Poll: So, Is the new MMORPG Star Wars: The old Republic wroth playing?

[Caverat]

I enjoy TOR. That is saying something, the only other MMO I enjoyed playing as much was Ultima Online on a free to play shard, and that was due to the friends I was playing with.

Everquest: Toyed with it for awhile, travelling around and taking screenshots of cool areas like a tourist was more fun than the actual game.

WoW: Same thing, made it to a higher level before losing all interest in the game and just wanting to muck about taking pictures.

Tor: Have 3 chars, highest is only 19 at the moment. Not because I stopped having fun with one or anything, just been playing on different servers with different friends. Thoroughly enjoying it. As good as a KOTOR 3 would have been? No, but close. By far, best MMO out there.

If you have liked other mmo's, you should like TOR(Seriously, if you like others but not this one you are probably just disliking it for the sake of not being one of the many, gg hipstering it up, power to ya in hating all AAA titles just because they had budgets and weren't obscure Japanese imports)

If you don't like MMOs, don't expect too much, but you'll probably get more enjoyment out of it than any other, as the questing is remarkably well done, and there are stories that are remotely engaging.

Nothing much to insult if that's what you got from my post. Go pick a fight with someone else, I'm not wasting my time with you.

Alright everyone, back the fuck up, looks like we got ourselves a bad ass here.

 

[ReinWeisserRitter]

BioWare is continuing to make the products that got them to where they are. They got popular doing exactly what they did with this and it would be bad business to throw away something that has earned you a favorable reputation in the games industry.

I'm not saying you're wrong, it's completely opinionated. But what you consider to be not working, loads of other people feel work just fine.

As I stated, I'm already quite aware of it; I accused Bioware of resting on their laurels because of it, as a matter of fact.

As far as it being "World of Warcraft as presented by BioWare", I think people seem to forget that MMO's existed before WoW. WoW was NOT an original concept. The gameplay was not original, the raids were not original, the game was not an original game. It just took various things from the existing MMO pool, improved upon a few of them, set them in an enticing universe, and cashed in on a huge existing fanbase.

Every MMO since WoW's release that hasn't tried some horrible new idea (Darkfall, for example) has been called a WoW clone. They're not WoW clones, they're MMO's that happen to share a lot of the generic MMO qualities that WoW does. The same goes here.

Not really relevant.

Whether World of Warcraft (which ripped off Everquest, by the way) is original or not has nothing to do with my stance; the point of this game is to get a piece of World of Warcraft's pie, not a piece of whatever it's emulating. The gameplay (such as it is) is, with very few exceptions, exactly the same as World of Warcraft's. No one at Bioware said "Man, World of Warcraft is totally unoriginal!", they said "World of Warcraft is popular; we should aim to appeal to its customer base".

By the way, your implication that anything that doesn't try to emulate World of Warcraft comes up with horrible results is... unfortunate. City of Heroes didn't and turned out to be great fun. Great fun I got sick of eventually, sure, but the first time you kick a thug off a building (or punch him over one) is always a scream. It shares few similarities with World of Warcraft, by the way, and calling it a clone of it would be an uninformed decision.

Of course, City of Heroes came out first, so the World of Warcraft plague of unoriginality that came up in the wake of its popularity hadn't caught yet, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[isometry]

I'm a fan of KoTOR and Bioware, but the graphics and gameplay of TOR are too heavily out of date. I felt the same way about WoW when it launched in 2004, the game was already stale back then (having played EQ and Diablo 2 years before), so for me TOR is a minimally improved copy of a stale 2004 game.

The graphic style of KoTOR 1, the combat system, the leveling, all were replaced with WoW/WoW/WoW. It's really the end for me and Bioware, I no longer hold them in high regard, in the past they innovated a good formula for fully voiced RPGs, but at this point they are worthless copycats riding that past formula.

ok i am tired of this crap about how it looks.....Its a mmo its not suposed to be the best looking game on the market its suposed to be a FUN game which it is. as for this "its a WOW clone" crap no its not a wow clone its an MMO only so many ways you can make one WoW was not the first just was the first with a large fan base. so please take a few second to think before you ***** about something (which is your right BTW im not saying it isnt) but please do so research before you post.

Graphics: Most MMOs that launched in the last 2-3 years look better the TOR. Even MMOs that get bad reviews and quickly switch to F2P have better graphics than TOR (APB, Star Trek Online, DCUO).

This is for two simple reasons. First, Bioware never made an MMO before, so they had to use a third party engine that another developer made for them. Second, the game has been in development for so long that the engine is very out of date at this point.

