Poll: Star Ocean5 censored in the west, misses the point still

[Einspanner]

Not being a fan of the series, is this one of those games where "She's 18. no really. Stop calling the cops." happens? Because that's a thing, and both sides of the ocean have a really weird obsession with sexualizing minors and screaming about culture when called out.

In either case nobody actually complained about it and Squeenix is just waving its arms around pretending the reanimated corpses of its flagships are still appealing and relevant. At least someone complained about the obviously 20-something Tracer, even if 20-somethings enjoy feeling sexy (as do many, many older people. I'm starting to think Blizz views premarital sex the same way horror movie writers)

I'm just going to drop this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/40ilv9/porn_companies_and_disney_shows_are_looking_to/

I think it sort of goes to what you're talking about?

 

[go-10]

I am in a somewhat altered frame of mind at the moment and thus cannot answer your question because I cannot bring myself to care what a character whose name I don't even know is wearing in a game I have no interest in playing. If I could be assed, I would probably say what's wrong with it is that it's annoying to be sold imaginary ass as if that is a thing I want or need in my life.

the way I see it, if a person designs a character for a product they are creating they deserve full control over what that character looks like... but whatever I guess it doesn't matter, since a thong is not the reason I buy/play these type of games

 

[Einspanner]

I am in a somewhat altered frame of mind at the moment and thus cannot answer your question because I cannot bring myself to care what a character whose name I don't even know is wearing in a game I have no interest in playing. If I could be assed, I would probably say what's wrong with it is that it's annoying to be sold imaginary ass as if that is a thing I want or need in my life.

the way I see it, if a person designs a character for a product they are creating they deserve full control over what that character looks like... but whatever I guess it doesn't matter, since a thong is not the reason I buy/play these type of games

If you want full control of something, don't make it under contract for a company that owns it, or don't sell it. What you're describing is "Having cake and eating it too."

 

[MCerberus]

Not being a fan of the series, is this one of those games where "She's 18. no really. Stop calling the cops." happens? Because that's a thing, and both sides of the ocean have a really weird obsession with sexualizing minors and screaming about culture when called out.

In either case nobody actually complained about it and Squeenix is just waving its arms around pretending the reanimated corpses of its flagships are still appealing and relevant. At least someone complained about the obviously 20-something Tracer, even if 20-somethings enjoy feeling sexy (as do many, many older people. I'm starting to think Blizz views premarital sex the same way horror movie writers)

I'm just going to drop this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/40ilv9/porn_companies_and_disney_shows_are_looking_to/

I think it sort of goes to what you're talking about?

I was going to write something up, but South Park beat me to it by *looks at calendar* my god.
And that's not a dodge escaping having to make up something clever. Clearly.

 

[Einspanner]

Not being a fan of the series, is this one of those games where "She's 18. no really. Stop calling the cops." happens? Because that's a thing, and both sides of the ocean have a really weird obsession with sexualizing minors and screaming about culture when called out.

In either case nobody actually complained about it and Squeenix is just waving its arms around pretending the reanimated corpses of its flagships are still appealing and relevant. At least someone complained about the obviously 20-something Tracer, even if 20-somethings enjoy feeling sexy (as do many, many older people. I'm starting to think Blizz views premarital sex the same way horror movie writers)

I'm just going to drop this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/40ilv9/porn_companies_and_disney_shows_are_looking_to/

I think it sort of goes to what you're talking about?

I was going to write something up, but South Park beat me to it by *looks at calendar* my god.
And that's not a dodge escaping having to make up something clever. Clearly.

"Our beer tastes like it was pissed out by the brewmaster."
"We're ruined!"
"WAIT... I have an idea."
*Everyone at once* "YES?!"
...
....
.....
"Tits."

-The Budweiser story.

 

[MCerberus]

Not being a fan of the series, is this one of those games where "She's 18. no really. Stop calling the cops." happens? Because that's a thing, and both sides of the ocean have a really weird obsession with sexualizing minors and screaming about culture when called out.

In either case nobody actually complained about it and Squeenix is just waving its arms around pretending the reanimated corpses of its flagships are still appealing and relevant. At least someone complained about the obviously 20-something Tracer, even if 20-somethings enjoy feeling sexy (as do many, many older people. I'm starting to think Blizz views premarital sex the same way horror movie writers)

I'm just going to drop this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/40ilv9/porn_companies_and_disney_shows_are_looking_to/

I think it sort of goes to what you're talking about?

I was going to write something up, but South Park beat me to it by *looks at calendar* my god.
And that's not a dodge escaping having to make up something clever. Clearly.

