Poll: Shmups

[Phlakes]

Oh, shmups.

"Shmup" is a dumb word so I'm going to stop using it and refer to them indirectly instead.

For a lot of us, myself included, our only experience with the genre is horrible flash games and videos of people navigating ridiculous mazes of bullets, but outside of that, there are a lot of very well-regarded games and a decently sized audience of "hardcore" fans.

But for us average players, the idea of running through the same thing dozens of times in order to master it well enough to beat it isn't really the most attractive thing in a game.

...or is it?

Now that the Great Age of Indie Roguelikes and Dark Souls is well under way, maybe it's not such a niche genre after all?

But at this point, there are still very few people who play them. So why exactly is that?

I don't know. I'd guess it's because there aren't very many out there that are easily accessible. There are a few on XBLA and PSN, and maybe like five on Steam, but other than that the only reasonable way to play the good ones is by emulating them, which a lot of people just don't do. There's also the fact that even the most modern ones are still very traditional, which can seem counter intuitive since the "classics" were designed for the quick money-play-die arcade setting, and that, as opposed to roguelikes that incorporate random elements to make each run feel unique, they're very strictly designed and don't have any inherent replay value.

So to get to the point, do you play them? And if not, what kind of game would potentially get you into them?

 

[LaoJim]

I have a strange relationship with Shmups. I have three of the Cave shmups (Deathsmile, Dodonpachi and Akai Katana) all of which I bought very cheaply. On the one hand you have to admire them for resolutely doing their own thing, despite the march of "progress", on the other I find much of the design, even the design philosophy baffling.

They make no effort to tell a story, despite being balls out hard you can completely them in about 15 minutes by abusing continue, they don't use the full screen, despite their skins (medieval fantasy, sci-fi, modern fantasy/sci-fi manga (actually I'm not sure what Akai is) they are all basically the same game with the same purple bullets flying at you, except for some slightly arcane mechanics. They come with about 3 different game modes, which vary the arcane mechanics in slightly more arcane ways. There is slowdown when there are too many bullets on the screen, which is strange since the whole point of the game is to put as many bullets on the screen as possible.

So theoretically they are terrible...

And yet, I still find myself playing them. Not enough to get good (or even competent), but if one is on sale I'll definitely buy it, play it for a couple of evenings and feel like its good that something like that exists and the forget about it for the latest homogenized shooter.

 

[Weaver]

I like them, still play them, but I'm kind of bad at them.
Also most fans consider "bullet hell" games and "shmups" to be - more or less - separate genres.

 

[Randoman01]

I think back in high school and elementary school I have dabbled in them when I was bored and there was nothing to do but I don't play these games very much. Just not my genre.

 

[stroopwafel]

I like shmups though not really of the bullet hell kind. Soldner X2, Sine Mora and Under Defeat are probably my current favorites. Instantly fun so great in short bursts. They are also very accessible for newcomers and casual players.

I agree shmups are very basic and they have been around since the dawn of videogames(the original Zanac for MSX is actually still quite fun). But I think the simplistic gameplay is what gives shmups their timeless charm. Nemesis, Parodius, Gradius; lots of good memories for me. It's a genre that probably peaked on the Sega Saturn.

 

[Remaiki]

I think I can give some ideas in regards to this, being a game designer who is working on a bullet hell.

The difference between say, Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu and say, Super Meat Boy, is that SMB actively tells you how to do the base things you need to do to progress. It introduces elements over time, rather than throwing them all at the player from stage one. DDP DFK, however, requires foreknowledge of where everything is, as to make much of the game even just possible one has to destroy the ships that are appearing ASAP, because of the sheer difficulty of handling all of the game's different elements.

When making a difficult game, there are two mutually exclusive (if you want your game to be fair) things you have to think about:
a) lack of clarity (or bullshit attacks one cannot predict)
b) long replay time (when one fails the task, it takes a long time to get back to where they were)

You can only have one, otherwise the player will end up feeling like they are wasting their time - but DDP DFK tries to have it's cake and eat it too by having both a lack of clarity (many patterns have a very specific angle of attack) and a long replay time (by the nature of its stages). I think it should focus on making what the player needs to do more obvious, while keeping the long replay times as the levels would have less of an impact if they were shorter.

/waffle

 

[Maximum Bert]

Its not a type of game I tend to be attracted to but I am certainly not repelled by them either I have had a lot of fun with Shmups and Bullet hell shooters (I always tend to just class them as Shmups).

I played them mostly during the Snes Era with the last one I played properly being Ikaruga when it was released on the gamecube. Took myself and a friend weeks to complete it (obviously not solid playing) and we enjoyed every second that last level though damn that was tough.

I always liked the bosses on these types of games there was that prehistoric isle one by SNK I think which I used to play in the arcade back in the day I though that game was amazing back then and wouldnt be surprised if it still holds up now SNK games tend to age well.

