Poll: Should Western forces be in Afghanistan?

[Lord Kloo]

Ok, I'm making this thread basically because I need a public opinion for a debate I'm doing for my college debating society. I will be arguing for the motion to pull British and other forces from Afghanistan and therefore against the war and occupation there. Even so I still need to know how people think about if US and NATO forces should be there and mainly there arguments for both sides so I can get a good idea of what to say in my speech (and so I can make some counter-arguments up in advance).

So basically put your vote down and say why you believe what you do..

EDIT: I'm voting against the war in Afghan because of the expense of being there, the questionable legality of being there, and the moral reasoning for being there.. I haven't found much detail yet but I need more of an argument before I get into fine points.

Thanks guys, anything you put will be heartily appreciated.

 

[Nickolai77]

I assume you mean should we withdraw from Afghanistan or not?

I say not until the Afgan army can more or less take over the roll that ISAF forces are currently playing. If we leave now then the Afgan national army could probably hold the Taliban in check, but they are not quite up to full operational capacity and will probably take more casualties than they need to. It would be irresponsible of us to leave early. Give it a couple more years, keep the Taliban on the back foot and then gradually let the Afgan's take control of the situation.

It would also probably be prudent to keep supplying the Afgan regime with money, arms, and retain a few military bases from where UAV drones and air support can be kept in order to support the Afgan army when needed.

 

[Daverson]

Removing ISAF would likely cause the collapse of the democratic government, and either the Taliban, or one of the other insurgent groups taking power.

It's all good and fine for us to say we support principals like liberty and democracy, but if we're not willing to put our lives and our property on the line to protect the rights of others, then we're no better than the Taliban were.

 

[Jedoro]

Taliban attacked us, and that's where they're actually hiding. Kill the motherfuckers, and set up a stable government so there's a lesser evil to choose to be in charge.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Without a demographic chart this site isn't really reliable info.

I don't see the point of an army if you ain't gonna use it, and support humanitarian intervention.

 

[Mcface]

Taliban attacked us, and that's where they're actually hiding. Kill the motherfuckers, and set up a stable government so there's a lesser evil to choose to be in charge.

Agreed.
Though the taliban didn't attack us per say, there are plenty of Al-Queda with the taliban.

The big threat is pakistan, but Afghanistan is close behind.
(US troops are already fighting the mountains of pakistan)

 

[D33dl3]

Voted: Other.
They ARE there and so deserve/need our support. As other posters have said removing them before the Afghan army/Police are ready would be ill advised.

 

[Lord Kloo]

Without a demographic chart this site isn't really reliable info.

I don't see the point of an army if you ain't gonna use it, and support humanitarian intervention.

yeah, its not perfect but I'm only trying to see what people think (generally, and I assume its mostly western views here)) and the arguments they use so that I've got some ammunition for my debate..

 

[Thaluikhain]

Sending troops in was somewhat questionable, if defensible.

Pulling them out now...well, on one hand the country will fall apart. On the other hand, it's not in great shape now, and will probably do so whenever they get pulled out.

Afghanistan needs a massive troop influx, IMHO, and wide-reaching investigations into how the situation is being handled. As it stands, the commitment to real change is appallingly half-hearted. Human rights in Afghanistan have been generally overlooked, with women's rights (you know, the rights of an entire half the population) being ignored, lest they offend the ex-Taliban leaders in charge.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Without a demographic chart this site isn't really reliable info.

I don't see the point of an army if you ain't gonna use it, and support humanitarian intervention.

yeah, its not perfect but I'm only trying to see what people think (generally, and I assume its mostly western views here)) and the arguments they use so that I've got some ammunition for my debate..

The problem with just asking the people on the street is that you're as likely to get the opinions of crazy hobos as you are knowledgable people, and the problem with the internet is you can't tell between them.

You'd be better off reading some news articles, and then you could have some influential quotes to add power.

 

[Tdc2182]

Removing ISAF would likely cause the collapse of the democratic government, and either the Taliban, or one of the other insurgent groups taking power.

It's all good and fine for us to say we support principals like liberty and democracy, but if we're not willing to put our lives and our property on the line to protect the rights of others, then we're no better than the Taliban were.

This.

We went their for the absolutely wrong reasons, but contrary to idiotic suburban house-moms at home, we have impacted this country in a very good way. If we can stabilize the country, they have a fighting chance.

Same with Iraq. Saddam Hussein was executing people at soccer games during half-time shows.

If you are one of those people who is "not our country, none of our business" then you need to go fuck yourself (sorry mods in advance)

 

[hawkeye52]

Though the taliban didn't attack us per say, there are plenty of Al-Queda with the taliban.

Al-Queda though being a rebranded version of the Mujahideen who the US supplied and armed to fight off the Russians in the cold war era. So I guess it can be said that America is currently clearing up its own shit storm atm but dragging other nations in with it as well

 

[linwolf]

I believe that it was wrong to invade, but it would be even more wrong to just leave after the mess we have made.

 

[BonsaiK]

Fighting the taliban is actually what the taliban want, it's playing into their hands. They're only too happy to fight and die because it means they get to go straight to heaven. I'm not entirely sure what the solution to the west's problem is, but it should be fairly obvious that the real problem is fundamentalist religion and I'm not sure if you can really fight ideas with guns.

 

[Mcface]

Though the taliban didn't attack us per say, there are plenty of Al-Queda with the taliban.

Al-Queda though being a rebranded version of the Mujahideen who the US supplied and armed to fight off the Russians in the cold war era. So I guess it can be said that America is currently clearing up its own shit storm atm but dragging other nations in with it as well

Not entirely true.
Many of the current Taliban fighters are foreign fighters from places like Syria, Jordan, Chechnya and Dagestan.

 

[baker80]

If we pull out of Afghanistan now, the warlords and Taliban will take back over and everything will be even worse for the Afghani population than it used to be. Western military presence and UNO involvement is the only thing keeping the situation there even slightly stable.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Fighting the taliban is actually what the taliban want, it's playing into their hands. They're only too happy to fight and die because it means they get to go straight to heaven. I'm not entirely sure what the solution to the west's problem is, but it should be fairly obvious that the real problem is fundamentalist religion and I'm not sure if you can really fight ideas with guns.

That is perfectly true, but you do need to secure the country against immediate threats before you can secure it against long terms threats.

It seems that people have forgotten the importance of the second, though.

 

[loc978]

Regardless of why we're there, we've pulled a bunch of people's lives out of the gutter. Unfortunately, we've also ended a lot of lives. It's a mire, and we're stuck in it, but at least we're helping set up what's left for self-sustainability. The only right choices I see were either to not go there in the first place, or stay and finish what we've started.