"Our beer tastes like it was pissed out by the brewmaster."
"We're ruined!"
"WAIT... I have an idea."
*Everyone at once* "YES?!"
...
....
.....
"Tits."

-The Budweiser story.

Hey I'm from St. Louis. We don't need any help with our shame.
At least AB and all the beer companies have to show their party tit-havers as being 21. I'm more against the culture counting down days until celebs are legal or the crowd where its good their waifu isn't real because of statutory rape laws.

 

[Einspanner]

Not being a fan of the series, is this one of those games where "She's 18. no really. Stop calling the cops." happens? Because that's a thing, and both sides of the ocean have a really weird obsession with sexualizing minors and screaming about culture when called out.

In either case nobody actually complained about it and Squeenix is just waving its arms around pretending the reanimated corpses of its flagships are still appealing and relevant. At least someone complained about the obviously 20-something Tracer, even if 20-somethings enjoy feeling sexy (as do many, many older people. I'm starting to think Blizz views premarital sex the same way horror movie writers)

I'm just going to drop this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/40ilv9/porn_companies_and_disney_shows_are_looking_to/

I think it sort of goes to what you're talking about?

I was going to write something up, but South Park beat me to it by *looks at calendar* my god.
And that's not a dodge escaping having to make up something clever. Clearly.

"Our beer tastes like it was pissed out by the brewmaster."
"We're ruined!"
"WAIT... I have an idea."
*Everyone at once* "YES?!"
...
....
.....
"Tits."

-The Budweiser story.

Hey I'm from St. Louis. We don't need any help with our shame.
At least AB and all the beer companies have to show their party tit-havers as being 21. I'm more against the culture counting down days until celebs are legal or the crowd where its good their waifu isn't real because of statutory rape laws.

Hey, on a totally serious note, St. Louis is a great place that doesn't get talked about enough for being a great place. Not perfect of course, but one of the places in the US that I'd live. And the beer you know, it could be worse, you could be Australian and have to constantly explain that you're not even responsible for Foster's.

 

[go-10]

I am in a somewhat altered frame of mind at the moment and thus cannot answer your question because I cannot bring myself to care what a character whose name I don't even know is wearing in a game I have no interest in playing. If I could be assed, I would probably say what's wrong with it is that it's annoying to be sold imaginary ass as if that is a thing I want or need in my life.

the way I see it, if a person designs a character for a product they are creating they deserve full control over what that character looks like... but whatever I guess it doesn't matter, since a thong is not the reason I buy/play these type of games

If you want full control of something, don't make it under contract for a company that owns it, or don't sell it. What you're describing is "Having cake and eating it too."

well I don't agree with it... I don't see why I should be obligated to believe in the same thing you do. Once again it doesn't matter since the people that play these games are a vocal minority

 

[Einspanner]

I am in a somewhat altered frame of mind at the moment and thus cannot answer your question because I cannot bring myself to care what a character whose name I don't even know is wearing in a game I have no interest in playing. If I could be assed, I would probably say what's wrong with it is that it's annoying to be sold imaginary ass as if that is a thing I want or need in my life.

the way I see it, if a person designs a character for a product they are creating they deserve full control over what that character looks like... but whatever I guess it doesn't matter, since a thong is not the reason I buy/play these type of games

If you want full control of something, don't make it under contract for a company that owns it, or don't sell it. What you're describing is "Having cake and eating it too."

well I don't agree with it... I don't see why I should be obligated to believe in the same thing you do. Once again it doesn't matter since the people that play these games are a vocal minority

I've played absolutely ever Star Ocean game. Ever. Period.

With that out of the way, you don't have to believe anything that I do, but if you want to express a belief in having cake AND eating it, I'd like to understand why artists are so special. Why can someone invent a chip architecture, or discover a pharmaceutical, which their company owns, but if you paint a pixel it's yours to control until death do you part?

 

[go-10]

I am in a somewhat altered frame of mind at the moment and thus cannot answer your question because I cannot bring myself to care what a character whose name I don't even know is wearing in a game I have no interest in playing. If I could be assed, I would probably say what's wrong with it is that it's annoying to be sold imaginary ass as if that is a thing I want or need in my life.

the way I see it, if a person designs a character for a product they are creating they deserve full control over what that character looks like... but whatever I guess it doesn't matter, since a thong is not the reason I buy/play these type of games

If you want full control of something, don't make it under contract for a company that owns it, or don't sell it. What you're describing is "Having cake and eating it too."

well I don't agree with it... I don't see why I should be obligated to believe in the same thing you do. Once again it doesn't matter since the people that play these games are a vocal minority

I've played absolutely ever Star Ocean game. Ever. Period.