A whole separate issue from the out of date engine, is the childish cartoon art style. There is no technological reason why the graphics have to look that way. They could have made it look like a cross between KoTOR 1 and Mass Effect, but instead they had to copy WoW's art style.

As for your point that "WoW was not the first", you failed to read my post. I know WoW was not the first, in the post you quoted I said I was already tired of WoW when it released in 2004 because it felt like a rehash of EQ and Diablo 2. As for your point that there are "only so many ways to make an MMO", that's just a lack of experience and a lack of creativity. There are many other types of MMOs, and especially the games releasing in the last 2-3 years do a lot of innovative things that TOR doesn't to make gameplay and character customization less stale.

To summarize, Bioware could have based the graphics and gameplay of TOR on KoTOR, but instead they based it on WoW.

 

[ecoho]

I'm a fan of KoTOR and Bioware, but the graphics and gameplay of TOR are too heavily out of date. I felt the same way about WoW when it launched in 2004, the game was already stale back then (having played EQ and Diablo 2 years before), so for me TOR is a minimally improved copy of a stale 2004 game.

The graphic style of KoTOR 1, the combat system, the leveling, all were replaced with WoW/WoW/WoW. It's really the end for me and Bioware, I no longer hold them in high regard, in the past they innovated a good formula for fully voiced RPGs, but at this point they are worthless copycats riding that past formula.

ok i am tired of this crap about how it looks.....Its a mmo its not suposed to be the best looking game on the market its suposed to be a FUN game which it is. as for this "its a WOW clone" crap no its not a wow clone its an MMO only so many ways you can make one WoW was not the first just was the first with a large fan base. so please take a few second to think before you ***** about something (which is your right BTW im not saying it isnt) but please do so research before you post.

Graphics: Most MMOs that launched in the last 2-3 years look better the TOR. Even MMOs that get bad reviews and quickly switch to F2P have better graphics than TOR (APB, Star Trek Online, DCUO).

This is for two simple reasons. First, Bioware never made an MMO before, so they had to use a third party engine that another developer made for them. Second, the game has been in development for so long that the engine is very out of date at this point.

A whole separate issue from the out of date engine, is the childish cartoon art style. There is no technological reason why the graphics have to look that way. They could have made it look like a cross between KoTOR 1 and Mass Effect, but instead they had to copy WoW's art style.

As for your point that "WoW was not the first", you failed to read my post. I know WoW was not the first, in the post you quoted I said I was already tired of WoW when it released in 2004 because it felt like a rehash of EQ and Diablo 2. As for your point that there are "only so many ways to make an MMO", that's just a lack of experience and a lack of creativity. There are many other types of MMOs, and especially the games releasing in the last 2-3 years do a lot of innovative things that TOR doesn't to make gameplay and character customization less stale.

To summarize, Bioware could have based the graphics and gameplay of TOR on KoTOR, but instead they based it on WoW.

did you ever think the reason they used that art style was because it was the easiest to optimize for all PCs? ok so they could have done kotor 1 graphics if they really want to but hey im not gonna nip pick a year or so difference in grphics with such a great story and mmo in general. but to each his own.

 

[Lunar Templar]

You sir went in thinking the game was KOTOR 3 instead of an MMO and so you paid for your misstake have fun, stop playing ,and please say your peace and leave TY

Nope, I went in hoping for something new to freshen up the very stale formula WoW has refined and have paid for my mistake. There is nothing new or even remotely interesting in this game. Feel free to get suckered in by the "story" and "choice" that was hyped. The only thing it actually brings to the formula is that the quest text doesn't scroll on the screen, it's voiced out. If that's innovation enough for you, great. The OP asked for opinions, that's what I'm giving.

And before making such dismissive remarks you might want to actually read my post. At no time do I compare it to KOTOR, but constantly compare it to other MMOs. Exactly how does that translate in me expecting anything but an MMO?

your mistake was expecting 'new and refreshing' from a studio in the USA, case you hadn't noticed, they're pretty big on ripping each other off whole sale, you want MMO innovation, look to Korea, that's where you'll find it.

also to every one else on the 'voice acted quests' yeah, Dragons Nest did that to, like MONTHS ago, nothing new there ether. it's also got cut scenes for the main story line that are also voiced.

 

[StrixMaxima]

I am truly unimpressed. I got into the CB thingy, and after several hours, I did not want to play, anymore.

