Poll: Star Trek: Yay or Nay?

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thewaever

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Ok, I just finished watching the movie, & I don't really see what it was that ticked off Movie Bob so much.

So! Esteemed Escapists, I'm looking for more opinions on the film. Please give clear examples. Spoil if you have to. There's tons of warning here.

Like,
"In the scene where The Big Bad blows up the the local star ship captains at the start of the movie, Kirk fires on him with a phaser. The phaser recoils. That bothered me enough to break my suspension of disbelief. Phasers don't have recoil."

And another,
"In the scene with the radiation door, I liked that they mirrored the similar scene in the earlier film. Yeah, Spock was a little melodramatic at the end, but that really matched the earlier film, too, so I'm ok with it."



In my opinion, the movie wasn't stupendous great. The Big Bad was waaay melodramatic. Marcus' accent was difficult to follow & odd that her dad was such a Yankie. But, overall, it was a fun film with enough connections to the original series that I felt like it was an authentic Star Trek movie, unlike certain other sci-fi prequel/reboots I could mention (*cough*cough*STARWARS!*cough*cough*)

Ok, so, what say you?
 

haruvister

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Jun 4, 2008
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I can't vote as it I didn't love it but it was better than alright... I liked it. Bob's review was just bizarre, opening by claiming that the first film was mediocre (implying he'd already made up his mind about the sequel), and then insisting on spoilers. It's a well-made and thrilling adventure, nicely acted, with a brilliant second act. The pretty bow ending bothered me a bit (missed opportunity for something truly bold in that regard), but generally it was a high quality blockbuster.
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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What is "Star Trak"? Sounds like some space rap single.

Ads for Star Trek - haven't seen that movie. Or any of the others. Never really was big into it.
 

thewaever

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Mar 4, 2010
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Ugh, that was silly. K, edited for spelling & added a few, less extreme options on the poll. Thanks for pointing out the problems.


Oh, & to add a little more meat to the discussion...

It was strange to me how the ships, despite being totally disabled 237,000 kilometers away from Earth fell into Earth so quickly, or even at all. I mean, shouldn't they be in orbit for that to happen?
Oh, & this was the big problem I had with the movie, it's really, really strange to me that the Vengeance didn't notice Scotty's little shuttlecraft sneaking up on the secret shipyard. Even if the Vengeance wasn't functional (even though it totally was), shouldn't the shipyard's sensors have picked up the SHIP that was approaching it? I mean, there's no way their sensors could've missed it. Same goes for when the ships came out of warp inside the Earth's solar system. Is there no planetary defense/communication system?

On the other hand, I think the Big Baddy being Khan actually helped the story, rather than hindering it like Bob said. I mean, for example, him being Khan gives a reason for the ship to crash land into Earth in the first place & San Francisco in particular. Also, nice dodge on showing the ship crash in the movie trailer. Even if the Big Bad's secret was out of the bag, they got me with that switcheroo.
 

TimeLord

For the Emperor!
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Aug 15, 2008
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I really like the new Star Trek reboot. MovieBob just hates JJ Abrams.

The thing about phasers recoiling is a thing but they had recoiling hand phasers in the first film so they are at least keeping it consistent.

All in all I love the new films and have seen Into Darkness twice now. The whole Khan thing wasn't a big deal as a reveal to me as it was a very poorly kept secret.

I know most die hard fans will hate it but Kirk dying and Spock shouting "KHAAAAAAAN!" was really good in my opinion!
 

shrekfan246

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May 26, 2011
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TimeLord said:
I know most die hard fans will hate it but Kirk dying and Spock shouting "KHAAAAAAAN!" was really good in my opinion!
The role reversal was cute in my opinion.

OT: I liked it. It felt more "Star Trek-y" than the 2009 film, even though it still primarily focused on big action sequences. The callbacks and references were subtle enough that they didn't really feel out of place or patronizing, and the writing was much more solid than the previous film.

I've got a ton of little nitpicks, to be sure. For one, the scale of the ships seemed extremely odd and skewed toward being too small when viewed from the outside; I know that canonically pre-Abrams the Constitution was a very small ship class, but the model seemed almost too small comparative to when they did scenes inside of it. I also question the sector layout if the Klingon homeworld is on the border of the Neutral Zone between the Federation and Klingon Empire. I wish there had been more dialogue outside of action scenes. The ending felt a bit rushed, despite how long the film actually runs, and there wasn't enough closure for me concerning events that happen earlier in the film. And the obvious weird physics of being pulled down by Earth's gravity so quickly.

But I thought it was a pretty solid film. Granted, I also like all of the TNG films, but I think it's at least better than Insurrection so by that token I think it's fair to say it stands up against most of the pre-Abrams Star Trek films.
 

