Poll: Star Ocean5 censored in the west, misses the point still

[Fox12]

He explained why the game's spellcaster, Fiore, is wearing such a revealing outfit. "Fiore uses a lot of displayed crests on her skin to cast curses. That was part of her setting."

"She's breathing through her skin."
Yeah right. Where are her sweet tats she's covered in then? I don't see any.

I think they might only show up when she's casting the curses; I think I see one right here:

http://img.duniaku.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Star-Ocean-5-TGS-27.jpg

...It's a glowing white tat that runs down the inside of her leg...

Is there not actually a Japanese word for "subtle"?

I think it's called Hidetaka Miyazaki.

OT: is this what happened to the Star Ocean franchise after the second game? How depressing. Between this and that awful cut scene the real controversy should be how awful these games have gotten.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

This seems like less of a "breathing through their skin" issue and more of a "Japanese culture is cool with panty shots and Western culture isn't" issue.

Why that's specifically designated as a "Western culture" issue and not a "WTF do you even have stationary panty shots in a game" issue eludes me.

If there's a mature-rated game centered around a lot of action and movement, then it's likely that there would be more crotch and bottom shots, given that the developers aren't centering the camera on those establishing areas. However, masking the excuse of "Oh, the Western culture will be offended by seeing this in a panty shot, so well have something else in the panty shot" still seems to dodge the real reason why ANYONE might take offense to this.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Poll needs another option so I can vote for "I'm not offended even by no panties at all".

Though TBH I find briefs sexier than a thong, anyway. So in this case they've just made this character more appealing, not less. And to those saying "But she's a child!" - No, she's not. She's a bunch of shaders and textures. Learn to differentiate between fantasy and reality.

Clearly panties are offensive, less fabric is more offense, it's science!


I considered a rational not offended option but this rationality was more than this situation deserves.

If Japan already thinks this about western culture, the we[footnote] The ones who don't see a problem with underwear[/footnote] have already lost the "culture war". Just what are we supposed to do to reverse this? How can we convince an entire country that they don't need to keep censoring things like this?

People who disagree could always start up competing localization companies, offering to increase sales while decreasing the requirements of the company to modify their own work.

If enough customers truly disagree with the way the currents in charge are running things, you'll at the very least run the other independents out of business.

Nothing that can be done about the non-independant localization, aside from maybe getting a job there and offering counterpressure.

Supporting studios like Xseed and Aksys who don't censor stuff is the way to go. Beyond that and beyond not ceasing to be bothrred by cases like this, there's nothing else to do. I am optimistic personally.

 

[Erttheking]

Frankly the odds of something raising a fuss on any significant scale are minor, I'd even argue less than 1% if you just factor in the amount of games released and the amount who actually get attention this way and average it out. Even then a lot of the time the outrage just kinda goes nowhere.

Not just me then huh?

Eh yes and no. While the odds are pretty low, it actually can blow up pretty fast. Mainly cause of; Twitter, Youtube, Facebook, clickbait, etc. I mean one example is Hatred. If people had just left it alone, I wouldn't have known about it. I wonder if that's the plan here. I do know that I wasn't aware that Star Ocean 5 was a thing.

So some Devs might just decide to 'buckle, self censor, etc' and just try to make sure it doesn't offend. Even if it's just small bursts of arguing like this, that might be a dice roll that they don't want to make. I dunno, it's guess work and theory here.

Also it's not flickering color anymore. Yes.

I wasn't very clear, what I meant to say was that the outrage rarely ever translates into change that the people making the outrage want. It can go viral quickly, that I can see, but the victory list of people who got made is pretty damn shoot.

True. Course there's the question of how heavily the devs react. Some of them might just say "Oh, this needs some tweaking, whatever," while others might find it more upsetting. Hard to say, we haven't gotten the views of many devs on this matter.

No it isn't . But everyone lost their avatars.

 

[Bilious Green_v1legacy]

Poll needs another option so I can vote for "I'm not offended even by no panties at all".

Though TBH I find briefs sexier than a thong, anyway. So in this case they've just made this character more appealing, not less. And to those saying "But she's a child!" - No, she's not. She's a bunch of shaders and textures. Learn to differentiate between fantasy and reality.

They already have that. Captain Commando = no underwear at all. Have you not heard of "going commando"?

 

[infohippie]

Poll needs another option so I can vote for "I'm not offended even by no panties at all".

Though TBH I find briefs sexier than a thong, anyway. So in this case they've just made this character more appealing, not less. And to those saying "But she's a child!" - No, she's not. She's a bunch of shaders and textures. Learn to differentiate between fantasy and reality.