With that out of the way, you don't have to believe anything that I do, but if you want to express a belief in having cake AND eating it, I'd like to understand why artists are so special. Why can someone invent a chip architecture, or discover a pharmaceutical, which their company owns, but if you paint a pixel it's yours to control until death do you part?

sorry I don't wanna drag this on anymore, you're right I'm wrong

 

[Orga777]

Let us just get this out of the way now. Pointless fanservice does nothing more than drive home the point that this is not meant to be taken seriously, and automatically takes you out of the experience. It adds absolutely nothing to the narrative, and the only thing it accomplishes is showing how eye-rolling it all is. If characters are talking about something you are supposed to take seriously due to high stakes or whatever, and we see some girls underwear for absolutely no reason, how serious are we supposed to take such a blatant disregard for their own art? To me, games that go the cheap fanservice route are afraid that their own game that they made can't survive on its own merits so they need to throw in random titillation to distract the perverts. It is nothing more than a cheap gimmick that is meant mostly for the Japanese audience. Of course this crap isn't going to fly in the West, it is eye-rolling and weird. Square catering to specific markets makes sense and is not a big deal. Time to get over it people.

 

[MCerberus]

Let us just get this out of the way now. Pointless fanservice does nothing more than drive home the point that this is not meant to be taken seriously, and automatically takes you out of the experience. It adds absolutely nothing to the narrative, and the only thing it accomplishes is showing how eye-rolling it all is. If characters are talking about something you are supposed to take seriously due to high stakes or whatever, and we see some girls underwear for absolutely no reason, how serious are we supposed to take such a blatant disregard for their own art? To me, games that go the cheap fanservice route are afraid that their own game that they made can't survive on its own merits so they need to throw in random titillation to distract the perverts. It is nothing more than a cheap gimmick that is meant only for the Japanese audience. Of course this crap isn't going to fly in the West, it is eye-rolling and weird. Square catering to specific markets makes sense and is not a big deal. Time to get over it people.

Defending the artistic merits of fanservice *shudder*, it does have its uses. It's almost never used correctly, but...
First, it can be a tonal break. If things are too serious too long, things get monotonous and bleak.
It can be used as intentional juxtaposition in an attempt to highlight the wrongness of a thing or the world (the writers claim MGS5 attempted to do this with whisper. Nobody believes him)
Finally, social commentary/parody.

Most examples of fan-service however are just trying to light up the same brain responses as pornography. Which is why I will never see a certain volleyball franchise as artistically valid.

 

[Orga777]

Defending the artistic merits of fanservice *shudder*, it does have its uses. It's almost never used correctly, but...
First, it can be a tonal break. If things are too serious too long, things get monotonous and bleak.
It can be used as intentional juxtaposition in an attempt to highlight the wrongness of a thing or the world (the writers claim MGS5 attempted to do this with whisper. Nobody believes him)
Finally, social commentary/parody.

Most examples of fan-service however are just trying to light up the same brain responses as pornography. Which is why I will never see a certain volleyball franchise as artistically valid.

I agree with all of this. "Fanservice" does have uses if used correctly. Which is why I personally highlighted the pointless fanservice aspect. Sometimes it can be used just for something silly, and most of the time it doesn't bother me at all. Or it could be something that is meant to be sexual for certain scenes, and when handled properly, can be also done decently. But just flashing panty shots or just being borderline porn (like DOA Extreme or whatever crap that is) serves no purpose and never will serve a purpose, which is what most fanservice is at this point in Japanese media.

 

[JimB]

I am in a somewhat altered frame of mind at the moment and thus cannot answer your question because I cannot bring myself to care what a character whose name I don't even know is wearing in a game I have no interest in playing. If I could be assed, I would probably say what's wrong with it is that it's annoying to be sold imaginary ass as if that is a thing I want or need in my life.

The way I see it, if a person designs a character for a product they are creating they deserve full control over what that character looks like...but whatever I guess it doesn't matter, since a thong is not the reason I buy/play these type of games.

In what way is this choice not entirely in the hands of the creative teams? If I remember the article correctly (and I'm on my phone, so it's too much of a pain in the ass to go back and check), the creative director asserted complete control over the choice, owning it totally. It read very much to me as if he preferred to sacrifice the purity of his vision for international sales appeal, and is that not his choice to make?

 

[go-10]

I am in a somewhat altered frame of mind at the moment and thus cannot answer your question because I cannot bring myself to care what a character whose name I don't even know is wearing in a game I have no interest in playing. If I could be assed, I would probably say what's wrong with it is that it's annoying to be sold imaginary ass as if that is a thing I want or need in my life.