Granted, some of that stems from the fact that I loathe what happened to the IP after the original trilogy. So, I find it quite difficult to CARE about this universe which happens to be at war. The Sith side is specially terrible in this aspect. No amount of voice acting will make this lame storyline interesting.

Prices are a bit on the steep side, but I paid for a Collectors Edition of Skyrim. So, money is not exactly a deal-breaker, if I am interested enough.

I will keep on playing LotRO, which despite all its flaws, delivers a world I can care and appreciate. It still remains, for me, the best PVE in any MMO.

 

[Googenstien]

SWG was a much better MMO... SWTOR is basically KOTOR3 with an online chat

 

[Korten12]

You sir went in thinking the game was KOTOR 3 instead of an MMO and so you paid for your misstake have fun, stop playing ,and please say your peace and leave TY

Nope, I went in hoping for something new to freshen up the very stale formula WoW has refined and have paid for my mistake. There is nothing new or even remotely interesting in this game. Feel free to get suckered in by the "story" and "choice" that was hyped. The only thing it actually brings to the formula is that the quest text doesn't scroll on the screen, it's voiced out. If that's innovation enough for you, great. The OP asked for opinions, that's what I'm giving.

And before making such dismissive remarks you might want to actually read my post. At no time do I compare it to KOTOR, but constantly compare it to other MMOs. Exactly how does that translate in me expecting anything but an MMO?

your mistake was expecting 'new and refreshing' from a studio in the USA, case you hadn't noticed, they're pretty big on ripping each other off whole sale, you want MMO innovation, look to Korea, that's where you'll find it.

also to every one else on the 'voice acted quests' yeah, Dragons Nest did that to, like MONTHS ago, nothing new there ether. it's also got cut scenes for the main story line that are also voiced.

I am not going to do a whole arguement thing but ArenaNet is doing innovative things, refreshing and new idea's and it's a USA studio.

 

[babinro]

From an RPG gamer perspective, I'd highly recommend the Old Republic.

It's excellent, although a little too reliant on groups for the more interesting stories. I don't expect the game to have any real appeal after the main story is complete beyond going through a new story again with one of the 7 other options.

My main gripe with the game is the pacing. The game does feel like a grind...but I've played MMO's where the grind is FAR more apparent.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

As a major fan of the Star Wars Expanded Universe, I find the storyline to this game to be one of the worst and most asinine contributions to the universe since Legacy of the Force.

"Escalation" would be the word I use to describe this kind of crap. Taking a concept that has already been done in the universe before, and then ramping it up to make it seem more important. Teh Sith Empurer is teh moast powrful persun in teh Galexi!

They just keep coming up with bullshit to try and make things seem more epic than they actually are.

Any longtime reader of the EU knows about Kevin J. Anderson's fetish with superweapons and super powered versions of stuff. He made weapons that made the Death Stars look like shit, and people hated it for how over the top it got. That is how this game feels.

The Sith are the Galactic Empire with more force users. The art style is so bloody derivative that it makes my head hurt. All smugglers look like Han Solo or Lando Calrissian. All Sith are mechanical Darth Vaders or Darth Mauls. All soldiers are fucking clone troopers. There is no visual flair. The first two KOTOR games managed to make a unique art style that both seemed new and yet related to Star Wars. This doesn't feel like it is related to the films. It looks exactly like the film, except with shittier animations.

I'm not even going to talk about gameplay, since it is a stagnant as WOW is. But the story standpoint is just sheer tripe.

 

[Micalas]

I've been playing since before the Dec. 20th launch and I am not very impressed. I don't understand how everyone says the story is so good. I am playing the Sith Inquisitor story and it is insanely boring.
I play on a PvE server, but it has some options for PVP. Those options aren't very good. One of the PvP games you can play is pretty much American Football. You get a ball and have to make it to the other teams base with it.
Other than that it is EXACTLY like other MMOs. Go kill x of y. Go fetch me a data pad.

One of the things that drives me crazy is that the Empire can't do ANYTHING for itself. Every quest starts with, "It's a good thing you came along. We need your help. We can't do this." It doesn't feel like a powerful empire that can rule the galaxy.

I like the Sith Inquisitor story

Also, I think it's rather cannonical that the Empire can't do shit. How else would the original trilogy have made sense? To quote Yahtzee, "See, this is the kind of thinking that makes the Empire the formidable, universe-spanning power that could be brought down by college kids and their pet gophers"

 

[Saltyk]

I'd take any of the complaints here with a grain of salt. These people also complain about great games.

I'd take anyone talking it up like the second coming of Jesus with a grain of salt, too.

