Poll: Sooooo... Kill La Kill?

[Daystar Clarion]

It's one of the most entertaining anime series I've seen in a while. I can see why the fan service might put some people off watching and I can't fault them for it, but in my opinion the pros out weigh the cons. It's fast paced, energetic, action packed and funny. Ryuko is a great lead, athletic, confident and skillful even without her Kamui. Anime as a whole needs more Matoi's and less Naru's. I'm not gonna play the cop out "If you turn your brain off" bullshit card either. I can assure you my brain was very much switched on and loving it.

If that means I'm some kind of easily pleased, dirty peasant of the anime community then so be it, I'll enjoy this actual fun show, you can sod off and watch your depressing, pretentious, symbolism heavy, snobbish wankery.

You.

Yes, you.

I like you. Pretty much how I feel about the whole situation. Especially the last 2 words

Keep up the good work.

 

[Candidus]

As opposed to Little Witch Academia which didn't have nearly enough tits, ass, and "hoorah" speech. But it's okay since Kill la Kill points to it's own stupid anime cliches and laughs, so now it's brilliant. Post-ironic skeezing is totally fine.

Apparently this is now also the savior of anime for doing the exact same thing that's been killing anime for the past decade.

I loved Little Witch Academia and I'd have loved to see a series, but I also love Kill La Kill. I don't care about its pretense of irony either. I love it in ignorance of that.

Gratuitous tits and asses, battles, power levels and so on haven't been killing anime for the past decade. Nothing's been killing anime for the past decade; though a few anti-loli political bills with tons of hidden hooks and barbs have tried and failed. For the most part, people are continuing to get what most of them (including me) have always wanted, and the quality has steadily been going up. That's got to be the opposite of being killed.

There's nothing unpleasant about loving stylish, unapologetic dirty sex-fights. And in their case, there's no such thing as attrition either. There are always more but there are never enough.

 

[Jonluw]

While I can't speak for shinji, I'll try to answer in my own way. While author intent is always important to take into account, an author, creator, artist, or whatever, is not an infallible creator whose intent trumps all interpretation and makes anything they say suddenly free of the context of the greater society in which it exists.

While I agree author intent is not alpha and omega, I also believe you can't really get everything out of Kill la kill without being familiar with the creators. That means having to have watched Gurren lagann some time, and FLCL at least twice.

To use a famous example, when Upton Sinclair wrote The Jungle in 1906, he intended the book to expose the treatment of American immigrants of the time, and the horrible conditions they were forced to work in, by writing the book about workers in a meat packing plant. The American public however, interpreted the book as a horrifying account of food quality and the non-existant standards of the recently industrialized farming and slaughterhouse practices, and pretty much paved the way for the Act that would become the Federal Food and Drug Administration. Sinclair himself is rather famous for saying "I aimed at the public's heart and by accident hit its stomach".

What does any of that have to do with an over the top anime and gratuitous fanservice? Basically, what the author intends is irrelevant if he isn't communicating his message well, and in this case I think this anime has a serious case of wanting to have its cake and eat it too.

In my opinion, the series seems to be communicating its message really well. I had no problem getting it at least, but then again I'm familiar with Trigger.

The rant by Aikuro has meaning, and I can respect that, the message is fine, but after watching the previous two episodes it rings a bit hollow at the moment. Aikuro tells Ryuko not to care what society thinks, but Ryuko pretty much shows nothing but resistance to the ridiculous armor she's forced to wear (and the kind of rapey costume scenes don't really help either). Are we supposed to believe that Ryuko's only resistance to her fighting gear is because society says nudity is bad? What if Ryuko is just generally uncomfortable with having people staring at her, why should she trade listening to the majority for submitting to the tyranny of the minority and Aikuro's opinion.

I would say Ryuko's resistance isn't because of society's views (considering her character, I don't think she gives two shits about society generally. Note how even without the Kamui she just blatantly stepped out right in front of Satsuki. And attacked her.)
She even tells Mako's mother about how she hates people staring at her.
However, that's what she has to overcome: her own embarassment and discomfort. Because there is simply no other way forward for her than to wear that ludicrously skimpy outfit.

Is it all supposed to be metaphor, the skimpyness is just a standin for societal expectations or something like that, or maybe its that puberty metaphor and its genuinely about people being proud of their bodies? If that's the case then Gurren Lagann did it better, and Kamina didn't have to be in a thong to do it.

Kamina didn't have to be in a thong because Gurren lagann was about manliness.
It was a coming of age story from a male perspective, and sexual objectification and lust directed towards you is generally not something men have to deal with.