A_Parked_Car

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Oct 30, 2009
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It was a big, dumb summer blockbuster that I had a lot of fun watching. There isn't much more to add really. Sure, it has plot holes and such, but those don't really matter in a movie like this. I just accept that one thing leads to another so that action and/or adventure can take place. The end felt rushed somehow though.
 

Bleidd Whitefalcon

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Mar 8, 2012
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I was PISSED when they brought Kirk back from the dead. If you're going to pull something like that, have the balls to make it stick! That was poor writing there
 

BM19

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Sep 24, 2012
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Eh, it certainly had its issues.

Like how there is a suit that can handle lava onboard for some reason, yet there isn't a radiation suit to deal with the reactor on-board.
Or how the villain crashes a massive starship into the city and it's just kind of handwaved off.
Or how the villain never thought to check that the torpedoes he transported onto his ship might be... You know... ACTUAL torpedoes? (Seriously, was anyone surprised by that?)
Or how Alice Eve pretty much existed for that one scene where she strips in front of Kir --
... Actually, scratch that. I quite like that scene. For obvious reasons.

There's more issues, but honestly, I enjoyed it. It was kind of dumb at parts and I wish they'd given SOME of the characters an actual arc aside from Kirk vaguely learning to "respect the chair", but on the whole it was an entertaining way to spend an evening.

Though, admittedly, I haven't seen much of the show(s), so I can see why fans might be upset that it dumbed-down the source material a bit.
 

Devil's Due

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Sep 27, 2008
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BM19 said:
Eh, it certainly had its issues.

Like how there is a suit that can handle lava onboard for some reason, yet there isn't a radiation suit to deal with the reactor on-board.
Or how the villain crashes a massive starship into the city and it's just kind of handwaved off.
Or how the villain never thought to check that the torpedoes he transported onto his ship might be... You know... ACTUAL torpedoes? (Seriously, was anyone surprised by that?)
Or how Alice Eve pretty much existed for that one scene where she strips in front of Kir --
... Actually, scratch that. I quite like that scene. For obvious reasons.

There's more issues, but honestly, I enjoyed it. It was kind of dumb at parts and I wish they'd given SOME of the characters an actual arc aside from Kirk vaguely learning to "respect the chair", but on the whole it was an entertaining way to spend an evening.

Though, admittedly, I haven't seen much of the show(s), so I can see why fans might be upset that it dumbed-down the source material a bit.
While I agree there was a lot of issues, the ones you listed aren't really plotholes.

1) They do have radiation suits, you see them in it later in the background when Kirk is laying on the medbay table dead, they extracted him. Kirk didn't have the time to put it on, cause, as you remember, they were able to fall into the Earth and their anti gravity unit was on the fritz. They literally had barely enough time to do their current task, there was no time to suit up.
2) A lot of things are waved off, such as Vulcan getting destroyed, we never really see anything after that other than a few characters remarks. Just not enough time in these movies.
3) The Torpedoes WERE actual torpedoes, remember? They were rigged to explode while also acting as hibernation units for the crew, so to prevent tampering with. Khan just assumed since the explosives were still armed that the Enterprise did not successfully mess with them or took out his crew since earlier when they tried to it nearly killed Bones.

The only real issue I have of the movies is that Earth never seems to actually have any proper security, dispite being the head of the entire Federation. Neither this movie or the first are there patrolling ships, so the big bads always fly in unopposed and lay waste. You'd think they'd have more since just a year earlier Nemo almost destroyed the Earth entirely. Yes, there was, what, 3 other Captains there who died in the assault? But still, only 4 real ships defending the entire planet of Earth? With a future population that is booming, I'm sure the Federation could increase their recruiment enough to get more ships to defend themselves before expanding and sending them off.
 

octafish

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Apr 23, 2010
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Whitest. South. Asian. Man. Ever.


Why the fuck would you get the whitest man alive to play Khan?

...and where is the nerd outrage about this? Or do we not.care.when roles.for.brown people are played by white people just vica versa.
 

KingmanHighborn

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Nov 8, 2010
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They didn't 'dumb down' the source material at all, this is by far and above the best Trek movie ever made. With number 2 being JJ's first Star Trek movie. Khan is actually badass in this one, the Klingons new looks is cool and really doesn't deviate that much, plus the batklith actually showed as something that could do some hurt (sliced deep into a rock) Most of the Shatner era movies, had no real balls or teeth, this movie had it in spades. The action was amazing and despite Bob's whining the action is what is severally lacking in most Trek movies. The torpedo switch is something that I thought was clever and cool, there was a tribble. Also when they came out of warp like they did, their inertia would of still carried them to Earth pretty dang quickly. Leonard Nimoy ruled in his scenes...again. And for kickers, come on it had Caitians, and who doesn't love sexy catgirls?
 

chakkerz

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TimeLord said:
MovieBob just hates JJ Abrams.
That's the conclusion I came to as well. I mean the movie is dreadful if you look at it from an academic perspective and as a reviewer I get that MovieBob get's frustrated, but slack that many other films might get (Iron Man 2, Scott Pilgrim) just went out the window by just focusing on the bad, which would not bother most movie-goers.

