Poll: So hypothetically , if heaven and hell exists , where do you think you'll be sent?
- Thread starter krazykidd
- Start date
Recommended Videos
What most non-devout chirstian/cathloic/whatever is that all u have to do to go to heaven is believe jesus exist. Simple as that.
Unfortunately I cannot answer that because, hypothetically, were I religous, I would need to decide what religion to follow, each having their own version of heaven and hell and what you need to do to get there. Also, after that you have to decide how to interprit the text, and that is possibly the most difficult thing.
Say, for example, that I chose Catholicism. Am I to take into account the old testament? Or am I to focus plainly on the new?
When it comes down to it, however, it's most likely that we'll all go to hell, even if you repent for your sins and there are plenty of bad things done in life that perhaps we forgot because it is not so bad as to make us feel guilty. There was an interesting thought from Dante's Inferno (the book, of course) that if you do not repent for something that is too minor to contradict the commandments but on the whole isn't right, you would go to one of the great cities of the dead to repent for eternity.
There is another interesting paradox, and if anyone can remember its full title please message me, where if you do believe in God, there is a chance you will go to heaven and a chance that you will just die, the eternal oblivion of death being hell, not being concous. if you are against God, however, then you shall just face death and never be repented.
Say, for example, that I chose Catholicism. Am I to take into account the old testament? Or am I to focus plainly on the new?
When it comes down to it, however, it's most likely that we'll all go to hell, even if you repent for your sins and there are plenty of bad things done in life that perhaps we forgot because it is not so bad as to make us feel guilty. There was an interesting thought from Dante's Inferno (the book, of course) that if you do not repent for something that is too minor to contradict the commandments but on the whole isn't right, you would go to one of the great cities of the dead to repent for eternity.
There is another interesting paradox, and if anyone can remember its full title please message me, where if you do believe in God, there is a chance you will go to heaven and a chance that you will just die, the eternal oblivion of death being hell, not being concous. if you are against God, however, then you shall just face death and never be repented.
The Heaven you describe is Dante Alighieri's Paradise.Madara XIII said:
And that's my point - Dante wasn't a priest, a visionary, or a philosopher - he was a fiction writer. His version of Heaven/Hell - which is what most people think of - has no basis in any actual faith. His Paradise and Inferno are NOT how the church described Heaven and Hell.
Well, they weren't until after his books got popular. Then a lot of priests started using that imagery BECAUSE it was popular.
Using the works of Dante to understand the Christian Heaven and Hell would be like using a modern work of fiction (like, say, Bayonetta. Or South Park). Would you really want to base a major issue of your faith on Bayonetta? On South Park?
... actually, "Lucifer" was the name of a Babylonian king that was mistakenly translated. Dante is to blame for confusing Lucifer and the Christian "devil."Misho- said:
Also, Satan isn't a name - it's a title. Ha-Satan is any angel that Adonai sends to wreck shit on Earth. When Adonai sent Samael to destroy everything that Job loved, Samael was acting as Ha-Satan.
When Adonai sent Uriel to kill all the firstborn of Egypt, Uriel was acting as Ha-Satan.
Of course, I'm talking Kabbalistic Jewish mysticism here - and since there is no hell, and are no true fallen Angels in the Jewish faith, there is no "devil" - so all Ha-Satans are appointed by Adonai for specific missions, which they carry out.
So yeah, basically whenever Adonai needs an Angel of Death, he picks an Angel to be Ha-Satan and sends them on a mission.
Oh, and to be clear, Jewish mysticism does provide for fallen angels - they are condemned to wander the Earth until they make nice and are forgiven. Rahib, Angel of the Deeps, got shackled in the ocean for being a naughty boy. He's got some other names too: Kracken, Leviathan, Lord of Storms.
Samael ended up being fallen a couple of times too - for having sex with Lilith, and for generally mouthing off to Adonai.
Samael is probably the basis for the Christian concept of the devil - or one of several angels, most of whom held the title of Ha-Satan at one point or another. The other basis for the Christian devil is the Horned God of Pagan mysticism, as well as several other gods in the region that Christians wanted to paint as evil to get more followers.
And now for my citations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan#Hebrew_Bible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael#In_Judaism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer#Use_of_the_word_.22lucifer.22_in_the_Bible
^^;; I warned you guys I'd been studying the Kabbalah. And I can't help but share random cool information when prompted. ^^
Limbo, actually.Misho- said:
Which was invented by the Catholics to explain how all their favorite Greek Philosophers could get into heaven after the fact. The early Catholics loved Aristotle's writings. They incorporated a lot of his ideas into the church. They couldn't very well condemn him to hell.
However, again, you're getting your info from Dante, who was a middle ages fiction writer. Dante was a poet, not a priest. Also, he was writing the literary equivalent of South Park the Movie. Nothing wrong with that - South Park the Movie is a fun movie, and Dante's Divine Comedy is a great work of fiction, but that is all it is - fiction. He used the barest understanding of Christian mythology when writing it. And why should he - he was writing a story, not a holy book.
People should really stop treating Dante's Divine Comedy as if it was a religious text. It most certainly is not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante_Alighieri
Well, it depends. I'm a strong atheist, but I'd consider myself a good person.
But I'd rather go to hell, from what I've seen in the bible, God doesn't sound like a particularly nice guy. If he exists. Which I do not believe is true. Hence me being atheist.
But I'd rather go to hell, from what I've seen in the bible, God doesn't sound like a particularly nice guy. If he exists. Which I do not believe is true. Hence me being atheist.
I have a pretty "unique" (As far as I can tell) view on heaven and hell.
I think Heaven is a pretty awesome place for all the goody two shoes church going folk
while Hell is just a pretty awesome place for all us normal folk.
