Poll: So have you sent EA the email yet?

[GiantRaven]

That's funny, because if some religious extremists go and blow stuff up, people will be quick to jump to the defense of said religion and note that it was the extremists', the peoples' fault. The religion had nothing to do with it, no siree.

Interesting. Could you point out where, exactly, I said any of that?

But when someone wants to make fun of extremists, then sure enough they're insulting the ENTIRE FUCKING RELIGION.

All I know is that, if I were a Christian, I would be incredibly offended to see my religion being used in a negative manner as a publicity stunt in order to sell videogames. Is it even making fun of extremists? Is that what the world has come to; a bunch of people with signs, protesting against something, is extremism?

I honestly could not care about "common perception of gamers". I'm not a gamer. I'm a person with a multitude of interests, games among them. If anyone has an issue with how they market, then I advise you not to buy their games. That's how you bring about change, not posting preachy little internet videos.

I didn't buy any of the games. Go me! I made a difference! Oh, wait...

Also, I'm hardly a 'gamer' myself (I wish I hadn't used such a term really, it's so stupid) but I would prefer one of the biggest companies within the industry not play up the stereotypes of it's customers.

 

[FernandoV]

Well if we took that attitude with everything then we can throw any sort of progress out the window. You are taking a realistic view of the situation but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hope for progress.

Please define your idea of "progress".

Why would progress and EA's strategy be mutually exclusive?
You need to cater to the "lowest common denominator" first if you want to get anywhere.
Even within Hollywood the general idea is "Make generic blockbusters to raise the funds and reputation to make the movies you actually want to".

Just see "generic shit" as a neccessary evil to get anywhere rather than something that hurts the industry (by making it grow appareantly).

That's not what I said at all. It just seems like you're trying to snuff out people's idealism about the future of gaming when as a community people should hope for the evolution of the industry.

 

[GiantRaven]

YOU didn't say that. But are you seriously disputing it? Are you one of those people who blames the entire islamic religion for 9/11?

Of course not, the very idea is ridiculous.

1. Is your idea of a moderate Christian someone who picks up signs and starts protesting video games in the street?

Not a 'moderate Christian' as such. But I don't think the act of non-violent protest against something you disagree with can be called an act of extremism.

And I don't see how staging a mock protest at the expense of a group (religious or not) couldn't be seen as offensive to that group. It puts them in a poor light, when really it wasn't anything to do with them in the slightest.

2. The Westboro Baptist Church. People with signs, protesting against something. I guess i don't know whether to call them extremist or not, but they're pretty extreme to me.

To be honest, I'm not overly familiar with the Westboro Baptist Church. Are they the people that picketed Heath Ledger's funeral because of Brokeback Mountain? I don't know if I'd call them extremists (that always seemed like a violent idea to me) but I do think they're incredibly disrespectful.

 

[SilentHunter7]

So it's perfectly ok to create an overt advertising campaign where a game is marketed towards people under the age limit required to actually purchase it?

Yeah, why not? As long as their parents are buying it for them, what's the issue?

It's alright to have an advertising campaign that completely devalues the perceptions of videogaming as a serious form of media, in a time where an incredibly serious vote will be made on said subject?

Seriously? How can people not see this is incredibly dumb and detrimental to videogaming as an entertainment medium.

Not every drawing has to be the Mona Lisa. Sometimes we just want to check out a Thor comic. There's a place in the game industry for the Duke Nukems and Dead Spaces of the world, just as there is a place in the movie industry for the Ace Venturas and the Expendables of the world.

Just because games CAN be art, doesn't mean games HAVE to be art.

 

[GiantRaven]

Not every drawing has to be the Mona Lisa. Sometimes we just want to look up a Thor comic. There's a place in the game industry for the Duke Nukems and Dead Spaces of the world, just as there is a place in the movie industry for the Ace Venturas and the Expendables of the world.

I didn't even vaguely put forward this idea, which I don't even agree with in the first place. Yeah, all games can be different. Not every game has to push forward an ideal. I get that. I like that. I'll be out there playing Duke Nukem when it comes out. That doesn't mean it's ok to make stupid advertising campaigns that are more likely to do harm to the videogame industry than good.