Sure, Trigger could have just made a carbon copy of Gurren lagann's message about believing in yourself and being strong, only with a female character in the lead instead, but that would ring a bit hollow.
What they've done is make a coming of age story featuring a female protagonist and then it's only right, in my opinion, to make a point of the issues faced uniquely by women; particularly regarding sexuality. I honestly think the series would be a good deal more boring if they chose to just treat Ryuko like a genderless entity, not touching upon sexual themes with the series.
I mean, it's a coming of age story. Sexuality and gender are pretty much the main issues of puberty. And knowing the people who created this series, they aren't the type to back away from sexual themes in their coming of age stories.

For instance: To any people who say that the drill in Gurren lagann isn't used as a phallic symbol:
I implore you to go watch Dead leaves, then come back and tell me that again.

Spoiler: Case in point

Yes, that dude on the right has a penis for a nose.

It comes off a little shallow in the end, but then again a lot of anime has that problem, it tries to tackle a serious issue, and yet tries to maintain the cliches surrounding that issue as well.

Personally, I love that.
Everything made by Gainax or Trigger is what you would call second generation anime. That is to say it is anime made by the otaku culture which grew up loving anime. It's a celebration of the tropes and cliches, and it's celebrating them by pulling it to the absolute extreme and executing it with excellence.
I'm not contending that the scenes involving nudity are intended to be enjoyed by the audience. After all, the staff of Trigger are more than happy to admit they enjoy seeing fanservice and drawing fanservice.
I mean: Listen to the sound effect whenever Ryuko's pajama pants are pulled down. "Hallelujah!"

To quote Daystar: It's a love letter, but it's taking the piss.

However, the series admitting that it enjoys sexuality makes it neither sexist or clumsyly executed. Pretty much everyone has sexuality (yes, women too) and it's a really fun and enjoyable aspect of life that should definitely be celebrated. To put it like this: There is nothing inherently sexist about pornography.

It's kind of telling that people say Gurren is about manliness, and this one covers female issues, yet the man one is all about giant robots while the female oriented one is about clothing, skimpy costumes, and getting ogled at.

I'm just going to refer to Kamui as mechs for a moment.

One of the central factors of undergoing puberty as a boy is growing a new, more bulky, larger (more hairy), and stronger body. A huge battle-mech if you will.
One of the central factors of undergoing puberty as a girl is growing a new, more curvy, body that suddenly gets you a lot of attention from the people around you. An embarassingly attention-getting revealing mech if you will. Still, it's a mech capable of pulling off just as amazing feats as the male mech.
I don't know what you remember from middle school, but at least where I went to middle school, the early blooming girls were constantly harassed, groped, ogled and bothered because of their new bodies.

I understand that to poke fun at cliches you need to include them to an extent, but this series is based around them. It's kind of hard to take their satire at face value when the entire premise still revolves around getting progressively more nude to power up, even if its a metaphor for shedding restrictions and expectation, the studio is still pretty much just doing it with young female characters, having the teacher or another character make a sly wink and a comment on it every once in awhile isn't going to suddenly make it deep biting satire.

I don't see why people think it's satire.
It's a love letter. It's just very self-aware as well; joking around with the cliches (such as making Ryuko's breasts flap around wildly in the transformation sequence. That's pretty funny.)

The series is not just poking fun at the cliches. It's exclaiming its love for the medium and all its quirks by playing the cliches to the extreme.

 

[Casual Shinji]

As opposed to Little Witch Academia which didn't have nearly enough tits, ass, and "hoorah" speech. But it's okay since Kill la Kill points to it's own stupid anime cliches and laughs, so now it's brilliant. Post-ironic skeezing is totally fine.

Apparently this is now also the savior of anime for doing the exact same thing that's been killing anime for the past decade.

I loved Little Witch Academia and I'd have loved to see a series, but I also love Kill La Kill. I don't care about its pretense of irony either. I love it in ignorance of that.

Gratuitous tits and asses, battles, power levels and so on haven't been killing anime for the past decade. Nothing's been killing anime for the past decade; though a few anti-loli political bills with tons of hidden hooks and barbs have tried and failed. For the most part, people are continuing to get what most of them (including me) have always wanted, and the quality has steadily been going up. That's got to be the opposite of being killed.

There's nothing unpleasant about loving stylish, unapologetic dirty sex-fights. And in their case, there's no such thing as attrition either. There are always more but there are never enough.

LWA was a breath of fresh air in an industry dominated by a mentallity of "Make sure the character design is tantalizing so people will wanna buy figurines of it". It's this mentallity that's been killing anime for me. Seeing Trigger go from LWA to Kill la Kill is dishearting to say the least.

