Poll: Sexism?
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It depends on where you draw the line on being a gentleman. If it's basic courtesy (as in opening/holding doors for everyone, or helping everyone whenever possible), you're good. The issue most people take is that this kind of politeness is extended as an attempt to prove yourself, rather than out of a sincere desire to be helpful.tennisace said:
The only girls who have ever taken exception to it (in my experience) are ones who see men only being gentlemen toward women they want to sleep with. I've had women mention to me that if they hadn't seen me being courteous toward everyone, they would think I was trying to be manipulative.
It also depends on how much of an imposition it is. Holding a door for someone is nice, and if you happen to get to a door first, holding it for someone is nice. If you're having to rush past and sidestep them to do it, it's less about politeness and more about you showing off. Same thing with holding a chair. There's no real purpose to it, and it's counter-productive in most cases.
If it's politeness for the sake of politeness, more power to you and to hell with anyone who complains. If you're showing how gallant you are, you're being a jerk. If you're only using it as a tactic to get a girl you like to like you back, you're being a jerk.
This is one for the books, Labyrinth and I agree.Labyrinth said:
It depends. If it's motivated by politeness, yeah, it's great, and no reasonable person is every going to have a problem. If it's motivated by a view that women are somehow inferior or by an idea that gentlemanly behavior means that the woman is obliged to appreciate, look up to, or be attracted to the man, then yeah, it's pretty clearly sexist. If that sounds unlikely to you, congratulations, you are not part of the problem here.
So far in this thread, I have seen exactly one (EDIT: make that two) responses explicitly engaging with feminsim that wasn't completely retarded.
So far in this thread, I have seen exactly one (EDIT: make that two) responses explicitly engaging with feminsim that wasn't completely retarded.
This is just one of those incidences where the will for others to conform is justified by a word ending in "ism."
In my original post i never specified gender. I open doors for everyone and well help regardless of gender. The only difference is getting things like car doors. I really don't care if there a guy or a girl manors are manors. The hypocrisy really flows when it comes to hitting. The very girl who called me sexist hits me and know i will not hit her back. At one point she kicked me in my shin and hurt herself then blamed me for not having softer shins.
i found the only people who complain about people being polite are the neo-feminists who feel that you're treating them differently because you assume they are of a weaker sex, or some elderly men who assume you feel that they're to old to do anything for themselves. best thing to do is brush it off or explain why youdid what you did. but thats normally a waste of time because their heads are shoved so far up their asses they can't see the logic of your actions. this all comes from personal experience.
Extreme Feminism killed Chivalry. End of story. When a guy holds the door for you and all a woman can return with is "I can do it myself", a man is not very inclined to do it again.
Define "gentlemen" because there are types who call themselves "gentlemen" but are actually sexist tools. Opening doors is fine, I do the same thing for people. Helping a woman do something she doesn't want your help with or doing it because you don't think she can do it herself, that's sexist. If she wants your help, that's fine. I think this should be obvious but people take things waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far and you get women who don't allow men to even look at them. *sigh* everything is so delicate these days.
You have to understand that women dont want to come off as 'needing' you to do this for them but rather that you want to. Women are weird and this is coming from one. >.<' I've seen many guys stop to open doors not because they want to but because 'it's the right thing to do.'
I will say though, as a female, when I see chivalry from a guy, opening doors, buying dinner, I become interested almost instantly. Its a instant head turner for me because it is so dead in my area. Your more likely to get hit by a car than have someone hold the door open for you. Has to be genuin though boys.
^_^
I will say though, as a female, when I see chivalry from a guy, opening doors, buying dinner, I become interested almost instantly. Its a instant head turner for me because it is so dead in my area. Your more likely to get hit by a car than have someone hold the door open for you. Has to be genuin though boys.
^_^
Kukul said:I'm quite bad mannered, but now I'm seriously thinking about learning to be a gentleman just to piss off feminists
Lol
Thanks man. Yeah, its Mr. Snugglesworth. When I made the name I had no idea this forum allowed spacing in names, so I just made it Mrsnugglesworth.[/quote]Mrsnugglesworth said:
Dont worry i read it as Mr too
Yes, manors are manors. Manners are not manors, though, as that would be a weird house to live intennisace said:
-D). Sorry, that made my night.On the question of physical violence, it's a gray area, I think. In fairness, the "don't hit girls" is actually a more modern ethos than chivalry, but let's roll with it. The sexism arises if you're willing to hit a man, but not a woman. Unless truly provoked, I wouldn't hit anyone, ever (except in sparring, or playing around). If horsing around, it would be sexist to not hit a girl, since it implies they can't take the horseplay. In sparring, it'd be sexist not to fight a girl, since it implies that they aren't as capable (given that all of the girls I've ever had to spar with were at least as capable as me, to insult them like that would have caused them to kick my ass). The only time it wouldn't be sexist is if you're willing to actually fight a man (knock-down-drag-out) and not a woman, but then it's just stupid.
Your stance is a little confusing, because the perceived double-standard seems to be entirely mental. Unless you're going out and fighting guys Tyler Durden style, you're not treating men any differently. I'm not saying backhand the girl, but a little playful response isn't not acting like a gentleman.
However, please, please, please, don't say things like "I'll be a gentleman if you'll be a lady."
It's not sexist in the slightest, its simply common courtesy.
And should you be doing to attract the said girl, ITS STILL NOT SEXIST, its just part of your courtship. I mean girls will do different things to attract guys, guys will be nice and curteous. You wont call a girl sexist when she dresses nice, puts on nice clothes and makeup to impress a guy, would you? So why would you call a guy sexist when he's trying to be nice to impress a girl?
Theres also the fact that some things are more common to do with girls : Helping her put her coat on, handing her her purse, etc. You won't do that to another guy! lol.
And should you be doing to attract the said girl, ITS STILL NOT SEXIST, its just part of your courtship. I mean girls will do different things to attract guys, guys will be nice and curteous. You wont call a girl sexist when she dresses nice, puts on nice clothes and makeup to impress a guy, would you? So why would you call a guy sexist when he's trying to be nice to impress a girl?
Theres also the fact that some things are more common to do with girls : Helping her put her coat on, handing her her purse, etc. You won't do that to another guy! lol.
Yes it is manners, it has been a long day. As for helping with things, I am talking about if a girl has a couple boxes and is having trouble. And apparent basic kindness to your fellow man went out the window with chivalry. And why do girls get all high and mighty thinking that I must like them for me to open a door, it might not be common but come on.
I see being a gentlemen as sexist in the same way I see Resident Evil 5 as racist. I do not. It's just being polite, whether politically correct pricks want you to think so or not. I swear, society could advance so much in terms of social issues if people stopped upholding this political correctness bullshit.