Just because games CAN be art, doesn't mean games HAVE to be art.

There's a whole other topic out there if you want to discuss that. And believe me, I can discuss the shit out of that.

 

[EPolleys]

No, I have no plans to send EA an angry email about how 3 people took notice to their offensive ads and apparently I should too. As other people have previously stated this episode in particular was way too preachy to take seriously. I respect what they are trying to do but lately they just sort of come off as try-hards. I have no reason to hate EA, I have more of their games than any other publisher/developer. Not to mention their customer service is absolutely superb, they got back to me within the hour after complaining about how my veteran status in Bad Company 2 wasn't working so they just went ahead and gave me veteran status for ALL previous Battlefield games.

 

[Staskala]

Well if we took that attitude with everything then we can throw any sort of progress out the window. You are taking a realistic view of the situation but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hope for progress.

Please define your idea of "progress".

Why would progress and EA's strategy be mutually exclusive?
You need to cater to the "lowest common denominator" first if you want to get anywhere.
Even within Hollywood the general idea is "Make generic blockbusters to raise the funds and reputation to make the movies you actually want to".

Just see "generic shit" as a neccessary evil to get anywhere rather than something that hurts the industry (by making it grow appareantly).

That's not what I said at all. It just seems like you're trying to snuff out people's idealism about the future of gaming when as a community people should hope for the evolution of the industry.

I'm "snuffing out" something?

Sorry, but I'm not the one going around telling others how a community should behave.

Why is it that with idealism always comes a holier-than-thou attitude?

 

[SilentHunter7]

Not every drawing has to be the Mona Lisa. Sometimes we just want to look up a Thor comic. There's a place in the game industry for the Duke Nukems and Dead Spaces of the world, just as there is a place in the movie industry for the Ace Venturas and the Expendables of the world.

I didn't even vaguely put forward this idea, which I don't even agree with in the first place. Yeah, all games can be different. Not every game has to push forward an ideal. I get that. I like that. I'll be out there playing Duke Nukem when it comes out. That doesn't mean it's ok to make stupid advertising campaigns that are more likely to do harm to the videogame industry than good.

Is it hurting the industry? I don't think so. Interactive entertainment is a 100 billion dollar industry [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/103064-Videogame-Industry-Worth-Over-100-Billion-Worldwide]. People who don't play anyway getting the wrong impression isn't likely to put a dent in that.

-Edited: I low-balled the worth of the industry

 

[GiantRaven]

Is it hurting the industry? I don't think so. Interactive entertainment is a 100 billion dollar industry [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/103064-Videogame-Industry-Worth-Over-100-Billion-Worldwide]. People who don't play anyway getting the wrong impression isn't likely to put a dent in that.

-Edited: I low-balled the worth of the industry

People getting the wrong impression are just customers who haven't been given the right impression yet.

 

[FernandoV]

Well if we took that attitude with everything then we can throw any sort of progress out the window. You are taking a realistic view of the situation but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hope for progress.

Please define your idea of "progress".

Why would progress and EA's strategy be mutually exclusive?
You need to cater to the "lowest common denominator" first if you want to get anywhere.
Even within Hollywood the general idea is "Make generic blockbusters to raise the funds and reputation to make the movies you actually want to".

Just see "generic shit" as a neccessary evil to get anywhere rather than something that hurts the industry (by making it grow appareantly).

That's not what I said at all. It just seems like you're trying to snuff out people's idealism about the future of gaming when as a community people should hope for the evolution of the industry.

I'm "snuffing out" something?

Sorry, but I'm not the one going around telling others how a community should behave.
I think it is well within my rights to argue back when people tell me what to do something I don't agree with.

Why is it that with idealism always comes a holier-than-thou attitude?

I said it seems. Stop being so sensitive; I'm trying to have a conversation here, not accuse you. Jesus Christ.

 

[Not-here-anymore]

Do films, a game trailers equal...

Since when? Film as a popular fiction media is far larger and has a much greater following than games. As a result, it is better understood and has earned a pass of sorts for portraying more mature material, if only because it's been around for longer.

