Poll: Suicide - Your opinion

[bluepilot]

Suicide can be for many reasons.

Surelu such a serious act deserves jugdement on a case by case basis? The people who commit suicide deserve more than to be lumped together and judge as one. There are degrees of murder and therefore I think there can be degrees of suicide too.

 

[MaskedMori]

Suicide is an act of cowardice and selfishness. There is no excuse for it, there is nothing that may justify it. Only those who choose to run away or give up would end their lives. There is nothing noble or rightesous about it.
Thos who would consider suicide should remind themself that there are alwasy a choice, and that thet should choose to find and solve the despair that leads them.

This would be true, if life had any purpose or meaning. People's life are their own and they have a right to end it if they wish, as long as it stays within his life and his alone. Killing your family then yourself is selfish, unless they are willing... Which would probably never happen.

A lack of meaning dosen't justify suicide. It's a personal moral failure. you say that people have the right to end their own life, but I think you are as wrong as it is possible to get. Ones life is never simply ones own. if it where you would first have to live completley removed from all other living beings until all that has ever had a bond to you is no more, and even than it would be a failure towards your duty as a living being!

Duty? There are no duties to living. There are duties to survival if that is what you're talking about. A person's death is always going to affect sombody else, I believe that anyone who wants to die should keep that to a minimum. (Which is entirely possible) I never said every bond, a person can have millions of those, I mean the ones that substantially affect sombody else's life. I.e. If you have a child, reconsider or find a suitable couple for adoption. Everyone owns their life, (Disreguard actual slaves to which there are few) if sombody wants to end it, it's their choice.

 

[MaskedMori]

I don't know how much religion comes into it, but being an Atheist means I'm terrified of dying and becoming part of the void we all came out of (it creeps me out when I try to imagine the fact that once I wasn't born). Suicide therefore is something I would only even consider if I was going to die anyway, and only after hours of horrific torture or something to that effect.

There is always a possibility that death isn't a void. Of course, I choose to live because there is a high chance that it is, but I try to be optimistic about that sort of thing so (Optemistic about dying... One would call that Irony.) that I can enjoy the time I have til' I have to take the gamble.

 

[dark-amon]

A lack of meaning dosen't justify suicide. It's a personal moral failure. you say that people have the right to end their own life, but I think you are as wrong as it is possible to get. Ones life is never simply ones own. if it where you would first have to live completley removed from all other living beings until all that has ever had a bond to you is no more, and even than it would be a failure towards your duty as a living being!

And what, pray tell, is my "duty" as a living being?[/quote]

Better than giving you an answer I sugest you begin reading philosophy.

 

[dark-amon]

Suicide is an act of cowardice and selfishness. There is no excuse for it, there is nothing that may justify it. Only those who choose to run away or give up would end their lives. There is nothing noble or rightesous about it.
Thos who would consider suicide should remind themself that there are alwasy a choice, and that thet should choose to find and solve the despair that leads them.

This would be true, if life had any purpose or meaning. People's life are their own and they have a right to end it if they wish, as long as it stays within his life and his alone. Killing your family then yourself is selfish, unless they are willing... Which would probably never happen.

A lack of meaning dosen't justify suicide. It's a personal moral failure. you say that people have the right to end their own life, but I think you are as wrong as it is possible to get. Ones life is never simply ones own. if it where you would first have to live completley removed from all other living beings until all that has ever had a bond to you is no more, and even than it would be a failure towards your duty as a living being!

Duty? There are no duties to living. There are duties to survival if that is what you're talking about. A person's death is always going to affect sombody else, I believe that anyone who wants to die should keep that to a minimum. (Which is entirely possible) I never said every bond, a person can have millions of those, I mean the ones that substantially affect sombody else's life. I.e. If you have a child, reconsider or find a suitable couple for adoption. Everyone owns their life, (Disreguard actual slaves to which there are few) if sombody wants to end it, it's their choice.

You are a true relativist, (and when I say that it is in no way positive.) it dosen't seem like you have given a single thought to virtues, ethics, social collapse. Have you ever considered humans more than a meatbag with free will? Have you ever considered that there may exist objectiv truths that remain unafected and consistent even if people think differently. You have the most liberal view I have ever met in a person (again not compliment). If everyone where like you, human soceity would crash and we would be less than savages.