And apart from that, the downfall of the anime movie isn't helping much either.

As I said before I got no problem with some fanservice here and there, but have some tact.

 

[Lunar Templar]

I only watched one and a half episodes after calling it quits.

And I honestly don't care at all about author's intent. An author can intend anything in hindsight, what matters is what's presented on screen. And what's on screen are ridiculously skimpy outfits that are in no way meant for audiences not to skeeze at. And the "Look how super over the top it is" angle doesn't bring it any more meaning.

I'm assuming this rant regarding "not giving a fuck about what other people think" is all about the main character not having to be ashamed for how slutty her battle suit looks. If that's the case then that's kinda a lazy excuse for hand-waving any criticism for putting characters in nipple wear.

hehe, You sound like me when talking about Eva, and while i do legitimately hate that show with a firey passion, yeah >.> its got 'authors intent' all over it to, and far as I'm concerned just as poorly executed, if not worse. But if you can't get in the head space for it due it it being visually off puting, then there's really no point bothering you about it further, since it would kinda require you to have watched the rest of the eps.

or you can go up a post from the post of your I quoted and read Jonluw's post, cause their doing a MUCH better job of this then I am XD

also, LWA is awesome, and I read there will be more of it so yay for that.

 

[Kyber]

Oh man, I just realized that the dog's name is Guts.
This show just got ten times better.

 

[TehCookie]

I watch a lot of crappy anime, but KlK is so bad I can't even tolerate it. I watched to ep 4 and dropped it, and I never drop series. There is nothing more to the show that mostly-naked girls fighting.

 

[Weaver]

As opposed to Little Witch Academia which didn't have nearly enough tits, ass, and "hoorah" speech. But it's okay since Kill la Kill points to it's own stupid anime cliches and laughs, so now it's brilliant. Post-ironic skeezing is totally fine.

Apparently this is now also the savior of anime for doing the exact same thing that's been killing anime for the past decade.

I loved Little Witch Academia and I'd have loved to see a series, but I also love Kill La Kill. I don't care about its pretense of irony either. I love it in ignorance of that.

Gratuitous tits and asses, battles, power levels and so on haven't been killing anime for the past decade. Nothing's been killing anime for the past decade; though a few anti-loli political bills with tons of hidden hooks and barbs have tried and failed. For the most part, people are continuing to get what most of them (including me) have always wanted, and the quality has steadily been going up. That's got to be the opposite of being killed.

There's nothing unpleasant about loving stylish, unapologetic dirty sex-fights. And in their case, there's no such thing as attrition either. There are always more but there are never enough.

My problem with Little Witch Academia is how much they clearly borrowed from Harry Potter.

 

[Full]

Great show, I think others have explained how I feel. It's a shot of adrenaline, really (like GL). The lingerie armor thing was pretty eh at first, but I like the supposed message/justification behind it, so it's fine as far as I see it.

 

[Candidus]

My problem with Little Witch Academia is how much they clearly borrowed from Harry Potter.

It's alright to borrow- hell, it's alright to plagiarize as far as I'm concerned *IF* what you're making is better than what it comes from.

In the case of Little Witch Academia, it absolutely was.

And this definitely isn't the total bias of someone who's always thought that HP is shit talking.
Nope. Definitely isn't that... ¬.¬;

 

[Casual Shinji]

hehe, You sound like me when talking about Eva, and while i do legitimately hate that show with a firey passion, yeah >.> its got 'authors intent' all over it to, and far as I'm concerned just as poorly executed, if not worse. But if you can't get in the head space for it due it it being visually off puting, then there's really no point bothering you about it further, since it would kinda require you to have watched the rest of the eps.

or you can go up a post from the post of your I quoted and read Jonluw's post, cause their doing a MUCH better job of this then I am XD

Ironically a criticism brought up against NGE is that fans read too much into it while the creator was apparently just flying by the seat of his pants during production, and has been known to say that there's no meaning to anything in the show. And here too, author's intent or lack of intent means little to me.

also, LWA is awesome, and I read there will be more of it so yay for that.

That is good news, though I hope that in serializing it it won't lose the "bombast" of the original. With that initial OVA it felt like they'd spent an entire serie's budget on those 26 minutes. It certainly looked like it.

 

[wolfyrik]

Honestly I'm not sure what to think of the series. Could do with an 'I R Confuse!' option in the poll.

Gurren, FLCL I loved, this has to be said. Couldn't get into 'Panty & Stocking' ...... a sentence I never thought I'd say.

