Poll: Sidekicks...dead useful or dead weight?
- Thread starter HardRockSamurai
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The problem with most sidekicks is the AI. If the AI is too bad, they start to be a burden rather than being helpful. But if the AI is too good, they would steal too many kills and make the player feel less important.
People have been talking about sidekicks who help you as an AI, but what about those who sit on your shoulder or your back? What about those who make crude sex jokes or nerdy computer comments? What about those who can fight off giant metal bugs or can control a cyclops monkey with a banana gun? What about Daxter and Clank? Two of the greatests sidekick mascots for sony.
Sidekicks are glorified meat shields...at least in my world. If the AI was better it may be different..but until then; meat shield.
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That's not true. She's died before. She's just very very tough.runtheplacered said:
Personally, i think sidekicks are stupid... but sometimes they can help the story along by providing comic relief that wouldn't be there in a stressful situation...
And the worst part about Halo was never having AI smart enough to drive the damn vehicles
First of all, forget the help in Halo. The only time you should be using the gun on the back of warthog in single player is when everyone else is dead and it's either use that or a half-dead plasma pistol against a ghost wave. Otherwise drive the stupid thing, folks, because you can run almost everything down. I don't even notice when someone's up there trying to help me when I'm driving, to tell you the truth. Use the weapon as it was intended.
Now about sidekicks in general. How good does the AI have to be for them to do what they were created for - to absorb hits so you can get your bearings in a massive fight? I'm playing the game so I can play it, not watch the computer play itself. I noticed that playing Viking the other day. The other warriors kill everything before I even get over there. Thanks guys, but I'd like to handle it, please. There's nothing worse than playing a kill simulator that won't let you kill.
On a personal note, the best sidekick I ever had was a PC mod for Oblivion. She was a melee tank who held off the cave zombies so I could play magic a little more. Now I'm actually having fun with magic, wow!
Come on, people. Now we can't even pretend to kill things without someone else doing the killing for us. If you want to watch a movie, go watch a movie. I'd like to actually play my games, thank you. Sheesh.
Now about sidekicks in general. How good does the AI have to be for them to do what they were created for - to absorb hits so you can get your bearings in a massive fight? I'm playing the game so I can play it, not watch the computer play itself. I noticed that playing Viking the other day. The other warriors kill everything before I even get over there. Thanks guys, but I'd like to handle it, please. There's nothing worse than playing a kill simulator that won't let you kill.
On a personal note, the best sidekick I ever had was a PC mod for Oblivion. She was a melee tank who held off the cave zombies so I could play magic a little more. Now I'm actually having fun with magic, wow!
Come on, people. Now we can't even pretend to kill things without someone else doing the killing for us. If you want to watch a movie, go watch a movie. I'd like to actually play my games, thank you. Sheesh.
For sidekicks, there are a few simple questions you must ask:
1. Can they die of their own idiocy?
2. Do they get in your way?
3. Would the game be any different if they weren't there? (Such as, you can't leave the area until they're within a certain distance from the door, or they're necessary to hit a switch)
4. Can they actually kill things?
5. Do they speak outside of cutscenes/scripted moments?
If the answer to any of these questions is "yes", it's not a good sidekick. If it's yes to all, the people in charge of writing their programming, scripting their events, and the voice actor must suffer horrible deaths involving knives, fire, vinegar, and a very hungry squirrel with laser eyes.
If they have none of these, then it's all good. RE4's Ashley came close. She stuck right behind you, would only die if you sucked at the game, and when you told her to wait, she stayed still, and didn't get bored after ten seconds and decide to chase a butterfly. Unfortunately, she took ages to catch you up if you left her somewhere, and her voice was squeaky as hell. Kotor's, on the other hand, were great. They didn't speak, did virtually nothing in combat unless you told them to, and were interesting characters that you could really get to know.
1. Can they die of their own idiocy?
2. Do they get in your way?
3. Would the game be any different if they weren't there? (Such as, you can't leave the area until they're within a certain distance from the door, or they're necessary to hit a switch)
4. Can they actually kill things?
5. Do they speak outside of cutscenes/scripted moments?
If the answer to any of these questions is "yes", it's not a good sidekick. If it's yes to all, the people in charge of writing their programming, scripting their events, and the voice actor must suffer horrible deaths involving knives, fire, vinegar, and a very hungry squirrel with laser eyes.
If they have none of these, then it's all good. RE4's Ashley came close. She stuck right behind you, would only die if you sucked at the game, and when you told her to wait, she stayed still, and didn't get bored after ten seconds and decide to chase a butterfly. Unfortunately, she took ages to catch you up if you left her somewhere, and her voice was squeaky as hell. Kotor's, on the other hand, were great. They didn't speak, did virtually nothing in combat unless you told them to, and were interesting characters that you could really get to know.
Why do you want incompetent sidekicks (4)Break said:
This is bad?(5) COD4 would not make sense if the marines got shot and didn't say something like "ow"
(4) They steal your thunder. Like somebody already said, you don't play a game to watch the AI fight each other. Having a nonsentient program steal your kill is no fun at all.
