Poll: Should homosexuality be considered a criminal offense/act? Also, what's your view on Morality?

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Trying to stop human rights violations is not a bad thing. Force these countries to shape up or stop giving them aid. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Rin Little]

If people are still willing to be blinded by religion and ancient teachings and abuse/cast out those who are homosexual because of it, they don't deserve any help.

And quite frankly, I think all the moral philosophy is a bunch of crap. I can appreciate philosophers for coming up with unique and creative concepts but come on. People used to believe Descartes theory that we could be any type of being and the life we think we're living could be the product of demonic possession or some other hallucination and the only thing we could be certain of is "I think therefore I am."

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I'm starting to go a little off topic, but my point is that I don't think the West can claim to be "better" on all forms of human rights, given the fact that even various governments in the West suppresses opinions that are unpopular.

I didn't say "all forms of human rights" I said "numerous human rights issues". I also said we're morally "better" I didn't say we were morally "perfect" or even "best".

fair enough, I wrongly assumed that by saying former, you were also hinting later as well.

 

[Terminal Blue]

snip

Ironically, what you're doing here is also a form of cultural imperialism, more precisely it's Orientalism. You've homogenized the entire population of Africa into one coherent mass of "culture" diametrically opposed to "the West".

There are huge numbers of people in Africa who identify as gays and lesbians. Are they African, yes. Are they culturally African, I don't see why not. Wherein these people cannot rely on their own political process or state infrastructure to safeguard them from harm, where they are prevented from having any say or role within the politics of their own country which might ultimately lead to reform, then I think there is something to gain in having Western governments, at the very least, promoting internal reform. Noone is suggesting military intervention or forcing everyone in Africa to undergo sensitivity training, but just as it would be negligent to work with a regime which conducts genocide simply because it's the status quo and you don't want to pass judgement, it's negligent to ignore the fact that countries often unfairly criminalize segments of their own population.

You're right that there is a dangerous side to this, called "homonationalism". When you seek to claim that gays and lesbians regardless of where they live are somehow "Western", that gay and lesbian identity is a vital and central part of what it means to be "Western", or that there aren't significant problems with the treatment of LGBT people in "the West", then you've crossed a dangerous line. But I think contextual action to promote internal reform in countries which legally persecute sexual orientation I think there is no real harm in saying that it's unacceptable.

As for the poll, I find it slightly incomplete. By your definition I would be a 'moral nihilist', but in reality I'm not a nihilist at all. The lack of belief in universal morality doesn't preclude taking an ethical position.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Yeah, sure, it's cultural imperialism. That doesn't automatically make it wrong. I think cultural identity is a load of bullshit anyway, and I'm tired of people hiding behind their culture or their religion every time they want to justify doing something retarded.

Anyway, moral nihilist here.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

snip

Ironically, what you're doing here is also a form of cultural imperialism, more precisely it's Orientalism. You've homogenized the entire population of Africa into one coherent mass of "culture" diametrically opposed to "the West".

There are huge numbers of people in Africa who identify as gays and lesbians. Are they African, yes. Are they culturally African, I don't see why not. Wherein these people cannot rely on their own political process or state infrastructure to safeguard them from harm, where they are prevented from having any say or role within the politics of their own country which might ultimately lead to reform, then I think there is something to gain in having Western governments, at the very least, promoting internal reform. Noone is suggesting military intervention or forcing everyone in Africa to undergo sensitivity training, but just as it would be negligent to work with a regime which conducts genocide simply because it's the status quo and you don't want to pass judgement, it's negligent to ignore the fact that countries often unfairly criminalize segments of their own population.

You're right that there is a dangerous side to this, called "homonationalism". When you seek to claim that gays and lesbians regardless of where they live are somehow "Western", that gay and lesbian identity is a vital and central part of what it means to be "Western", or that there aren't significant problems with the treatment of LGBT people in "the West", then you've crossed a dangerous line. But I think contextual action to promote internal reform in countries which legally persecute sexual orientation I think there is no real harm in saying that it's unacceptable.

As for the poll, I find it slightly incomplete. By your definition I would be a 'moral nihilist', but in reality I'm not a nihilist at all. The lack of belief in universal morality doesn't preclude taking an ethical position.

the choice wasn't just universalism or nihilism. Relativism was also a choice.

