Poll: Should National Service be introduced

[Zacharine]

Freedom, while it should be an intrinsic universal right, isn't. Sometimes you have to pay for it. Sometimes your grandparents paid for it.

But someone pays.

'In peace prepare for war, in war prepare for peace. The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence under no circumstances can it be neglected.'
- Sun Tzu, The Art Of War.

"Without war no State could be. All those we know of arose through war, and the protection of their members by armed force remains their primary and essential task. War, therefore, will endure to the end of history, as long as there is a multiplicity of states."
- Heinrich von Treitschke

"Without harmony in the State, no military expedition can be undertaken; without harmony in the army, no battle array can be formed."
- Wu Tzu

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
- George Orwell

"To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace."
- George Washington

 

[Gestapo Hunter]

Freedom is all about shitting on you next door neighbor. Dont worry guys i do it too.

 

[Bluebacon]

Freedom, while it should be an intrinsic universal right, isn't. Sometimes you have to pay for it. Sometimes your grandparents paid for it.

But someone pays.

'In peace prepare for war, in war prepare for peace. The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence under no circumstances can it be neglected.'
- Sun Tzu, The Art Of War.

"Without war no State could be. All those we know of arose through war, and the protection of their members by armed force remains their primary and essential task. War, therefore, will endure to the end of history, as long as there is a multiplicity of states."
- Heinrich von Treitschke

"Without harmony in the State, no military expedition can be undertaken; without harmony in the army, no battle array can be formed."
- Wu Tzu

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
- George Orwell

"To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace."
- George Washington

"Only the dead have seen the end of war"
-Plato

 

[Spirit_Of_Fire]

Hell no. I don't want to have to join the army against my will.

 

[Legion]

As a military brat, being born to a service man, raised by them, and spending most of my live surrounded by barb wire. I may be slightly more bias to the concept of National Service than others.

My father left the army 6 years ago, and since then, I have been in civilian life. In my personal opinion, many of todays problems, I think could be partially, or even fully cured by National Service. it worked for our Grandfathers, and their dads, and so on.

2 years, discipline, friends, travel, possibly find a calling. It could help sort out yob culture, show the reality behind violence. I don't want to sound like the fascist everyone associates with National Service Nowadays.

Also, I am open to people showing my the downsides of it. Personally, I can't think of many, other than preference.

(I am not aware in concrete about other countries outside the UK, as I don't want to assume certain countries don't have it when they might)

As long as overseas deployment is not mandatory (You serve the military but are not forced into a warzone) I think it's a good idea.

 

[sabotstarr]

how is that a joke???

If I misread your sarcasm excuse me, but I fail to see how Isreal needs White phosphorus to drive a group of humans into the ocean. No they don't need it! They need to stop the fucking war!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_Pete

you don't seem to understand that the nations attacking ISRAEL are attempting to push them into the sea, not the other way around. In what case have they attacked another nation without a threat, direct or indirect, of destroying them and killing them?????

 

[PersianLlama]

*snip*

Betewen the old never change voters and the easy impressed kids with nukes, let the Devil come and choose which one is worst.

Yes, the kids who prefer a secular government are definitely in competition with crazy old religious guys who want it to be a theocracy.

The kids don't have nukes and don't care about nukes. The government isn't employed by "kids" and the kids don't have boners for war or death.

You have to realize that a majority of the population of Iran (Especially the younger ones)) is the antithesis to our president (Who is a tool for the Ayatollah).

 

[Cowabungaa]

2 years, discipline, friends, travel, possibly find a calling.

That reminds me of something, it's called getting an education, and doesn't (necessarily) involve death and destruction. Going to college or even university to learn a trade, or getting forced (because that's what you're suggesting) to learn how to kill people. Gee I don't know, what would be more constructive and usefull for one's life...

We can evolve passed human nature (this is a big thing for one to say).

[nitpicking mode] Ofcourse we can't evolve passed human nature, our human nature will only change into something else. It will still be human nature, ofcourse, only different than before. [/nitpicking mode]

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

I think Conscription out of highschool is a good Idea, but it should also have exceptions in the case of college and the like, but at some time I think everyone should put in at least 2 years to the service of their nation.

Having served in the military myself it pisses me off to know end hearing people ***** about every little thing going wrong when their biggest contribution has to pay taxes. Its not like they have to send in a check every month, you do taxes once a year. As far as I am concerned, if people are not at least willing to put down their lives for the nations they live in(unless its an oppressive regime) then they should sit down and shut up.


Sometimes I wish they adopt a system like in Starship troopers(cheesy movie), unless you serve you cant vote or be open for any of the other governmental programs available.

You're a genius!

No.

Millitary service, so I can invade a country for oil and because my country is pussy whipped into doing what America wants. Great.

Besides, as evil as I occasionaly pretend to be, I'm a pacifist, I would avoid killing completely, regardless of the consequences. At least my country doesn't have the death sentence.

Anyway, you can't force people to waste two years of there life on something they don't want to be doing. It's unfair.

 

[sallene]

All right people, stop quoting me, just label me as a jackass and move on please, I will edit my initial post as I didnt write it out well enough and I really have no motivation to get tied up in this debate.

 

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

I am liking the way this is going. A lot of different fors' and againsts'. I particularly liked Jandau's against and Saksak's for.

 

[Raregolddragon]

They try that pull that shit there will be a revolution.