(5) It's irritating. Whether they're reminding you of your destination every ten seconds, or responding to an injury with an automatic soundbite that's the exact same every time they get hurt, it's just not good.
(5) It's irritating. Whether they're reminding you of your destination every ten seconds, or responding to an injury with an automatic soundbite that's the exact same every time they get hurt, it's just not good.
(4) Isn't that what RTS games do? Or squad based games (Full spectrum warrior perfect example)?Break said:
Then just play Halo the marines are retards in it.
(5) Go into options and turn voice down to zero when in game then...
It's hard to make a good sidekick. They're either too weak and die all the time, thus ruining everything (Cpt. Keyes in Halo 1 on anything above normal), ruin quests (Morrowind, Oblivion), ect.
Or they can be mindless bullet-sponges making me feel envious of their health (Marines in Halo 2: why can low-tech dummy armor stop sniper hits in Legendary, but I die in one hit?).
Really, Alyx Vance was probably perfect: she'd kill just the right amount, play relatively intelligently, and not require much babysitting. She could die if totally neglected but it took some doing.
Usually I prefer the sense of "they're around but not right there", like when the Arbiter kind of disappears in Halo 3. He's "helping", adding to story, but not getting in my way. Or like Alyx sniping in Episode 2: again helpful, but without babysitting.
Or they can be mindless bullet-sponges making me feel envious of their health (Marines in Halo 2: why can low-tech dummy armor stop sniper hits in Legendary, but I die in one hit?).
Really, Alyx Vance was probably perfect: she'd kill just the right amount, play relatively intelligently, and not require much babysitting. She could die if totally neglected but it took some doing.
Usually I prefer the sense of "they're around but not right there", like when the Arbiter kind of disappears in Halo 3. He's "helping", adding to story, but not getting in my way. Or like Alyx sniping in Episode 2: again helpful, but without babysitting.
Voted against sidekicks....Superhero side kicks are really irratating, FPS or Third Person shooter sidekicks are the worst! Especially in Army of 2, when Rio (or Salem depending who you play as) headbutt me in the MIDDLE of a gun fight AND WE BOTH DIED, useful? I THINK NOT
Some sidekicks are badass motherf***ers who are just plain awesome.
To name a few, Alyx from Half-Life, Zero from Megaman, and Mordenkainen's sword in Baldur's Gate.
Plenty of sidekicks just plain suck and should go away.
To name a few, Slippy from Starfox, Navi from Ocarina of Time, and ANY survivors in Dead Rising.
To name a few, Alyx from Half-Life, Zero from Megaman, and Mordenkainen's sword in Baldur's Gate.
Plenty of sidekicks just plain suck and should go away.
To name a few, Slippy from Starfox, Navi from Ocarina of Time, and ANY survivors in Dead Rising.
There really should be a middle ground here...
Some games have completely retarded AI, some games have some fairly good AI, and some games have some wishy-washy AI.
Gears of War, for example. I loved having my partners with me because not only could they soak up quite a bit of damage before I had to go save them, but they could run right into battle, chainsaw three or four guys down, and then come back to cover and fire. And together with me lobbing grenades and headshooting, they were badass in a firefight.
However, on Nightfall, Dom would keep running into the shadows, getting slaughtered by Kryll, reviving himself, getting killed, reviving himself, getting killed... It was like with no enemies around he suddenly went brain dead and didn't realize that Marcus' earlier warning of 'Stay in the fucking light' vanished from his brain the moment the first kryll jammed it's razor sharp beak into his skull.
He eventually got back to the light, by the by.
I like sidekicks, they're good to have around when they're well designed and nice to use for meat shields when they're not. But I don't love them, and sometimes I wish they'd just as soon not be there as run infront of my grenade tosses, and I don't hate them because they're useful sometimes.
Some games have completely retarded AI, some games have some fairly good AI, and some games have some wishy-washy AI.
Gears of War, for example. I loved having my partners with me because not only could they soak up quite a bit of damage before I had to go save them, but they could run right into battle, chainsaw three or four guys down, and then come back to cover and fire. And together with me lobbing grenades and headshooting, they were badass in a firefight.
However, on Nightfall, Dom would keep running into the shadows, getting slaughtered by Kryll, reviving himself, getting killed, reviving himself, getting killed... It was like with no enemies around he suddenly went brain dead and didn't realize that Marcus' earlier warning of 'Stay in the fucking light' vanished from his brain the moment the first kryll jammed it's razor sharp beak into his skull.
He eventually got back to the light, by the by.
I like sidekicks, they're good to have around when they're well designed and nice to use for meat shields when they're not. But I don't love them, and sometimes I wish they'd just as soon not be there as run infront of my grenade tosses, and I don't hate them because they're useful sometimes.
Obviously depends on the game, and of course "protect and be protected" - but in general, developers make sidekicks and squadmates fit more in the "dead weight" category. I pick choice 2.
I'm sure we all remember games with "Good" sidekicks, since, those are so unique that they stand out amongst the rest.
I'm sure we all remember games with "Good" sidekicks, since, those are so unique that they stand out amongst the rest.