This series is downright bizarre though. The satirical over-sexualisation is a little annoying and overdone, but i think it wouldn't quite be the same series if they took it out either.
The story is all over the place but genius since that confusion matches the art style.
The characters and art are hilarious (I've got the image of the hyperactive, over excited mako, mouth wide open with a smaller mako inside, seared into my brain).
The art seems to be settled on a Gendy Tartakovsky/Lauren Faust style, which works incredibly well for it. Maybe Sushio and Imaishi just preferred that look over the others used in Panty.
The series is japanese, with a western style in the way that Cartoon Network (Gendy/faust in particular but other attempts too) seemed to be western with a japanese style. Honestly I think it's a beautiful combo. Edit: note, it also has that bizarre 1940's japanese b-movie style, which in this context, is another genius move.

But like, what the hell, man? Ya know? I watch an episode and afterwards my brain is sort of stuck on
"OK WTF just happened?" It must be strange cos I gew on up on terrahawks, Star Fleet and Samurai Pizza Cats, then spent my teen years watching Excel Saga and Tank Police, yet still confused.

Maybe I'm just old?

Captcha: so-so. No, captcha, it definitely aint...

 

[Zak757]

So who liked episode 5? I really liked it, mainly because it shows that the plot still has room to thicken, characters still haven't completely developed, the backstory has yet to be filled in, and there exists a world outside the school which will be interact with the characters. I was worried it was going to be a club-member of the week show in which Ryuko gets beat up, some exposition happens, Mako does funny things, Senketsu transforms, enormous amount of fanservice/over the topness happens, Ryuko wins, next episode. The impression I got from this episode is that this isn't going to be the case. The Mako exposition happened again, but it was actually kind of heartwarming in a "DAAAW" sort of way. The teacher being part of an Anti-Uniform militia called "Nudist Beach" explains so much! There was also a lot less fanservice (and LOOK HOW OVER THE TOP WE ARE) this episode, which hopefully means were only going to get lots of it whenever the writers want to say something about it. The band scene was excellently done. Good to see the animation quality has picked up again, maybe episode 4 was a joke about episode 4 of TTGL (which hurt my eyes).

Also: "You and I need to become even stronger. No, we CAN become even stronger. If we're together." Considering this show is from the minds of TTGL, does this mean we're going to be throwing galaxies like shurikens later on? Anyway, I guess that also confirms Ryuko x Senketsu.

Also, fighting clothing using sewing machines turned into guns? That's genius.

 

[RJ 17]

All I know about the series is what I've seen in this reaction video:

Spoiler: Spoilers and Laughs inbound

Judging from what I've seen in this video.............I'd have to say Anime of the Year. And I haven't even seen a single episode.

 

[Ishal]

Then again, I had similar reactions to Guren Lagann. Never saw the appeal. I don't even like Cowboy Bebop, so as far as anime is concerned it's safe to say I have unorthodox tastes.

What do you think of Black Lagoon? I'm curious since I don't find Cowboy Bebob or Guren Lagann appealing either.

 

[Ishal]

What do you think of Black Lagoon? I'm curious since I don't find Cowboy Bebob or Guren Lagann appealing either.

I loved Black Lagoon. Not a trace of slapstick anywhere in it, and I can't remember any comedy either. Apart from a few failings around the end (mostly revolving a japanese voice actor trying to speak english), it's one of my favorites.

Interesting. I also loved it, but mostly due to the dub. I appreciate the original version, but I'm just one of those people who would rather not read subtitles. Thus I am pretty much the worst thing to most anime fans. The dubbing of that show is the best I've ever heard. It's better than Cowboy Bepop's.

It lacks slapstick, you're right, but it downplays a lot of notable tropes in anime and cuts the pedantic dialogue in a lot of scenes. Also, the city is a character in and of itself. That whole thing is glorious. Sad that it only got 20 some episodes plus the Roberta's Blood trail extras. Then we have show's like One Piece going on for 500 eps. Not that Black Lagoon should do that, heck no. But I would have loved to see a bit more.

 

[Weaver]

Then again, I had similar reactions to Guren Lagann. Never saw the appeal. I don't even like Cowboy Bebop, so as far as anime is concerned it's safe to say I have unorthodox tastes.

What do you think of Black Lagoon? I'm curious since I don't find Cowboy Bebob or Guren Lagann appealing either.

I thought black lagoon was alright. It's probably worth a watch if not just to experience Balalaika. Despite sharing her name with a Russian instrument because Japan sucks at foreign names; she is is probably one of the most "trope defying" female characters in anime.