 

[PurpleRain]

We only progressed out of the trees because we needed to. We are only now not constantly threatened with death. We got out of the trees to hunt better food, develop better weapons and tech. As for people being corrupt. Do you truly, truly trust anyone? You do not really think anyone would steal from you, cheat on you or just generally screw you over to advance themselves?

This part makes me sad. Do you not trust anyone? I find this statement very... yeah, just sad. I trust nearly everyone with anything in my life. I know none of my friends and family would attempt to screw me over. I could hand them a million dollars each and tell them not to spend it while I leave the country for a quick sec and still be sure that they will keep it safe for me.

As for the cheating and screwing me over part, that was is semi-offensive. I would believe in the human race, the minority would be like this. I have met such a great and amazing person. I surrounded myself with fantastic people.

Either you have a warped and cynical view of people, or something bad happened to you in the past. I'm betting the latter, otherwise it's going to be hard for you.

We can evolve passed human nature (this is a big thing for one to say).

[nitpicking mode] Ofcourse we can't evolve passed human nature, our human nature will only change into something else. It will still be human nature, ofcourse, only different than before. [/nitpicking mode]

Well, change yes. I mean, if our nature were to stay the same from whe we were monkies, the world would be similar to Mad Max.

 

[Del-Toro]

People like you, ho refer to non-military personnel as "civvies" and think that pacifists should not be allowed to rule a nation are why wars are started. Most wars are started because one nation gets paranoid about the military buildup of another. A free nation means just that, you have the freedom to do anything within the law. You aren't FORCED into anything you wouldn't want to do. If your nation does conscription, it's no better than North Korea.

Nobody is calling Switzerland a fascist state and they require their young men to serve 2 years at a certain age, I think it's 19. It's balanced by their nation being socialist up the wazoo and the state doing a helluva lot for it's citizens, and since the military is purely defensive (Swiss neutrality) and they don't go around like the US has. Also, they get paid for repaying the country which will do so much for them during their life, and since Switzerland isn't likely to be invaded anytime soon it's basically just a two year paid excersise regime where they have to lug rifles and such. Besides, I have to agree that military discipline would do the western world some good, this generation is probably the laziest yet and the most whiney so having to actually do something might get us to shape up. If it's just two years we won't be turning into the far right fascist nazi state everyone is afraid of since after your done in the forces you are finished with it and the skills you learned there will help you when it comes time to do a civilian job. In other words, You're wrong, Switzerland is better than North Korea, which is a left wing government by virtue of it being communist you drug addled spaz.

 

[Del-Toro]

Freedom, while it should be an intrinsic universal right, isn't. Sometimes you have to pay for it. Sometimes your grandparents paid for it.

But someone pays.

'In peace prepare for war, in war prepare for peace. The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence under no circumstances can it be neglected.'
- Sun Tzu, The Art Of War.

"Without war no State could be. All those we know of arose through war,

Actually, the Czech Republic and Slovakia arose through mutual, peaceful political divorce:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_Czechoslovakia

Bullshit, both of those nations, when they were Czechslovakia, were literally torn right out of the German Empire after WW1, as was ordered by the treaty of versailles, those people would be German in a just world, but then, we don't live in a just world, especially not one where poeple are denied promotions they earned because of their race, and I'm not just refering to black people.

 

[Del-Toro]

Freedom, while it should be an intrinsic universal right, isn't. Sometimes you have to pay for it. Sometimes your grandparents paid for it.

But someone pays.

'In peace prepare for war, in war prepare for peace. The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence under no circumstances can it be neglected.'
- Sun Tzu, The Art Of War.

"Without war no State could be. All those we know of arose through war,

Actually, the Czech Republic and Slovakia arose through mutual, peaceful political divorce:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_Czechoslovakia

Bullshit, both of those nations, when they were Czechslovakia, were literally torn right out of the German Empire after WW1, as was ordered by the treaty of versailles, those people would be German in a just world, but then, we don't live in a just world, especially not one where poeple are denied promotions they earned because of their race, and I'm not just refering to black people.

Freedom, while it should be an intrinsic universal right, isn't. Sometimes you have to pay for it. Sometimes your grandparents paid for it.

But someone pays.

'In peace prepare for war, in war prepare for peace. The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence under no circumstances can it be neglected.'
- Sun Tzu, The Art Of War.

"Without war no State could be. All those we know of arose through war,

Actually, the Czech Republic and Slovakia arose through mutual, peaceful political divorce:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_Czechoslovakia

Bullshit, both of those nations, when they were Czechslovakia, were literally torn right out of the German Empire after WW1, as was ordered by the treaty of versailles, those people would be German in a just world,

Hmm...

If it's just two years we won't be turning into the far right fascist nazi state everyone is afraid of

Well, it seems not *everyone* is 'afraid' as much as 'secretly hoping'

Hilarious, I'm not hoping for some return to nazism, that would suck, I don't need to go into long winding details about why it would suck, and to imply that I'm a nazi is basically voiding your arguement. All I was saying is that to assume that national service would turn us into nazi germany is paranoia at best and close mindedness at worst, and that the idea should have some though put into it.

 

[Kubanator]

This is Nazism. If you don't already know, Nazi stands for National Socialist German Workers Party.

National, meaning nationalistic, right wing.

Socialist, meaning economic equality, left wing.

By conscription, you force people into serving their nation, and make them all equal economically. Meaning Nazism.

The Nazi party was actually had good ideas, it was simply that Hitler took power that turned them evil.