Personally, I really enjoy it. The quests are actually fun. And despite the naysayers, I find that the dialog actually does help me care about them more. Also, I must be missing all the "Kill X of Y quests" somehow. The vast majority of such quests are simply bonuses to other quests. And those are generally easy to complete during the course of the quest. I find plenty of quests with actual stories behind them.

Better yet, I can affect the outcome of said quests. Do you kill the cheating wife of the Intelligence officer who slept with a Republic Spy or let her go? Do you delete the plans to new terrifying turrets or give them to the Empire. Do you destroy the men placed in droid bodies or send them to fight for the empire. Do you dare flirt with a Dark Lord of the Sith? These are all examples of side quests for Imperial players.

 

[Windcaler]

You're rather vague in a lot of your opinions and dismissive of anyones counter opinion as just being hype. So I have to wonder if you even play the game, it just smacks of uninformed trolling or hate. On the off chance that its not, lets talk about this definition of grinding and how I think you are incorrect about TOR

By your logic, all games, not just MMO's are the "kill X quests" or "do X thing" grinding. The first marine core level of call of duty 4 for example, you kill X number of soldiers till you get to the TV station. Broken down to its bear bones, you kill x people and you get to the objective to finish. Just how if you go through say the imperial agent storyline and later make a new agent it will never change beyond differing morale/social choices. The CoD multiplayer is even more grindy by your definition.

I think the problem is with your definition of grind. For me, a grind is a repetitous action a player must complete in order for rewards that is not fun. Those last three words are the most important of all. They are important because they distinguish a real grind from something individuals enjoy in the game. For example getting all the PVP gear might be a grind to you but if I enjoy PVP its not a grind for me.

Since you mention that there is nothing new in this game. Could you point out to me which MMORPGs have a compelling story that was fully voice acted and allowed for the player to make choices depending on their characters morale or social code? Could you also point out to me which MMORPG allowed for crafting by companion characters, freeing up the player to do other things? I can keep going but lets keep the list small for right now, I dont want to overload you

You also mention that theres nothing interesting in the game. Im sure this is an exaggeration but think about this. You would have had to experience everything the game has to offer from the first quests all the way up to the eternity vault. I really just cant see how anyone can make that claim in a star wars game when you have aliens with different langauges all around you, hallmark locations from the movies, and just all around good story. I mean if the heavy espionage and political intrigue story of the Imperial agent isnt interesting then I have to ask what is interesting for you?

 

[Anti Nudist Cupcake]

It's as grind-tastic as you could expect, boring, and frankly when compared to WoW... lacking polish. And unless you like that sort of thing, I can't recommend it

Bullshit.

This is what grinding is: "Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or boring tasks not pertaining to the story line of the game"

Swtor has a fully voiced and thought-out story line to play through with plot twists and character development. If you grinded AT ALL then you played it wrong.

And how can you even compare this game to wow? Let alone in terms of POLISH? Wow is EXTREMELY out of date. Wow doesn't have animations or graphics or story-telling that even comes CLOSE to swtor.

Are you sure you weren't playing star wars galaxies?

Yeah, how about you play the game and get back to me.

What exactly do you think you do after you engage in FULLY VOICED NARATION dialogues with npcs? Do you actually think quests are anything else than "go kill x number of y to collect z"? that's right, you go off grinding for the next hour or two. and it's a hell of a lot worse than WoW. So far I've played quite a few MMORPGs and the Coruscant section of TOR was by far the worst experience I've had in an MMO.

As for the actual story, I stopped giving a shit after the first 10 quests, it's just fucking boring and uninteresting.

Oh, you want to talk polish and outdated mechanics, ok, let's do that. Play a Jedi Knight. Then go play a Warrior in WoW and try to tell me there are differences with a straight face. Same fucking mechanics, even most of the abilities are nearly identical. Every secondary mechanic like the interface, keybindings, travel system is basically copy-pasted from WoW.

Graphics? you are really bringing graphics into it? well, tech-wise it's newer, yes. The actual visual design? It's crap. Dull, uninteresting, there is nothing that strike you as "Star Wars". WoW at least has a distinctive visual style that, despite it's extreme age still looks decent.

Play the game, then try to bring some arguments, don't just spit out hype at me.

Oh thanks, I HAVE played the game. As a jedi guardian.
So you say SWTOR has more grind than wow do you? Alright, let met just name a few quests I remember from swtor from level 1-14ish.