They already have that. Captain Commando = no underwear at all. Have you not heard of "going commando"?

The phrasing of the poll question suggests that commando is where you draw the line if you choose that option, however.

Yep, that's what I was getting at.

 

[May0]

off topic- Doesn't matter what kinda pantsu she has, the Star Ocean series died for me after the abomination that was 3.


On topic- This is yet another one of those easily fixable but totally bongled situations. I could list multiple different ways the devs could have handled this that would have not produced ire but it seems like they almost went out of their way to inflame this pantsu nonsense by inferring some western critics might find it offensive.

Without wanting to sound like I'm wearing a tin foil helmet I'd say this was a publicity stunt to get people caring about what will end up being another mediocre entry in the Star Ocean franchise.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Are all Japanese devs such huge pussies, or just Square Enix and Koei Tecmo?

I know I have the problem of curiosity. XD
Find it hard to resist just doing anything in a game just to see what happens...

Though an achievement would of course make it worse in general.

There's an achievement in Lollipop Chainsaw for peeking up the characters skirt.

Yeah, why am I not surprised. XD
I mean, I've never played it, but between the videos and advertising of it, and my experiences with 'No more heroes'... XD
Let's just say I'm not incredibly surprised.
(No more heroes messes with the same idea in a cutscene for one, although that's nowhere near the same as the game responding to the player's actions.)

They already had "Nappy Time with Edgy" in Last Hope, panty size is small potatoes.

<_< I 100%ed that game, English Voice Acting and all. Hopefully this isn't a sign that they're going to be dialing back the cringe; I didn't play the game for the deep plot, I played it to feel incredibly uncomfortable.

<spoiler=feel the cringe><youtube=8ACoTMFBGhU>

Well, cringe inducing, for sure. Wow.

And uhm. Yeah, changing the underwear doesn't really solve anything, but unless there are upskirt shots in the cutscenes it's not like you can fix this anyway.

If there's manual camera control, there's the possibility of perving on people.
I mean, that's true in real life as well, you can technically go up to a girl and look up her skirt, but the difference is she can probably see you doing that, and won't take kindly to it.

Since the camera in a game is non-corporeal, you can do it without consequence. But I'd like to see you solve this without causing bigger, more important problems...

Actually, some games like lolipop chainsaw and this ps4 jrpg I forget the name of,star quintette something,fhave begun making the camera corporeal if you maneuver it in a certain pervy way. The chars react and call you out on it and chainsw even has a trophy for it.

There truly are no new ideas under the sun, huh. Though I'm not particularly convinced this is actually a deterrent... XD

 

[CrystalShadow]

I mean, how seriously would you even take a rant from an NPC?

People don't like being called out on their actions in video games. It makes them feel bad.

Really? Because I can't say I care. It's a game.

If I'm going to feel bad about something I do in a game it's performing the act itself that makes me feel bad. If the game or characters or whatever react to what I chose to do, that probably wouldn't make me feel bad so much as amuse me.

Oh look, they bothered to code a reaction to this. Meaning someone thought about it, and what an appropriate response should be, and put in the effort to actually determine somehow whether you're doing something, and to make some kind of response to that happen.

I mean, it's the same as easter egg hunting on some level - Like the signs outside areas that you're supposed to be able to get to that say 'how did you get here?' or the like.

It's fun to explore how a game reacts, (or doesn't react) to what the player tries to do...

 

[sky14kemea]

I hope the devs go bankrupt, covering up is one thing but doing it because some ****** overseas told you not to is just fucking stupid.

[HEADING=2]Mod Thing[/HEADING]

I appreciate your enthusiasm but could you tone down the offensive language, please?

Some people find certain words offensive. [sub][sub][sub]yadda yadda yadda[/sub][/sub][/sub]

Thank you

 

[Combustion Kevin]

picked captain commando for the chuckle it got out of me, otherwise, full on nudity should be acceptable in my games.
If anything, add a toggle where you can choose how much of it you want to see, leave it to the individual player.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Yeah, why am I not surprised. XD
I mean, I've never played it, but between the videos and advertising of it, and my experiences with 'No more heroes'... XD
Let's just say I'm not incredibly surprised.

It's actually a pretty fun game. I never played No More Heroes. I wanted to, but I didn't have Nintendo.

OT: As a member of the PC Master Race, my first thought on reading this was that the modding community would change it back. Then I read it being for Playstation. Now I feel bad for my console cousins.

 

[Raioken18]

Generally the main characters in Star Ocean are around 19 years old. I feel like if they added a year and made them 20 this would be a non issue XD. Check out her height and figure, clearly meant to be in that late stage of development. The use of buzz worlds like younger girl or early teens totally skew the argument to make it seem like it is about children when it clearly isn't.