The first one was great, not a great movie, but a great action sci-fi flick to spend an afternoon on. Into Darkness is weaker with less variety and less action, but it's still quite a good ride...
 

chakkerz

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I just rewatched the review and really, the criticism is fair. I don't agree to the same extent but I also don't have any special love for Star Trek arguably making more of the target audience (which here, yes, means I'm a bit more ignorant). And although his criticism mostly comes down to J.J. Abrams's boy band of writers, visual flair and hiding behind marketing.

I liked the movie more than Bob, but his points are reasonable and valid. In the end I agree with how Desert Punk put it, it's better than alright, though (I would add) far from great.
 

Flames66

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Aug 22, 2009
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My thoughts on the film are as follows:

Bendy Cucumber did fine as Khan. He was not the right actor for the role, but he was the one that got it and he played it well.

It's a bit too actiony.

Why, when Kirk was all banged up and they were out of Khan Juice did they not snatch some blood from the 72 equally genetically suped up chaps they had frozen in their sick bay?

Shaun (of the Dead) could have done the Scotty voice a bit better, but at least it wasn't over the top.

Why are the Klingons so pointy now?

Bit tooo heavy on the Wrath references there, Oh no don't do it KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!

EDIT: Oh yea almost forgot, get some Matte surfaces on the ship, I can't see shit past all the shiny lens flair.
 

Froggy Slayer

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thewaever said:
Ok, I just finished watching the movie, & I don't really see what it was that ticked off Movie Bob so much.

So! Esteemed Escapists, I'm looking for more opinions on the film. Please give clear examples. Spoil if you have to. There's tons of warning here.

Like,
"In the scene where The Big Bad blows up the the local star ship captains at the start of the movie, Kirk fires on him with a phaser. The phaser recoils. That bothered me enough to break my suspension of disbelief. Phasers don't have recoil."

And another,
"In the scene with the radiation door, I liked that they mirrored the similar scene in the earlier film. Yeah, Spock was a little melodramatic at the end, but that really matched the earlier film, too, so I'm ok with it."



In my opinion, the movie wasn't stupendous great. The Big Bad was waaay melodramatic. Marcus' accent was difficult to follow & odd that her dad was such a Yankie. But, overall, it was a fun film with enough connections to the original series that I felt like it was an authentic Star Trek movie, unlike certain other sci-fi prequel/reboots I could mention (*cough*cough*STARWARS!*cough*cough*)

Ok, so, what say you?
So, this is this year's ASM for Bob, then? Another oppurtunity for him to decide on the quality of a film before actually seeing it?

OT: I liked it a lot. Didn't love it; it certainly had a fair few flaws but Cumberbatch was fantastic as Khan.
 

oRevanchisto

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Mar 23, 2012
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HUGE MOTHER FUCKING SPOILERS!!!!!

Unlike MovieBob, I thought the movie was enjoyable and if you're not a Trekkie then you'll probably like it even more. That being said....

WTF! KHHHAAAANNNNN!!!!! So the rumors are true they literally tried to remake The Wrath of Khan, problem is Abrams has about the wit of a chimpanzee and just totally does not understand what that film or Star Trek is about. Khan's character is just thrown in as this huge fan reference but he doesnt have any real meaning behind his character and falls on the backburner for half the film so Peter Weller can do his predictable twist only for him to show back up to fill the remaining villain seat for the rest of the movie. Leaving aside some pretty massive plot holes (I'll mention some later) the major problem with the movie is that it means absolutely nothing, it just carefully exploits the major scenes Trekkies love from Khan and ST in general without any real meaning behind them. Sure lets just name drop Section 31, throw in Khan, rip off the ending of Wrath but flip the characters, oh and look a Tribble, but what does it all mean in the end?

The Wrath of Khan had very clear themes from start to finish, the movie was about Kirk getting old, about life and death, and most importantly Jim Kirk finally experiencing loss. Throughout the original series and original movies Kirk never experiences loss, he's cocky, headstrong, and yet always manages to eek out a victory by the skin of his teeth with everyone getting out alive. In Wrath, for the first time he has to experience the loss and the death of a close friend and despite all his cunning and guise he cannot overcome this in the end. Into Darkness at first looks as though this is the theme it is going for and flat out tells the audience this in the beginning of the movie, but half way through this theme is lost and we simply experience a movie full of exciting action pieces and a Vulcan fighting a genetically modified human, SO COOL...Even for the popcorn eating masses this is just way too dumb of a movie.