 

[StriderShinryu]

They've pretty much done absolutely nothing for me for as long as I've been gaming. There have been a handful at most I've dabbled with here and there but even the "best" ones get boring well before the hour mark. There just isn't enough variety or depth to the experience for me. Something being hard just for hards sake isn't enjoyable to me.

 

[Vicarious Reality]

Not often no, i have played one or ten

 

[Bad Jim]

But at this point, there are still very few people who play them. So why exactly is that?

They never really had mass appeal. Everyone played a few back in the 80s when video games were a novelty, but I don't think most people played them very long. They are a 'fun for five minutes' thing at best for most people. Then pretty much every genre came out afterwards and gaming became big due to the popularity of all the non-shmup genres.

 

[Nazulu]

I love the genre. Problem is I don't like most of the games. Many are pretty samey all of the way and a lot of them have flaws like distracting backgrounds or too many bullet sponge like enemy's. But when they're done right they are very much re-playable. It all started with Shadow Wraith for me.

I've only been playing a few lately on Steam. One called Scoregasm where you try to reach all the different stages by choosing which difficulty you want to play next. And the other is Enemy Mind where the gimmick is you can take over enemy's mind and use their ship to progress.

 

[Kotaro]

Love 'em, bullet hells especially. I love how much precision it takes to do well, the state of zen that you need to be in to thrive, how much practice one needs to get good, and that once you do get good, the instincts that you've developed can translate to other games in the genre.
Touhou are my favorites, but I love Ikaruga, and anything made by Cave to death, too.

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

Don't like Bullet Hell games, but give me a classic shmup like M.U.S.H.A. on the Mega Drive and I will cry tears of cum. I find they don't tend to require as much memorisation; if you were good enough you could beat them first time. And when you get the often beautiful music and visual design married to a tight control scheme, visceral feedback and cool weapons, there's little that's more addictive.

 

[crazygameguy4ever]

i'll admit i only checked this post out cause i had no idea what a "shmup" was.. based on what i see though a "shmup" is a strange word for bullet hell games.. never heard them called anything other then bullet hell games before now and bullet hell sounds a lot better and makes more sense the "Shmup" does

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

i'll admit i only checked this post out cause i had no idea what a "shmup" was.. based on what i see though a "shmup" is a strange word for bullet hell games.. never heard them called anything other then bullet hell games before now and bullet hell sounds a lot better and makes more sense the "Shmup" does

Ehhh, not quite. Bullet hell is a specific sub-genre of shmup where the screen is always filled to the brim with bullets. Think Ikaruga or Touhou. M.U.S.H.A. and Thunder Force, on the other hand, are not bullet hell games, but they are shmups.

Shmup is just short for "shoot 'em up."

 

[crazygameguy4ever]

i'll admit i only checked this post out cause i had no idea what a "shmup" was.. based on what i see though a "shmup" is a strange word for bullet hell games.. never heard them called anything other then bullet hell games before now and bullet hell sounds a lot better and makes more sense the "Shmup" does

Ehhh, not quite. Bullet hell is a specific sub-genre of shmup where the screen is always filled to the brim with bullets. Think Ikaruga or Touhou. M.U.S.H.A. and Thunder Force, on the other hand, are not bullet hell games, but they are shmups.

Shmup is just short for "shoot 'em up."

I've never heard of the games you named... but this is the first time i've heard the term Shumps.. i'd just call them shooters

 

[Smooth Operator]

I really only play them up to the Galaga level, where you get less incoming bullets but need to dispatch enemies with greater precision, that just feels like a meatier experience to me.
I do understand the excitement of bullet hell games but when you need to concentrate only on moving your ship and the rest of it is simply spray and pray I find it kind of a waste.

 

[FPLOON]

I remember playing this one shmup a long time ago involving a [small] ship in space, asteroids, aliens, a way to switch how you want your upgrades to be placed after you got them on the fly (which lead to a cheap way of filling the whole screen with nothing but your default blaster shots), and the phrase "destruction imminent" being spoken by your on-board computer whenever you were one shot away from dying, thus leading to losing all of your stocked-up upgrades...

With that said, I still love shmups, but I kinda now suck at them because I don't play them as often as I used to back then... Maybe if I go to, like, a "Dave & Busters" and they just so happen to have, at least, one or two there, then I would most likely play that in a heartbeat...

 

[Doom972]

I used to play them when I was a kid. My favorite was Tyrian. They were hard games so I didn't finish any of them except for Tyrian, which unlike most of them, allowed saving after each mission.

 

[Someone Depressing]

Eh, I sometimes play them. Xbox Live Indie Games is full of terrible games, a large percentage of which are shmups.

I am excited for a game called Undertale, which has bullet-hell components. That's it, really.