[minor spoiler alert]

I've had to decide whether I should blow up a force of fleshraiders' weapons or hand them to the villagers.
I've had to do go after a sith apprentice to save a jedi master.
Iv'e had to save captive jedi padawans from captivity in fleshraider jail cells by freeing them.
Iv'e had to choose between reporting the romance between two jedi knights to the masters or to keep it a secret for a reward.
Iv'e had to use scanners to scan vents to determine if the core of coruscant was going unstable and then decide whether I should lie about the information or not.
Iv'e had to rescue a little girl's brother from captivity in a merc base.
Iv'e had to investigate the imprisonment of a boy for a journalist to prove the people were unjust in killing him, only to find that he WAS a traitor whereupon I had to decide if I was going to tell the truth or lie to the journalist.
Iv'e had to show a jedi padawan in training how to use the force to lift objects, only for his master to catch him cheating and expelling him from the order and commending me for my abilities.
I've had to introduce a fleshraider to the jedi council for training in order to save a hostage.
I've had to search for the carcass of a man's father for a ring and decide whether he should be avenged or if I shouldn't help someone else with their revenge.
Iv'e had to remove bombs from shipping containers to stop them from blowing up in people's faces.
And I had to fight through some guards after I was betrayed by a twi'lek in order to get to a jedi master who as I said I had to save from his evil apprentice.

All this is just SOME of the stuff from from level 1 to 14. Now compare wow's human warrior quests to that (closest wow has to a human jedi knight) and you'll see which game is the REAL grind.

Kill those wolves for their fur and bring it back, kill those murlocs and bring their fins, kill those guys there and bring their ribbons, kill those spiders and bring their venom BUT AS AN ADDED BONUS TO MAKE THE QUEST INTERESTING please bring their fangs as well.

And this goes on FOREVER in the game all the way to level 49 where I stopped playing.

....but for some reason you argue swtor has worse grind. I don't see it buddy.

And are you REALLY bringing aesthetics into this? That depends entirely on personal taste which makes your argument useless. Wow to me was extremely dull and boring, I find swtor way more interesting and the use of colors is much better but WHY ARE WE ARGUING THIS WHEN IT DEPENDS ON PERSONAL TASTE? Also, both wow and Swtor look cartoonish so neither look any more "decent" than the other because they're both the same. As for you getting bored with the story, AT LEAST THE GAME HAS A STORY IN THE FIRST PLACE.

And you say tor lacks polish, I bring up that it does not. Your counter argument? "it's just like wow".

... So how's it worse? And you say everything about the game is copy pasted from wow, wow has copy pasted the very same things you mention from older less-successful mmos too you know. Why? BECUASE IT'S AN MMO AND THAT'S HOW THEY LOOK AND WORK.

Swtor is much better designed, but if you didn't like it then you didn't like it, but making shit up like saying it is completely full of grind (there is only a little bit of grind in every 1 out of 4 quests, if you consider regular combat and looting to even be grinding at all as this game has no more grind than kotor) is just nonsense.

 

[Micalas]

Do you dare flirt with a Dark Lord of the Sith? These are all examples of side quests for Imperial players.

Of course

Pro-tip: If you sleep with the Rylee Dray on Nar Shadaa you get 150 dark side points for some reason.

 

[VladG]

It's as grind-tastic as you could expect, boring, and frankly when compared to WoW... lacking polish. And unless you like that sort of thing, I can't recommend it

Bullshit.

This is what grinding is: "Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or boring tasks not pertaining to the story line of the game"

Swtor has a fully voiced and thought-out story line to play through with plot twists and character development. If you grinded AT ALL then you played it wrong.

And how can you even compare this game to wow? Let alone in terms of POLISH? Wow is EXTREMELY out of date. Wow doesn't have animations or graphics or story-telling that even comes CLOSE to swtor.

Are you sure you weren't playing star wars galaxies?

Yeah, how about you play the game and get back to me.

What exactly do you think you do after you engage in FULLY VOICED NARATION dialogues with npcs? Do you actually think quests are anything else than "go kill x number of y to collect z"? that's right, you go off grinding for the next hour or two. and it's a hell of a lot worse than WoW. So far I've played quite a few MMORPGs and the Coruscant section of TOR was by far the worst experience I've had in an MMO.

As for the actual story, I stopped giving a shit after the first 10 quests, it's just fucking boring and uninteresting.

Oh, you want to talk polish and outdated mechanics, ok, let's do that. Play a Jedi Knight. Then go play a Warrior in WoW and try to tell me there are differences with a straight face. Same fucking mechanics, even most of the abilities are nearly identical. Every secondary mechanic like the interface, keybindings, travel system is basically copy-pasted from WoW.