It's like Abrams is scared if they stop shoving explosions, lens flare in your face, and comedic lines in your face the audience will get bored. I honestly do not believe there is a single scene in the movie longer than a minute where there is none of those three things going on. Comparing this movie to TDK is insulting because at no point in that movie does Nolan treat the audience as idiots, something Abrams repeatedly does in his.

Now let me talk about the ending which just had me super disappointed. So Abrams has the balls to rip off the exact ending of Wrath but flip the characters. Now let me say this, I believe the end of Wrath to be one of the greatest endings to a movie and the way it is shot is beautifully done and leaves a major emotional impact. In this movie the scene comes off as nothing more than a cheap imitation without any beauty, meaning, or purpose behind it. In Wrath you have this perfect scene where Kirk believes he's won yet again and defeated Khan only to be told that Spock has been hurt, so he races down to Engineering all the while the camera repeatedly cuts to shots of the Genesis planet being created from the machine, thus we get this beautiful contrast between the beginning of life and the death of another. Then we get the big emotional scene between Kirk and Spock where Kirk has to deal with the loss of his best friend and understand that "the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few or the needs of the one." Something Spock had been trying to tell Jim from the beginning of the movie. In the end Kirk grows as a character, he becomes more humble, he finally faces loss and death, and this experience leaves him feeling "younger." And again the shot of Spock's coffin surrounded by all the life of the Genesis planet is just beautiful.

NOW lets talk about Into Darkness's rip off which has no meaning behind it than basically a "wouldn't it be cool if we had the same scene but reversed the roles." Spock learns nothing from this scene, neither does Kirk and all the while I knew that Kirk wasn't going to die since Abrams basically shouted to the audience a bit earlier that Khan's blood has magic regenerative powers and of course we all know there is going to be a sequel. So Kirk and Spock win again through blind luck, neither character has learned anything they haven't already learned and things go on again like normal.

I just don't get the inclusion of Khan, the only people that would care about him is Trekkie's and considering that they've nearly butchered his character it could only serve to upset them. The general audience has no idea who Khan, they don't know about the Eugenics wars, Khan's role during that period, or what being a genetically modified human really is. And none of this is explained to the general audience, only near the very end do they mention to the audience that Khan's purpose beforehand was to wipe out all genetically inferior humans. Why didnt they just leave him as James Cunningham or whatever? Why the need to call back to one of the greatest villains of ST and then yet not even have the movie focus on him?

Now for some irritating plot holes and things I find annoying:

-Terrorism on Earth is no Big Thing; So like the major thing in ST is that Earth is a utopia, there is no crime, no murder, and certainly no acts of terrorism. So why is it when this super massive attack occurs on Earth that has killed hundreds everyone just acts like this is not a major deal and something that happens all the time in this world. Again Abrams and the crew show there lack of knowledge of ST.

-Section 31 Name Drop; So another little fan reference they throw in is a mention of Section 31, perhaps one of my favorite ST inventions. Thing is Kirk, Spock, and the crew's reaction to this is again very dumb. Remember StarFleet is a peaceful force of exploration and gaining scientific knowledge, the revelation that there is a covert military force within StarFleet would be quite dramatic and anyone responsible for it would be quickly fired. Yet here it seems like Section 31 is an official part of the Federation, albeit a secret one, when we know from DS9 it is not.

-Earth Has No Protection; This was a complaint in the first movie and now it's just really dumb in this movie, Earth, the home of the Federation, has no defensive force. The Enterprise and the other ship duke it out near the moon, in the fucking Sol System and there isnt a single other Federation vessel in the area? I remind you this is after the first movie where a Vulcan ship managed to fly to Earth unopposed so I would expect they would beef up security around Earth.

-Crashing Starships; Seeing how space travel is pretty common and thus crashes are likely I find it odd Earth has no sort of force that would be able to stop such crashes from occurring or at least minimize the damage. You know like some radar system that would alert them to an incoming vessel headed towards Earth, and maybe they could then either send out a force to try and stabilize it and at worse obliterate it to prevent it from causing more damage, most especially outside the HQ of Starfleet.

-Why is Khan Superman? Yes he is genetically modified and I enjoyed his combat skills but how in the fuck does he manage to take several stun shots at maximum level? He's still a human and one stun shot can literally take down just about anything at a high level. And it was simply trying to placate fans by having him resist Spock's Vulcan touch.

-Why did Khan attack San Fran? I didnt get this part at all, at the very end Khan pilots his ship to San Fran to destroy StarFleet HQ but why? He didnt even destroy StarFleet HQ but crashed it in the middle of San Fran and just started running. Where is he running to? To attack StarFleet alone? To escape? If he wanted to escape why not crash in some remote area or near a ship port and steal a ship? The movie just makes it looks like he has some plan he's going to execute that has to be stopped and yet he doesnt.

I could go on but I'll stop, again despite my complaining I was entertained but since this is Star Trek I expect my brain to be challenged a bit not completely shut off when I watch it.