Gaming hasn't been around long enough to gain the maturity to allow it to show more grown-up/uncomfortable stuff, so can't afford to be beset by campaigns suggesting that such material is included 'for teh lulz'.

Imagine if the first western films had been countered by groups suggesting that the endless sand blunted the imagination, or that the sheriff as a hero figure idolised authority too much. Then imagine the film's producers had jumped on bored suggesting that 'Your Mum says no to authority'. Think what that would have done to societal evolution (OK, bad example. But the point's there)

 

[Dogstile]

No, the marketing is brilliant and it works. "Oh no, it hurts the gaming community" no, it really doesn't. A couple trailers from one company won't hurt an entire industry.

 

[Dragonpit]

Reading all this posts I can see a lot going on, but it occurred to me as I read the arguments that "EA's business position is simply this and we should just leave it alone" that the underlying core of this whole argument overall is, to put it simply, what is it that we want from our games.

The truth of the matter is we can't simply make EA listen to us. They seek to do business and that's the way of things. And the truth is, with things as they are, that's acceptable. But that's only if we want games to improve as games alone.

I don't know. I don't see anything wrong with that, honestly, but that feels like a squandering of potential here. Games can be so much more than just games. They can be art. They have writing. They have visuals. They have acting. The interactive medium they offer is simply a bonus, and if we want it to be acknowledged as such...the truth is EA's little marketing scheme is gonna hurt.

Whether or not something is art is dependent on the view of the public at large, but the stereotype is that video games are generally for kids. We know this isn't true and that the average gamer is in his 30's. This brings about a second stereotype: the average gamer lives with his mom and has absolutely no life. Again we know this is false. But these two stereotypes are the main enemy of games becoming a form of art. EA's Dead Space commercial only further serves to reinforce these stereotypes.

Again, EA is only a business and the commercial does do what it does best: market the game. As far as games go by themselves, nothing wrong with that. I cannot stress that enough. But for games as an art medium...well, let's analyze it. The game is rated M for Mature, ages 17 and up, but the game is being marketed towards teenagers below the rating's suggested guideline. Sure, the ESRB rating system is a guideline and not the law, but it does nothing to allay stereotypes. But then, if it were just a guideline, we wouldn't have cashiers refusing to sell M-rated games to unattended kids, even when they have the money.

So what can be done about this? As it has been stated numerous time throughout the thread, EA isn't about to respond to boycotts or angry vid letters. So I'm thinking, if anyone wants EA to change their marketing policy, they should probably just get a position in EA's marketing department, a job where they'll matter, and change things. Success in any perspective is up in the air, but it will be more likely to show results, both good and bad.

And as far as Extra Credits goes, they have made their point. They have made their position clear, and they are defending and supporting it. Preachy or not, this is their opinion and they are sharing it. It's still up to the public to decide what to make of it. If anybody does not like what they are saying, then I have to ask: why are they watching in the first place? Or even, why aren't the making their own videos and providing their own counterpoint?

That where this pompous, sonuva!@#$% stands.

 

[wolfchylde]

The problem is, pandering is STILL pandering, and the 'everyone does it' answer is about as paper-thin as you can get.

I thought Dante's Inferno was an awful God of War wannabe, and I remember all their attempts at marketing it only reminded me how HARD they were trying to be 'cool' and 'edgy'... And you know what? It came off exactly like a room full of people out of touch with the current world came up with this marketing plan. It so painfully missed the mark and was so transparently idiotic that it insulted me to the point I wouldn't give it a second look. The Dead Space 2 campaign? Again, so painfully desperate to force 'controversy' into the mix that I rolled my eyes and said 'pass'.

People may call Extra Credits 'preachy' on that one, but ultimately the point is still valid: If you're still relying on 'controversy' (and painfully forced controversy at that!) to market your game, you come off as shallow, desperate, and out of touch. Games CAN and DO sell on their merits, so the necessity to stoop to the lowest grade pandering doesn't actually BENEFIT the games they're trying to sell, if anything they ultimately wind up HURTING sales.

Also, considering how awful the general level of spelling and punctuation are on this board, I don't think spamming pants-on-head retarded posts to them to watch a video here would do much good overall.