Graphics? you are really bringing graphics into it? well, tech-wise it's newer, yes. The actual visual design? It's crap. Dull, uninteresting, there is nothing that strike you as "Star Wars". WoW at least has a distinctive visual style that, despite it's extreme age still looks decent.

Play the game, then try to bring some arguments, don't just spit out hype at me.

Oh thanks, I HAVE played the game. As a jedi guardian.
So you say SWTOR has more grind than wow do you? Alright, let met just name a few quests I remember from swtor from level 1-14ish.

[minor spoiler alert]

I've had to decide whether I should blow up a force of fleshraiders' weapons or hand them to the villagers.
I've had to do go after a sith apprentice to save a jedi master.
Iv'e had to save captive jedi padawans from captivity in fleshraider jail cells by freeing them.
Iv'e had to choose between reporting the romance between two jedi knights to the masters or to keep it a secret for a reward.
Iv'e had to use scanners to scan vents to determine if the core of coruscant was going unstable and then decide whether I should lie about the information or not.
Iv'e had to rescue a little girl's brother from captivity in a merc base.
Iv'e had to investigate the imprisonment of a boy for a journalist to prove the people were unjust in killing him, only to find that he WAS a traitor whereupon I had to decide if I was going to tell the truth or lie to the journalist.
Iv'e had to show a jedi padawan in training how to use the force to lift objects, only for his master to catch him cheating and expelling him from the order and commending me for my abilities.
I've had to introduce a fleshraider to the jedi council for training in order to save a hostage.
I've had to search for the carcass of a man's father for a ring and decide whether he should be avenged or if I shouldn't help someone else with their revenge.
Iv'e had to remove bombs from shipping containers to stop them from blowing up in people's faces.
And I had to fight through some guards after I was betrayed by a twi'lek in order to get to a jedi master who as I said I had to save from his evil apprentice.

All this is just SOME of the stuff from from level 1 to 14. Now compare wow's human warrior quests to that (closest wow has to a human jedi knight) and you'll see which game is the REAL grind.

Kill those wolves for their fur and bring it back, kill those murlocs and bring their fins, kill those guys there and bring their ribbons, kill those spiders and bring their venom BUT AS AN ADDED BONUS TO MAKE THE QUEST INTERESTING please bring their fangs as well.

And this goes on FOREVER in the game all the way to level 49 where I stopped playing.

....but for some reason you argue swtor has worse grind. I don't see it buddy.

And are you REALLY bringing aesthetics into this? That depends entirely on personal taste which makes your argument useless. Wow to me was extremely dull and boring, I find swtor way more interesting and the use of colors is much better but WHY ARE WE ARGUING THIS WHEN IT DEPENDS ON PERSONAL TASTE? Also, both wow and Swtor look cartoonish so neither look any more "decent" than the other because they're both the same. As for you getting bored with the story, AT LEAST THE GAME HAS A STORY IN THE FIRST PLACE.

And you say tor lacks polish, I bring up that it does not. Your counter argument? "it's just like wow".

... So how's it worse? And you say everything about the game is copy pasted from wow, wow has copy pasted the very same things you mention from older less-successful mmos too you know. Why? BECUASE IT'S AN MMO AND THAT'S HOW THEY LOOK AND WORK.

Swtor is much better designed, but if you didn't like it then you didn't like it, but making shit up like saying it is completely full of grind (there is only a little bit of grind in every 1 out of 4 quests, if you consider regular combat and looting to even be grinding at all as this game has no more grind than kotor) is just nonsense.

"I've had to decide whether I should blow up a force of fleshraiders' weapons or hand them to the villagers." - Isn't that the one where you ... and I might be remembering this wrong, go around through an enemy infested area in circles waiting for x number of usable items, in this case "weapon caches" to spawn so you can right click them? Why yes, yes it is

"Iv'e had to save captive jedi padawans from captivity in fleshraider jail cells by freeing them. " Isn't that the one where you ... and I might be remembering this wrong, go around through an enemy infested area in circles waiting for x number of usable items, in this case "captive padawan" to spawn so you can right click them? Why yes, yes it is

"Iv'e had to use scanners to scan vents to determine if the core of coruscant was going unstable and then decide whether I should lie about the information or not." Isn't that the one where you ... and I might be remembering this wrong, go around through an enemy infested area in circles waiting for x number of usable items, in this case "vents" to spawn so you can right click them? Why yes, yes it is

