Poll: Something is going down in Toronto

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The Madman

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Dec 7, 2007
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AC10 said:
They're protesting the security cost of the summit. Ironically, if the government didn't spend so much on security there wouldn't have been any riots/protests.
Except that the riots on prove that the precautions taken were legitimate. If the protesters had wanted to prove it was a waste of money then they'd protest is a legal and peaceful manner. All they're doing now is fueling the machine they're ironically against!

Fortunately however it's only Toronto, so if it ends up going down in a blaze of fire and glory before being transformed into a city-wide prison ala' Escape from New York, most of us wont see it as a huge difference.

What? I'm joking!
 

Jark212

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Jul 17, 2008
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Minor teargas use/rioting. You can't have teargas without rioting, and you cannot have rioting without teargas...
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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The Madman said:
AC10 said:
They're protesting the security cost of the summit. Ironically, if the government didn't spend so much on security there wouldn't have been any riots/protests.
Except that the riots on prove that the precautions taken were legitimate. If the protesters had wanted to prove it was a waste of money then they'd protest is a legal and peaceful manner. All they're doing now is fueling the machine they're ironically against!

Fortunately however it's only Toronto, so if it ends up going down in a blaze of fire and glory before being transformed into a city-wide prison ala' Escape from New York, most of us wont see it as a huge difference.

What? I'm joking!
Yes, except the violent protesters were a group called the Black Bloc and were only 100-200 strong. The total number of peaceful protesters was estimated at around 10,000. Hence why people are claiming the use of provocateurs. I don't personally think it was provocateurs, but the Canadian government used them in the past at the Quebec SPP protests so there is at least cause to be suspicious.

If it wasn't provocateurs, then it's at least a self fulfilling prophecy. Members of the Black Bloc stated they wanted to test the security and show the government they couldn't contain the people like that. If they government didn't they probably wouldn't have been there. Or, you could argue they would just find some other thing to get violent about. It's all speculation. However, just so you realize 1 billion is a lot of money for Canada, we have 40,000 people including infants or school children who aren't exactly making an income to foot the bill. Compounding this with the massive deficit that Harper and the Ontario federal government are running up and it's not looking like they're even trying to be careful with our money.

I'm NOT happy a riot happened, but I'm also NOT happy that so much money was wasted on what is, to me, a complete farce.
 

Eggsnham

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Apr 29, 2009
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Crunchy English said:
Eggsnham said:
Rioting, some tear gas maybe. Perhaps there will be a few deaths.

Unfortunate, but nothing new.
For SOME countries maybe, but Canada has never had that. Violence just doesn't belong here.
Well, welcome to the world of mayhem and confusion!

[small]Also, I hope the problem does get sorted out soon, Canada really is one of the last few places on Earth where shit like this isn't the norm.[/small]
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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Eggsnham said:
Crunchy English said:
Eggsnham said:
Rioting, some tear gas maybe. Perhaps there will be a few deaths.

Unfortunate, but nothing new.
For SOME countries maybe, but Canada has never had that. Violence just doesn't belong here.
Well, welcome to the world of mayhem and confusion!

[small]Also, I hope the problem does get sorted out soon, Canada really is one of the last few places on Earth where shit like this isn't the norm.[/small]
The current rumor is that most of the violent protesters were not even from the Provence. Thousands of people have flown in from all around the world to protest various things from rights in Tibet to gay marriage (remember, this summit represents 20 countries!).

It makes me a bit calmer to hear that locals to Toronto were for the most part behaved.
 

The Madman

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AC10 said:
If it wasn't provocateurs, then it's at least a self fulfilling prophecy. Members of the Black Bloc stated they wanted to test the security and show the government they couldn't contain the people like that. If they government didn't they probably wouldn't have been there. Or, you could argue they would just find some other thing to get violent about.
People will find an excuse to do as they like when they like. Rationalizing it in their own minds to twist reality to their own perverted whims. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind that that group would have caused untold trouble no matter the situation. Had there not been as much spent, then they'd say they were protesting how ineffective the precautions were. Had a bloody boat-load been spent, then they'd protest there having been so much spent on precautions.

It's human nature, you know that!

That said I'd rather money be spent on safety than not. As you point out, there are tens of thousands of other people involved whether they like it or not in the protests, not all are violent, but all have the possibility of being drawn into violence. Plus it is a city, a living breathing place where people live and work we're talking about here. Would you rather them have done nothing and let the riots escalate till there'd been more damage done and the costs of the repairs went into the billions itself? We're already seeing footage of vehicles burning and building fronts being wrecked.

