Poll: So... are we essentially good or evil?

Recommended Videos

solidstatemind

Digital Oracle
Nov 9, 2008
1,077
0
0
Good lord. 41 posts and no one has mentioned Friedrich Nietzsche yet. I haz sad

Seriously, Thus Spake Zarathustra and Beyond Good and Evil are perfect for this sort of discussion. One warning, they are not easy reads.
 

Dragonpit

New member
Nov 10, 2010
637
0
0
In a world where not everything is in black and white, but in shades of grey (or, if you're like me, in technocolor), people are neither. People are shaped by a variety of vectors, from their social interactions, to their interactions with their family, to their own life choices, and so on.
 

isometry

New member
Mar 17, 2010
708
0
0
I think our essentially human quality, rational thought, makes us inherently good, but our vestigial animal and plant qualities, desire for sensations, growth, and reproduction, make us evil.

It comes down to individuals. So much as someone is human he is good, and to the extent that he is an animal or plant he is evil.

solidstatemind said:
Good lord. 41 posts and no one has mentioned Friedrich Nietzsche yet. I haz sad

Seriously, Thus Spake Zarathustra and Beyond Good and Evil are perfect for this sort of discussion. One warning, they are not easy reads.
Nietzsche's analysis of master/slave morality and deconstruction of good/evil in favor of good/bad is a great contribution, and the legacy of those ideas is seen throughout the thread:

naam said:
There is nothing inherently evil or good, only perspective can make it seem so
Even though there is a lot of truth in Nietzsche's writings, and they are attractive, in a way they were already anticipated by Plato's warnings against subjectivity, and ultimately I disagree with Nietzsche, as entertaining as his analysis is.
 

ImperialSunlight

New member
Nov 18, 2009
1,269
0
0
Aurgelmir said:
We are neither.

I think we are driven by our Ego, and to feel good.

Good and Evil is generally only in the eye of the beholder, not the person doing it.
This. So, um, yeah. Not much else to add :/.
 

babinro

New member
Sep 24, 2010
2,518
0
0
I think if you were to look at humanity from a global or macro level, you'd think we are entirely evil. I'd say we're inherently good people on an individual basis. Seeking what is best for us and those we care about.

In doing so, though, we frequently step on the toes and take advantage of others around us. The act of benefiting yourself often comes directly or indirectly at the expense of someone else.
 

angryscotsman93

New member
Dec 27, 2008
137
0
0
What we are isn't good or evil, it's a subjective topic. What we ARE is a bunch of crazy violent bastards, who also have a redeeming side that upholds honor and virtue, even in the face of our more base instincts. In my humble opinion, it's an admirable, and ultimately necessary objective to ensure our survival as a species, but it's never a good idea to completely throw away that aggressiveness that made us the dominant species on Earth. After all, we may need it again someday, when some other force rises up to destroy us...
 

naam

New member
Dec 16, 2010
80
0
0
isometry said:
Nietzsche's analysis of master/slave morality and deconstruction of good/evil in favor of good/bad is a great contribution, and the legacy of those ideas is seen throughout the thread:

naam said:
There is nothing inherently evil or good, only perspective can make it seem so
Even though there is a lot of truth in Nietzsche's writings, and they are attractive, in a way they were already anticipated by Plato's warnings against subjectivity, and ultimately I disagree with Nietzsche, as entertaining as his analysis is.
Both subjectivism and objectivism seem to have some flaws. My main problem with evil however is that it seems like more of an excuse to be justified in disliking others, dismissing a gray reality for something more black and white and easier.

.. Then again I don't know a lot about Nietzsche so if the difference between good/evil and good/bad is what I think it is, this post might be a silly response :D.
 

NorthernStar

New member
Oct 24, 2011
123
0
0
Thanks to all the replies on this topic I'm realising that 'good' and 'bad' or 'evil' aren't necessarily the terms I'm looking for, as so many people have rightfully pointed out that it's so subjective. The weird thing is that I'm struggling to come up with what I actually do mean. Perhaps it's because it's an early morning here and my brain hasn't quite woken up, but perhaps it's because these concepts may be hard to actually put into words.

babinro said:
I think if you were to look at humanity from a global or macro level, you'd think we are entirely evil. I'd say we're inherently good people on an individual basis. Seeking what is best for us and those we care about.

In doing so, though, we frequently step on the toes and take advantage of others around us. The act of benefiting yourself often comes directly or indirectly at the expense of someone else.
The funny thing is, that when I read the first part of your post, the thought crossed my mind that I wouldn't consider 'seeking what is best for us and those we care about' as something 'good'. I think the words that bother me here is 'those we care about'. If we were fundamentally 'good' we wouldn't just care for those we cared about, but for the entire human race or, to put it differently, 'those we cared about' would be every single living being, whether we know them or not.
 

Sovvolf

New member
Mar 23, 2009
2,341
0
0
You know, I'd like to be pessimistic and say evil, I'd like to be on the middle ground and say either both or neither. However, from my experience, outside a few bad eggs, most people I've seen seem to have a drive in them to do the right thing. Even small acts of kindness.
 