The way I see it, if a person designs a character for a product they are creating they deserve full control over what that character looks like...but whatever I guess it doesn't matter, since a thong is not the reason I buy/play these type of games.

In what way is this choice not entirely in the hands of the creative teams? If I remember the article correctly (and I'm on my phone, so it's too much of a pain in the ass to go back and check), the creative director asserted complete control over the choice, owning it totally. It read very much to me as if he preferred to sacrifice the purity of his vision for international sales appeal, and is that not his choice to make?

I never said this wasn't his decision, I specifically said the creator SHOULD have full control of the character design. So either dressing them up or down I believe the developer has every right to make that decision

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Not being a fan of the series, is this one of those games where "She's 18. no really. Stop calling the cops." happens? Because that's a thing, and both sides of the ocean have a really weird obsession with sexualizing minors and screaming about culture when called out.

In either case nobody actually complained about it and Squeenix is just waving its arms around pretending the reanimated corpses of its flagships are still appealing and relevant. At least someone complained about the obviously 20-something Tracer, even if 20-somethings enjoy feeling sexy (as do many, many older people. I'm starting to think Blizz views premarital sex the same way horror movie writers)

How exactly are people supposed to complain when the game isn't released yet.

I'd actually respect this debate if people could just get off their staggering, groaning high horses and be real. You want fanservice, it's not about "Censorship". When you try to make it about "Censorship" you're basically ensuring that even people who don't care, but would be sympathetic, just find you tiresome.

But here's the thing, fanservice is still there. You can still see her underwear, it's just larger underwear, as though that fixes something. You're operating under the false premise that enlarging the underwear has any at all effect regarding this type of fanservice. It doesn't. With that established, we can say without a doubt it is not the lack of fanservice that summons the complaint, as the fanservice is still there.

 

[Disco Biscuit]

Undertale is another, more recent example of exactly what you're talking about. The people who hated it, seemed to hate it because it held them to something like accountability. Once they got over the shock, they started to call it "preachy", but at first they were just raging.

I saw Jim Sterling played it, looked like it was absolutely not something that interested me, and moved on. I basically took the hate as the usual "something I don't like is popular" stuff and ignored it. So I really couldn't tell you.

Lucky you! I did the same thing, but then didn't ignore it. Big mistake.

But here's the thing, fanservice is still there. You can still see her underwear, it's just larger underwear, as though that fixes something. You're operating under the false premise that enlarging the underwear has any at all effect regarding this type of fanservice. It doesn't. With that established, we can say without a doubt it is not the lack of fanservice that summons the complaint, as the fanservice is still there.

Are you trying to say that an alteration so minor that it doesn't change the tittilation is somehow 'Big C' Censorship?

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Undertale is another, more recent example of exactly what you're talking about. The people who hated it, seemed to hate it because it held them to something like accountability. Once they got over the shock, they started to call it "preachy", but at first they were just raging.

I saw Jim Sterling played it, looked like it was absolutely not something that interested me, and moved on. I basically took the hate as the usual "something I don't like is popular" stuff and ignored it. So I really couldn't tell you.

Lucky you! I did the same thing, but then didn't ignore it. Big mistake.

But here's the thing, fanservice is still there. You can still see her underwear, it's just larger underwear, as though that fixes something. You're operating under the false premise that enlarging the underwear has any at all effect regarding this type of fanservice. It doesn't. With that established, we can say without a doubt it is not the lack of fanservice that summons the complaint, as the fanservice is still there.

Are you trying to say that an alteration so minor that it doesn't change the tittilation is somehow 'Big C' Censorship?

The thinking behind it is always what one takes issue with, no matter how big or small the alteration is it is the principle behind it that is being addressed. The minor degree of the changes serves to showcase that at least in this case the complaint doesn't stem from "creepy fanservice loving perverts who are to be dismissed without care" as is often the narrative used to minimize a legitimate point in cases like this.

Big c or whatever doesn't matter, it's silly and wrong and hilarious but ultimately a needless thing we should be against if we wish to remain consistent in our appreciation for freedom of the arts/expresssion/etc. I never made a big C tier deal out of it in the entire topic but at the same time it isn't a good thing either.

 

[Elfgore]

If they really want to lower the sexiness, they should just put her in spats. Way easier to fight in and so much cooler!!

Being serious, this change is so minor and unimportant that I'm kinda shocked anyone could be angry about it. Looking at those two pictures and I can't even really tell a difference so.... Yeah.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

Here I jumped into the thread thinking the censorship was something important, but I get the feeling that nowadays when gamers cry about censorship it's about the the Tits and asses... y'know important things to a games message or mechanics.