 

[See Spot Run]

I can't think of a more dull and dreary thing I could possibly do in the entirety of human existence than listening to someone drone on about philosophy.

Thinking is hard.

 

[Cain_Zeros]

This isn't a "Westerners trying to force their views on other countries" thing though. This is a "countries with enough clout to influence this sort of thing standing up for human rights" thing, regardless of the supposed morals of the country being nudged in the right direction.

 

[PurePareidolia]

Manipulating people into more tolerance for basic human rights is pretty definitely a good thing as far as I'm concerned. And I'm a moral relativist.

This is a way better way of doing these things than fighting a war or something.

 

[Satosuke]

This is probably one of the dumbest questions put to poll I've ever seen on a message board.

Seriously, I know the quality of discourse around here is already pretty subpar, but really? this just screams 'pointless' or "TROLL POST" or 'FLAMEWAR BAIT'. For fuck's sake...

Either way, answer to the first question: no and you're a FUCKING RETARD if you say yes.

Answer to second question: Morality is an ingrained thing in humanity. The people who lack it are diagnosed as suffering from certain mental disorders such as psychopathy, Antisocial personality disorder, and whatever mental defect Chris Brown has.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

EDIT: FUCK!!! I just broke my new years resolution.... oh well.... here ya go anyways....

Do Western Nations have the right to (try to) manipulate the laws of other countries, if they go against the social norms of Western (their) culture?

Absolutely.

Is it wrong for Western Nations to try to manipulate others so that they agree with the social norms of Western (their) culture?

Not at all.

Welcome to reality. People have been trying to impose their will on others (centuries) before you were born. If you pay close enough attention, there are plenty of minorities who visit this website, who would rather you believe as they do than have you decide for yourself.

I got something, you can't have it unless you belong to my group.

or

I Have these things for my group, you aren't going to get them unless you swear to us.

or

You aren't like us, you won't get these things till you change to be like us.

It's all how the world is.

EDIT 2: Can someone explain what the poll options mean?

NOTE: For the poll answers, CI stands for Cultural Imperialism, MU stands for Moral Universalism, MR stands for Moral Relativism, an MN stands for Moral Nihilism.

is a bit vague as far as I'm concerned...

sorry, it's my poor attempt to see what how people felt through the use of polls, and the I tried doing that by including every possible answer that a person could have for the two questions I asked.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

Should homosexuality be a criminal offence? I don't need to be complicated about this. The answer is No. No No No No a million fucking times NO.

 

[Samus Aran but a man]

My reaction to the title was "WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?!!!!!!!!!!"

glad to know it was an intellectual and thoughtful discussion on Cultural Imperialism

 

[Johann610]

No, you cannot force your morals on people that don't want them. Yes, I encourage all other ways of making it so, such as television.

 

[viranimus]

It is categorically wrong to impose your beliefs on others. Im sorry, but it is not even in question.

The bogus part of it is that it is the United States who is all too often guilty of this. Somewhere along the line in American foreign policy the meaning of the words in the Declaration of Independence that read

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

gets lost and viewed as if they do not apply to those people who do not live here and use it as an opportunity to deprive other sovereign nations and their people the same rights by trying to force the world to conform to the US model.

Existence is a subjective matter and as such morality is nothing more than what a collective has deemed appropriate behavior. What right does one collective of people have to tell another collective of people that what they agreed was acceptable behavior was wrong?

Seriously, whatever happened to minding your own damned business? Given the cited quotation about Hillary Clinton and the US giving aid in exchange for compliance I have to ask, why the fuck is the US offering to waste money on controlling the way other countries are governed when it seems that now the US cant go 6 months without having a budget crisis that the fate of the money of those in the military, on social security or disability hangs in the balance and teeters on those people not getting paid? Seriously, get your own house in order first before you start complaining about how your neighbor runs theirs.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

In a hundred years I swear people will love homosexuals for not contributing to the population And no it shouldnt be an offence, I know it may seem wrong that western countries are interfering with the culture of other countries, but is it right that gays should be persecuted simply due to their life choice?