TimeLord

For the Emperor!
Legacy
Aug 15, 2008
7,508
3
43
The success or failure of your deeds does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed. Judge yourself by the intention of your actions and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way.

The universe is vast and we are so small. There is only one thing we can ever truly control. Whether we are good or evil.
 

scar_47

New member
Sep 25, 2010
319
0
0
Good and evil are societal constructs that vary with region and time and of course on personal and societal interpretation, thus where any individual falls within the spectrum is ambiguous at best and very dependant upon cultural views. But do not delude yourself into thinking that any isn't capable of great acts of violence or evil when society fails, you cannot give an inherent quality to something thats a societal construct were survivors nothing more or less.
 

Da Orky Man

Yeah, that's me
Apr 24, 2011
2,107
0
0
Combine Rustler said:
Such concepts are somewhat meaningless, is my opinion. An easy way of oversimplifying difficult questions to the point of being obviously incorrect. (but it is still widely accepted)

Humans, in my opinion, are fundamentally selfish. That is neither "bad" nor "good". It is merely a necessity. What a human does to satisfy his needs depends on the individual, and probably even more importantly, the individual's circumstances of living and previous experiences.

And now I'm coming out of the Jolly Roger closet, risking a (deserved, since this is breaking the site's rules, even if to prove a point) ban.

I pirate shit. All kinds of shit, not bound by medium. I do it, because buying it with money is difficult in a country where money is pretty flippin' worthless and you earn a very small amount on top of that. But I have an internet connection, and I want entertainment. I'm a lonely and rather unliked individual, so I don't really have other ways to entertain myself. (I hate TV, and I do read books) The country has... curious and confusing laws regarding piracy. And very lax ones, as well. Basically, noone will do shit if anyone pirates anything, and it is extremely widespread. Am I justified? No, not really. But it is a convenient way of making me feel better (that's what entertainment is for, is it not?). And because there is no punishment, I sort of feel (even though I know otherwise) that I'm not really a bad person for doing it (the fact that everyone else does it helps).

My point: There is no punishment for doing something that is morally objectionable, so I do it. I don't think I'm an amoral person, yet I instinctively act in such a manner. Is that evil? Well... that's subjective I guess. But I wouldn't call it that..
You might want to edit away the pirating part, or you WILL get the banhammer.


Mr Somewhere said:
Good and evil does not exist, it is a construct of society, blah, blah, blah existentialism.
Well said.
 

Da_Vane

New member
Dec 31, 2007
195
0
0
It is sad that so few people think humanity is inherently good.

The fact is that humanity IS inherently good, if we actually took the time out to stop and think about it. Altruism, the true definition of goodness, isn't about doing good for the sake of doing good - it is about working together as part of a team. Humanity is, by nature, a social species that are excellent team workers, with incredible communication and collaboration skills. We tend to work together for the mutual benefit for everyone involved.

The biggest problem we fact is a lack of intelligence and a lack of trust. Both of these undermine our otherwise natural tendencies to overcome our immediate instincts and work out the best solution in any given situation. As society has evolved, it has become increasingly difficult to work out who to trust and the best solution, so we have become selfish and independent, and when you have 7 billion people all basically acting the same way, the world goes down the pan.

However, anybody who can actually take the time to think about things will realise that working with people for the mutual benefit for all is always the most efficient outcome. Sometimes we get deluded by issues of ego and the idea that life is a zero-sum game - that is, that we can succeed by making others fail - but this is not always the case. We need to be able to look past our limitations, to think beyond terms of hatred, spite, and suspicion, and see others for what they really are - people just like us.

This is often our biggest failing: we do not respect others yet demand that others respect us, because we rarely consider that other people are human beings capable of intelligent and rational thought. We are quick to dismiss them as monsters because we want to see them as unreasonable to preserve our own perceptions, than to understand others and work with them.

Yet, at the end of the day, I suspect that if the poll was phrased to ask if you thought yourself were good or evil, the people voting themselves as good would be much higher. This is how people think - that we, ourselves, are inherently good but others are often less so. Therefore, we often describe them as evil or neither. Yet, logically, if I am inherently good, so is the person I am dealing with.

It is therefore only logical to conclude that humanity itself is inherently good, even if it does have limitations and quite often lets itself down. As such, we can only strive for goodness and self-improvement. It is our ability to choose to be good which makes us human.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

RIP Eleuthera, I will miss you
Nov 9, 2010
2,980
0
0
I honestly beleive that noone in this world does anything evil, they dost do things that are perceived by others as evil... Having a sick sense of humour is not evil. The person making the joke isnt thinking 'this is wrong, but I am going to do it anyway', they actually beleive it is right.

Think back to everything you have done. Have you ever done something to deliberately hut others, be it physically or mentally, just for the sake of hurting them? Or did they always do something first that in your head warranted the response?

And if you look at that, and think, 'hmmm... No I never have done anything, unless it is defending my beleifs' then pretty much noone else has either... Its all perception. Just because someone defends a beleif you dont agree with, doesn't make them evil...

Suicide bombers are not evil. They kill themselves and others due to being misinformed, and because that is the option they honestly beleive is the right thing to do... Just because you dont beleive it, and they are targeting you, and people like you, doesn't make them evil!