I showed a guy, who has grown up his whole life taking classes on this stuff *He is 21*, this video, he read 3 pages in and started to laugh at the people who said that take down could kill/injure him, hell he did it on me *he is 6 foot 10 inches and twice my body weight... in muscle* and it did not hurt one bit, after the first time it was actually really fun its a controlled fall take down, used to get students use to falling down face first. man really sorry about the wall of text here, like I said, I read 8 pages and have though about it all day, even talked with some people who knew this take down and had it done to me several times in a row, it never hurt once, uncomfortable heck yea it is, but not painful in one bit. So thanks for reading my opinion and take from it what you want.

 

[kinggamecat]

Well at least that kid didn't get raped with a wiimote.

A bit too soon, but funny nevertheless, I tip my hat to you.

lol, nice.

OP: I'm curious what the first kid did, but he probably deserved it too.
Kids these days have no fucking respect for authority. I've had 8 graders tell me to fuck off.
When I was in school, I respected the grade above me, and that respect was heightened for each grade above them. You just didn't fuck with them, because they were bigger than you, knew more, and because you just didn't fuck with them.
They never gave me a reason to fear them, and I didn't, I just respected them because that was what you did.
But now kids have their mommies and daddies fight their battles for them, so they can be little shits.
Fucking kids >=/

-APPLAUDS- Thank you, somebody needed to say this stuff.