 

[GiantRaven]

To pretend that that kind of protest would never happen is to wrap yourself in convenient lies and ignore every other protest started by some dumbass christians in the bible belt for whatever stupid reason.

Where am I even making reference to this idea? You keep pulling things out of thin air. I never said that it was impossible for such a protest to happen. The act of potential protest means nothing. What is important is the huge company staging a protest in order to generate sales, creating a falsification upon a group. I wonder how many people, upon hearing about that protest THAT WAS TOTALLY REAL (!), made angry, rude or derogatory comments towards the group that organised that TOTALLY REAL (!) protest. Did such a group deserve those comments (if they indeed occurred but, the internet being what it is, I'm assuming they did), despite the fact that they didn't participate in the protest at all and, in actual fact, it was all subterfuge on the part of the protest's recipient.

Does christianity get blamed for those people's ignorance? No. Are protests like that one unexistent or completely exaggerated? No.

What an earth are you going on about? You have completely lost me.

Are you in the right in being offended if a marketing campaign wants to attract attention to itself my making itself the target of false controversy through the actions of people hired to impersonate idiots? NO.

So, in essence, you are saying that it's ok for one person to put words in the mouth of another in order to generate awareness for themselves?

Is it ok if I, for example, did this...

I do say, that GiantRaven fellow sure is of the unsavoury sort. He should be banned I say! Banned!

Of course it isn't ok to do that, because I'm putting words in your mouth, much like EA did when they started a fake protest.

But what gets on my tits is people throwing the term "offended" around like they haven't gotten out of their comfy fucking houses their entire life. Damn, people's feelings are sure sensitive in this day and age. Oh no, the NANNY ASSOCIATION got all teary-eyed, whatever are we going to fucking do. It's obviously clear that video game designers wanted to shoot out a big fuck-you to all the nannies out there because they're bad people and they hate nannies. Therefore, video games are bad! One logical fallacy after another! And we're caving in to this shit because we don't want to hurt anyone's feewings.

There's no reason not to be nice.

Diversity is key. If people want to berate Dante's Inferno for being childish and idiotic, then let them berate Dante's Inferno, NOT videogames. By choosing to follow the same "sensible" trend with every title, we risk comfirming everyone's instinct of lobbing video games all into one big group and judging them all at the same time.

I couldn't give a shit about the actual game. I'm all for a variety of videogame content. What I take issue with is the idiotic manner in which they advertised the game.

Oh, and yeah, the WBC. With all the attention this community offers them i thought they'd be common knowledge around here. Pretty much religious nutjobs who do all the damage they can without actually touching someone. Yes, the ones who protested Heath Ledger.

They seem to have passed me by somehow. From what little I know of them, I can't say that I'm a fan.

 

[mitchell271]

I doubt EA really care what Extra Credits says either way - marketing is about getting as much publicity as possible from a specific demographic - and their advertising campaigns have done that very well, for the most part; making gaming news sites such as this one because they're so "controversial" [in the case of Dante's Inferno]. They meet the demographics they're aiming for; the largest current target market for game.

I see what you're getting at: any publicity is good publicity. at least, that's what marketers think. But what EA is doing is hurting the industry.

I recently did an experiment involving my film studies and my media studies teachers. I showed them a couple video's of Extra Credits and I showed them the Dante's Inferno contest. I then asked them which of the two would greater influence the general public's opinion of video games. They both agreed that the Dante's Inferno contest would. That is not good. When one piece of a new and exciting form of media is shown to the world, people let one example color their idea of the rest.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

its...advertising?

seriously?

Big deal, if you don't like the games, then don't buy them, if you do, then awesome, get em.

nuff said.

personally, i'd pick EA every day over some other publishers, and god forbid if apple got into the mix

EA all the way if thats the case.

 

[Penguinness]

Is EA's marketing hurting the industry? Is there a chart with number of gamers heading towards 0 with EA's marketing over time? I bet you'd hear that everything was hurting the industry if you asked enough people, everyone certainly has a bone to pick with every company making games, like they'd do much better.

Sure, the guys from extra credits have a passion for gaming, I don't know what they do, if they just do extra credits or actually have industry experience.. it's alright to watch at times, but this particular episode is far too preechy, you could even say it hurts the industry.