Take the newest Victoria Secret Angel, she has been a lingerie model since she was 15, a common practice in the west and the recommended entry age into the industry (With a guardian's permission this is completely legal, though you aren't allowed to show lady bits until she is 18). You'd see women younger than these characters, wearing only lingerie, in magazines, everywhere, completely sexualized. Which is why people get upset when these sort of things are censored in such a heavily sexualized society. It really does seem like gamers are discriminated against.

I think people struggle to get over facial characteristics that aren't common to their culture, where as in the east those features are stylistically more prevalent.

Personally it doesn't really bother me either way. But if I had to pick a side I would be for the anti-censorship.

It does seem crazy though, a video game character with the appearance of a 19 year old can't wear lingerie under her clothes but a real life girl of 15 can get a photo shoot only wearing lingerie. A woman of the same age could be doing hardcore pornography.

Where's the logic?

 

[go-10]

Her profile says she's over 18 so as far as I'm concerned she's fair game to wear whatever she wants.

I would agree, except she's not a person. She's a product being sold. Only people can have fashion sense. Characters have visual design.

I don't think visual design should be limited to single type of style. I don't see why I character should not be allowed to wear a thong if that's how the dev team visualizes it, what's wrong with that?

 

[JimB]

Her profile says she's over 18 so as far as I'm concerned she's fair game to wear whatever she wants.

I would agree, except she's not a person. She's a product being sold. Only people can have fashion sense. Characters have visual design.

I don't think visual design should be limited to single type of style.

I did not argue it should be. I argued that I disagree with your seeming premise that an imaginary person has agency to choose her own clothing and I must respect that imaginary person's agency as if it's real.

I don't see why I character should not be allowed to wear a thong if that's how the dev team visualizes it, what's wrong with that?

I am in a somewhat altered frame of mind at the moment and thus cannot answer your question because I cannot bring myself to care what a character whose name I don't even know is wearing in a game I have no interest in playing. If I could be assed, I would probably say what's wrong with it is that it's annoying to be sold imaginary ass as if that is a thing I want or need in my life.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Generally the main characters in Star Ocean are around 19 years old. I feel like if they added a year and made them 20 this would be a non issue XD. Check out her height and figure, clearly meant to be in that late stage of development. The use of buzz worlds like younger girl or early teens totally skew the argument to make it seem like it is about children when it clearly isn't.

Take the newest Victoria Secret Angel, she has been a lingerie model since she was 15, a common practice in the west and the recommended entry age into the industry (With a guardian's permission this is completely legal, though you aren't allowed to show lady bits until she is 18). You'd see women younger than these characters, wearing only lingerie, in magazines, everywhere, completely sexualized. Which is why people get upset when these sort of things are censored in such a heavily sexualized society. It really does seem like gamers are discriminated against.

I think people struggle to get over facial characteristics that aren't common to their culture, where as in the east those features are stylistically more prevalent.

Personally it doesn't really bother me either way. But if I had to pick a side I would be for the anti-censorship.

It does seem crazy though, a video game character with the appearance of a 19 year old can't wear lingerie under her clothes but a real life girl of 15 can get a photo shoot only wearing lingerie. A woman of the same age could be doing hardcore pornography.

Where's the logic?

I'm not really sure where you're getting this can't from. It's not been outlawed. Some Japanese company still hasn't learned that there is close to zero overlap between the people who would buy their game, and the people who would be offended by it, so they altered something to make it more marketable. They're still allowed to release the game, lingerie and all, if they want. At worst, a few people might have criticized the game for its depiction of women, but it's not like the modeling industry escapes criticism from gender politics.
Both are legal, and both get criticized, so I'm not seeing the double standard you seem to be implying.

 

[Einspanner]

I'd actually respect this debate if people could just get off their staggering, groaning high horses and be real. You want fanservice, it's not about "Censorship". When you try to make it about "Censorship" you're basically ensuring that even people who don't care, but would be sympathetic, just find you tiresome.

 

[MCerberus]

Not being a fan of the series, is this one of those games where "She's 18. no really. Stop calling the cops." happens? Because that's a thing, and both sides of the ocean have a really weird obsession with sexualizing minors and screaming about culture when called out.

In either case nobody actually complained about it and Squeenix is just waving its arms around pretending the reanimated corpses of its flagships are still appealing and relevant. At least someone complained about the obviously 20-something Tracer, even if 20-somethings enjoy feeling sexy (as do many, many older people. I'm starting to think Blizz views premarital sex the same way horror movie writers)