SO Hell would drive all the heavenites crazy but for all us who like drinking and gambling and whoring it's like an eternal Vegas.
I think Heaven is a pretty awesome place for all the goody two shoes church going folk
while Hell is just a pretty awesome place for all us normal folk.
SO Hell would drive all the heavenites crazy but for all us who like drinking and gambling and whoring it's like an eternal Vegas.
As mark twain once said ''go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company''
so I guess I will be going to hell
so I guess I will be going to hell
Lol I love your Summon Wall of Text lvl 9Princess Rose said:
Yeah, I know Dante is more than a glorified fan fiction writer and not an "actual" work recording proper information
I'm not getting my info from anywhere but from what I've read before. But since most works could be considered works of fictions (Including the Bible and what not) I take no offense. I actually like the info there since I always like to learn and my knowledge of this is more than rusty. Still it doesn't invalidate my point. If people grew with Dante's fictitional vision of Heaven and/or Hell, maybe that's what awaits them at the end. Same for Buddhists and Muslims. Or any other religion like dead ones, like the Greeks or Celtics/ Nordic beliefs...Maybe Our visions of what we are afraid of, our guilts and our faults is what is awaiting us in the end from being a terrible person. Maybe not.
Also, don't assume that because someone quotes and or refers to a piece of literature, it means that That person takes the source seriously/ for granted/ part of the "canon" etc... I've met many people who've read the Bible, that doesn't mean I inmediately assume they are that they believe what they've read. Most don't. So please in the future you can avoid things like:
"However, again, you're getting your info from Dante, who was a middle ages fiction writer. Dante was a poet, not a priest. Also, he was writing the literary equivalent of South Park the Movie. Nothing wrong with that - South Park the Movie is a fun movie, and Dante's Divine Comedy is a great work of fiction, but that is all it is - fiction. He used the barest understanding of Christian mythology when writing it. And why should he - he was writing a story, not a holy book.
People should really stop treating Dante's Divine Comedy as if it was a religious text. It most certainly is not."
I mean, you assumed I didn't know that either Dante was a poet, that the Divine Comedy was not canonical or that it is a work of fiction. And assuming is always bad. Maybe if you re-read my original post you will see I only use it a source of a possible vision of Hell according to one man (my point being that Hell could actually end up being something adjusted to YOUR personal beliefs or vision). But anyhow, I hope you understand the difference there and I look forward to your Epic Wall of Text Reply.
EDIT: Also thanks for the correction on the origins of the multiple names for the devil. I remember that most of the demons in the Judeo-Christian belief came from Babylonian lore (in order to discredit old gods as "false gods and or demons) but I didn't know the origins or said names for the devil.
Interesting. So you're suggesting that a persons expectations form the nature of the afterlife they receive.Misho- said:Lol I love your Summon Wall of Text lvl 9
Yeah, I know Dante is more than a glorified fan fiction writer and not an "actual" work recording proper information
That would almost make the afterlife non-denominational. ^^
Ahem.Misho- said:
There are plenty of Pagans in the world (myself included) who would find your comment about the Greek, Celtic, and Norse religions being dead rather offensive.
All three (as well as the Egyptian) have rather healthy followings in the Pagan community.
Well, to be honest, that comment wasn't entirely directed at you. I was sort of hoping to catch the attention of anyone who read it.Misho- said:
A lot of people don't know that it was a random poet who created the "modern" conception of heaven and hell for the entire Christian community. Or they assume that Dante had some facts behind what he wrote. So I do apologize if I seemed to imply anything untoward - but your (and Madara XIII) were serving as a platform for me to get that said. ^^
Yup.Misho- said:
Neat, huh?
Honestly, before I started doing research for my latest book, I had no idea about most of this stuff. I'm a pagan - Jewish and Christian mythology wasn't something that interested me - until I decided to write my own work of fiction based on it. ^^
Personal belief? God is perfect, and because Hell's existence would prove otherwise, Hell is a fallacy. It is impossible for it to exist.
According to Christian beliefs? I am Jewish, which means that I don't accept Christ nor have I been baptized. I am going to hell.
According to Christian beliefs? I am Jewish, which means that I don't accept Christ nor have I been baptized. I am going to hell.
Princess Rose said:I personally knew there a few followers of obscure (in a broad sense) religions from the past but it shames me to admit I didn't know there was a large following... So I'm sorry about that. :SMisho- said:
Other than that it was a pretty polite and nice reply
I am assuming you're talking about the Christian Hell/Heaven
I'd probably go to Hell. I don't want to, but because I have the occasional fap and I don't follow Christianity (because I don't know which religion is 'right', if any of them are) and because I swear and I'm lazy.
I try to be a good person, I really do, but I'd probably still get sent to Hell. Maybe Hell isn't that bad, because everyone else seems to be having a good time down there.
I'd probably go to Hell. I don't want to, but because I have the occasional fap and I don't follow Christianity (because I don't know which religion is 'right', if any of them are) and because I swear and I'm lazy.
I try to be a good person, I really do, but I'd probably still get sent to Hell. Maybe Hell isn't that bad, because everyone else seems to be having a good time down there.
If I were to die right now, I'm going to purgatory. I've lied too much, really. Even though I haven't done anything "bad" (drugs, fights, so on) and haven't even had sex, I'd say that I'm still too manipulative to go straight to heaven. But hey, I'm only 17. I've got plenty of time to secure a spot in hell.
I don't really align myself to any organized religion- hell just seems like one of the many ways to control the masses. If someone's telling me how to worship and live "or else", I get irked. But who knows? And hey, I have been baptized, so maybe that'd toss some points my way.
I don't really align myself to any organized religion- hell just seems like one of the many ways to control the masses. If someone's telling me how to worship and live "or else", I get irked. But who knows? And hey, I have been baptized, so maybe that'd toss some points my way.