Not to mention the obvious threats of Mob Mentality. All it takes are a few people to spark something worse. Better the Police are given the tools to end it quickly rather than risk things that!

I see nothing wrong with the precautions taken. It's alot, to be sure, but this is the homes, workplaces, and lives of people at stake. No cost is too high!

Of course logically the best course would have been to not host this event in a city at all, but do like they did awhile back with the 28th G8 Summit and just host the thing in the bloody middle of nowhere.
 

enzilewulf

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Jun 19, 2009
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Furburt said:
Ah shit, I hate missing a good riot.
Would you throw another tear gas back at the cops? (or what ever you did its been a while since I read that)
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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The Madman said:
AC10 said:
If it wasn't provocateurs, then it's at least a self fulfilling prophecy. Members of the Black Bloc stated they wanted to test the security and show the government they couldn't contain the people like that. If they government didn't they probably wouldn't have been there. Or, you could argue they would just find some other thing to get violent about.
People will find an excuse to do as they like when they like. Rationalizing it in their own minds to twist reality to their own perverted whims. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind that that group would have caused untold trouble no matter the situation. Had there not been as much spent, then they'd say they were protesting how ineffective the precautions were. Had a bloody boat-load been spent, then they'd protest there having been so much spent on precautions.

It's human nature, you know that!

That said I'd rather money be spent on safety than not. As you point out, there are tens of thousands of other people involved whether they like it or not in the protests, not all are violent, but all have the possibility of being drawn into violence. Plus it is a city, a living breathing place where people live and work we're talking about here. Would you rather them have done nothing and let the riots escalate till there'd been more damage done and the costs of the repairs went into the billions itself? We're already seeing footage of vehicles burning and building fronts being wrecked.

Not to mention the obvious threats of Mob Mentality. All it takes are a few people to spark something worse. Better the Police are given the tools to end it quickly rather than risk things that!

I see nothing wrong with the precautions taken. It's alot, to be sure, but this is the homes, workplaces, and lives of people at stake. No cost is too high!

Of course logically the best course would have been to not host this event in a city at all, but do like they did awhile back with the 28th G8 Summit and just host the thing in the bloody middle of nowhere.
Yeah, the City of Toronto fought with the government about having it in the downtown core, but the government insisted it be there. They never really gave a good reason for why. IMO the best place to put it would have been Toronto island:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&safe=off&q=toronto+island&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Toronto+Island&gl=ca&ei=EawmTNKlHIG78gb2odTDDw&ved=0CCYQ8gEwAA&ll=43.625545,-79.372745&spn=0.024075,0.066047&z=15

I believe the entire Island is commercial and park area. They just built a bad ass new conference center on the Island, and it has some good restaurants (they'd get it catered anyways). Best of all, the Island has it's very own airport, there is no business there to disrupt, except park closures which will not affect many people, and you get the great bonus of a natural water defense. The only way to get to the Island from the mainland is by boat. Just monitor the ports and close off the island you're pretty much safe as can be.

EDIT: My bad, some few hundred people live on the island. You could still easily cordon off the road from the single residential area to the conference center.
 

enzilewulf

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Jun 19, 2009
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Kharloth said:
So far they have clashed with police violently, tear gas has been used and a cop car has been torched.

Looking forward to tomorrow :D
take it you live near there? I can't get anything in America, And this shit interest me!!!
 

Mr.Mattress

Level 2 Lumberjack
Jul 17, 2009
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I am sure Canada will survive. This will most likely cause some anger towards the G20 summit meetings and the Anarchists of Canada, but they will survive. And they will learn.
 

Recycle

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Jun 22, 2010
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I went with some friends during to protest to see what a zombie apocalypse would be like.
Very Realistic
 

Enigmers

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Dec 14, 2008
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I was just there a few hours ago, I didn't see any protesters up close (across the street from a taxi) but there were plenty of broken windows and spray painted messages that all seem to say "we are jealous of the fact that you earn money while we waste our time being pricks" and one advertising the Communist party of Iran. "bomb the banks" and "make the rich pay" were among the messages I remember, as well as a really shittily drawn anarchy symbol.
I was supposed to be at a concert, which I missed because of the violent protesters. I hope those assholes are happy (by which I mean injecting tear gas rectally).
 

cah318ery7

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Aug 8, 2008
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Well as long as Rush is safe and sound it doesn't concern me.

In all seriousness, if anything starts the police know what to do.