"Iv'e had to remove bombs from shipping containers to stop them from blowing up in people's faces." Isn't that the one where you ... and I might be remembering this wrong, go around through an enemy infested area in circles waiting for x number of usable items, in this case "hidden bombs" to spawn so you can right click them? Why yes, yes it is

"I've had to do go after a sith apprentice to save a jedi master." Isn't that the one where you run through an enemy infested zone to right click on an npc at the end? Why yes, yes it is

"Iv'e had to rescue a little girl's brother from captivity in a merc base." Isn't that the one where you run through an enemy infested zone to right click on an npc at the end? Why yes, yes it is

MY GOD, you're right! There no grind at all!

 

[Anti Nudist Cupcake]

It's as grind-tastic as you could expect, boring, and frankly when compared to WoW... lacking polish. And unless you like that sort of thing, I can't recommend it

Bullshit.

This is what grinding is: "Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or boring tasks not pertaining to the story line of the game"

Swtor has a fully voiced and thought-out story line to play through with plot twists and character development. If you grinded AT ALL then you played it wrong.

And how can you even compare this game to wow? Let alone in terms of POLISH? Wow is EXTREMELY out of date. Wow doesn't have animations or graphics or story-telling that even comes CLOSE to swtor.

Are you sure you weren't playing star wars galaxies?

Yeah, how about you play the game and get back to me.

What exactly do you think you do after you engage in FULLY VOICED NARATION dialogues with npcs? Do you actually think quests are anything else than "go kill x number of y to collect z"? that's right, you go off grinding for the next hour or two. and it's a hell of a lot worse than WoW. So far I've played quite a few MMORPGs and the Coruscant section of TOR was by far the worst experience I've had in an MMO.

As for the actual story, I stopped giving a shit after the first 10 quests, it's just fucking boring and uninteresting.

Oh, you want to talk polish and outdated mechanics, ok, let's do that. Play a Jedi Knight. Then go play a Warrior in WoW and try to tell me there are differences with a straight face. Same fucking mechanics, even most of the abilities are nearly identical. Every secondary mechanic like the interface, keybindings, travel system is basically copy-pasted from WoW.

Graphics? you are really bringing graphics into it? well, tech-wise it's newer, yes. The actual visual design? It's crap. Dull, uninteresting, there is nothing that strike you as "Star Wars". WoW at least has a distinctive visual style that, despite it's extreme age still looks decent.

Play the game, then try to bring some arguments, don't just spit out hype at me.

Oh thanks, I HAVE played the game. As a jedi guardian.
So you say SWTOR has more grind than wow do you? Alright, let met just name a few quests I remember from swtor from level 1-14ish.

[minor spoiler alert]

I've had to decide whether I should blow up a force of fleshraiders' weapons or hand them to the villagers.
I've had to do go after a sith apprentice to save a jedi master.
Iv'e had to save captive jedi padawans from captivity in fleshraider jail cells by freeing them.
Iv'e had to choose between reporting the romance between two jedi knights to the masters or to keep it a secret for a reward.
Iv'e had to use scanners to scan vents to determine if the core of coruscant was going unstable and then decide whether I should lie about the information or not.
Iv'e had to rescue a little girl's brother from captivity in a merc base.
Iv'e had to investigate the imprisonment of a boy for a journalist to prove the people were unjust in killing him, only to find that he WAS a traitor whereupon I had to decide if I was going to tell the truth or lie to the journalist.
Iv'e had to show a jedi padawan in training how to use the force to lift objects, only for his master to catch him cheating and expelling him from the order and commending me for my abilities.
I've had to introduce a fleshraider to the jedi council for training in order to save a hostage.
I've had to search for the carcass of a man's father for a ring and decide whether he should be avenged or if I shouldn't help someone else with their revenge.
Iv'e had to remove bombs from shipping containers to stop them from blowing up in people's faces.
And I had to fight through some guards after I was betrayed by a twi'lek in order to get to a jedi master who as I said I had to save from his evil apprentice.

All this is just SOME of the stuff from from level 1 to 14. Now compare wow's human warrior quests to that (closest wow has to a human jedi knight) and you'll see which game is the REAL grind.

Kill those wolves for their fur and bring it back, kill those murlocs and bring their fins, kill those guys there and bring their ribbons, kill those spiders and bring their venom BUT AS AN ADDED BONUS TO MAKE THE QUEST INTERESTING please bring their fangs as well.

And this goes on FOREVER in the game all the way to level 49 where I stopped playing.

....but for some reason you argue swtor has worse grind. I don't see it buddy.

And are you REALLY bringing aesthetics into this? That depends entirely on personal taste which makes your argument useless. Wow to me was extremely dull and boring, I find swtor way more interesting and the use of colors is much better but WHY ARE WE ARGUING THIS WHEN IT DEPENDS ON PERSONAL TASTE? Also, both wow and Swtor look cartoonish so neither look any more "decent" than the other because they're both the same. As for you getting bored with the story, AT LEAST THE GAME HAS A STORY IN THE FIRST PLACE.

And you say tor lacks polish, I bring up that it does not. Your counter argument? "it's just like wow".

... So how's it worse? And you say everything about the game is copy pasted from wow, wow has copy pasted the very same things you mention from older less-successful mmos too you know. Why? BECUASE IT'S AN MMO AND THAT'S HOW THEY LOOK AND WORK.

Swtor is much better designed, but if you didn't like it then you didn't like it, but making shit up like saying it is completely full of grind (there is only a little bit of grind in every 1 out of 4 quests, if you consider regular combat and looting to even be grinding at all as this game has no more grind than kotor) is just nonsense.

"I've had to decide whether I should blow up a force of fleshraiders' weapons or hand them to the villagers." - Isn't that the one where you ... and I might be remembering this wrong, go around through an enemy infested area in circles waiting for x number of usable items, in this case "weapon caches" to spawn so you can right click them? Why yes, yes it is

"Iv'e had to save captive jedi padawans from captivity in fleshraider jail cells by freeing them. " Isn't that the one where you ... and I might be remembering this wrong, go around through an enemy infested area in circles waiting for x number of usable items, in this case "captive padawan" to spawn so you can right click them? Why yes, yes it is

"Iv'e had to use scanners to scan vents to determine if the core of coruscant was going unstable and then decide whether I should lie about the information or not." Isn't that the one where you ... and I might be remembering this wrong, go around through an enemy infested area in circles waiting for x number of usable items, in this case "vents" to spawn so you can right click them? Why yes, yes it is

"Iv'e had to remove bombs from shipping containers to stop them from blowing up in people's faces." Isn't that the one where you ... and I might be remembering this wrong, go around through an enemy infested area in circles waiting for x number of usable items, in this case "hidden bombs" to spawn so you can right click them? Why yes, yes it is

"I've had to do go after a sith apprentice to save a jedi master." Isn't that the one where you run through an enemy infested zone to right click on an npc at the end? Why yes, yes it is

"Iv'e had to rescue a little girl's brother from captivity in a merc base." Isn't that the one where you run through an enemy infested zone to right click on an npc at the end? Why yes, yes it is

MY GOD, you're right! There no grind at all!

Your problem with the game can be summed up as:

Having to fight to reach your goal.
Items having a respawn time.

Is this Grinding? No, maybe to you but not to me as I love a good fight. Having to kill groups of monsters as the only way of gaining experience and not breaking up the monotony making it repetitive is grinding. Having enemies in your way to fight as part of the quest in order to ADVANCE further to the next plot point so that you can get experience from completing the quest is not, it is called combat.

Also,You do know that respawning quest items are a necessity for mmorpgs right? Being filled with millions of players who do the same quests as you and all...

More on what grinding is: "The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs like Final Fantasy XI, World of Warcraft, Tibia, or Lineage it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over again to advance their character"
"The most common form of level treadmill seen is the practice of killing monsters for experience points. In this way, the player progresses towards the next level to defeat more powerful monsters."

What you have described does not fit this. You are describing having to wait for a poor respawn timer while enemies are in the area.

And yes, sometimes it turns out that the base of fleshraiders with the important weapon stashes inside is actually GUARDED! AND THEY WON'T JUST LET YOU MESS WITH THEIR STUFF! HOW CAN THIS BE! This applies to your first, second and fourth points. Did you really think their wouldn't be people guarding those things? Of course you would have to fight them and if you arrived right around the time someone else jacked the shit you were supposed to deal with then you'll have to accept that this isn't a fully instanced mmo and deal with it.

To your third point: I don't recall vents respawning, they're a part of the building's structure.

To your last two points: Congratulations, you've summed up 75% of the levels in ever RPG/video game in existence. Fighting enemies in order to advance and in the case of an rpg, click on the quest goal.

I will however admit that SWTOR does have a fatal flaw that you have made clear, it has too many quests involving respawning quest items and the wait time for them is too long.