 

[Pifflestick]

Suicide happens when stress outweighs coping resources. It can happen to anyone.

 

[MaskedMori]

Suicide is an act of cowardice and selfishness. There is no excuse for it, there is nothing that may justify it. Only those who choose to run away or give up would end their lives. There is nothing noble or rightesous about it.
Thos who would consider suicide should remind themself that there are alwasy a choice, and that thet should choose to find and solve the despair that leads them.

This would be true, if life had any purpose or meaning. People's life are their own and they have a right to end it if they wish, as long as it stays within his life and his alone. Killing your family then yourself is selfish, unless they are willing... Which would probably never happen.

A lack of meaning dosen't justify suicide. It's a personal moral failure. you say that people have the right to end their own life, but I think you are as wrong as it is possible to get. Ones life is never simply ones own. if it where you would first have to live completley removed from all other living beings until all that has ever had a bond to you is no more, and even than it would be a failure towards your duty as a living being!

Duty? There are no duties to living. There are duties to survival if that is what you're talking about. A person's death is always going to affect sombody else, I believe that anyone who wants to die should keep that to a minimum. (Which is entirely possible) I never said every bond, a person can have millions of those, I mean the ones that substantially affect sombody else's life. I.e. If you have a child, reconsider or find a suitable couple for adoption. Everyone owns their life, (Disreguard actual slaves to which there are few) if sombody wants to end it, it's their choice.

You are a true relativist, (and when I say that it is in no way positive.) it dosen't seem like you have given a single thought to virtues, ethics, social collapse. Have you ever considered humans more than a meatbag with free will? Have you ever considered that there may exist objectiv truths that remain unafected and consistent even if people think differently. You have the most liberal view I have ever met in a person (again not compliment). If everyone where like you, human soceity would crash and we would be less than savages.

That's exactly what we are though, it doesn't sound appealing the way you put it, but it's the truth. Yes, I have considered that, life's objective is pleasure. Everything people do is for pleasure or the pleasure of others. People lose their will to live when there is no pleasure in life. People deserve to die if they are willing. If you want to have a war on philosophy, I'm open.

 

[SmartIdiot]

Cowards way out, inconsiderate to those who love you(and if you're so far up your own arse that you can't fucking see that then you don't deserve those people in the first place), you won't receive any attention until after you're dead and it's just such a negative, shitty way to go out.

The exceptions being for people who are so sick/in so much pain it is unbearable/are suffering so much it actually outweighs any quality of life they have left. In which case euthanasia/assisted suicide is a discussion point first, then a possible action second.

 

[Ultrajoe]

Cowards way out, inconsiderate to those who love you(and if you're so far up your own arse that you can't fucking see that then you don't deserve those people in the first place), you won't receive any attention until after you're dead and it's just such a negative, shitty way to go out.

As i've said, those in a state of extreme suicidal depression often think long and hard about what they are doing to their loved ones. Do you know why they still pull the trigger? Because to them, the answer is 'I am doing them harm by being alive'. No, it doesn't make sense, but the poor bastards aren't exactly thinking straight at this point. See the posts made on pages past by Mshcherbatskaya, they sum it up much better than I can.

The exceptions being for people who are so sick/in so much pain it is unbearable/are suffering so much it actually outweighs any quality of life they have left.

This, I think, sums up close to 100% of all suicides. Just because you can't see a wound doesn't mean pain can be unbearable.

And, to give more voice to an intelligent statement:

Suicide happens when stress outweighs coping resources. It can happen to anyone.

 

[dark-amon]

I realize this isn't your response specific to my question, but it answers it more than the one you actually gave me. Telling me to read philosophy doesn't tell me what YOU think, just what those philosophers think. I can't have a give and take with Socrates, so I was hoping for your personal viewpoint. On the philosopher subject though, couldn't I pick a nihilist like Neitsche (I probably butchered the spelling, sorry) and take MaskedMori's basic point of view? I see your point about holding society together, but I don't really agree. It is good to help your fellow man of course, but at the end of the day I'm willing to bet ninety percent of us would save ourselves rather than endure hardship for strangers. Obviously, if said person has kids it's a slightly different ball game. As for the objective truth of it being a DUTY to endure suffering for the good of others? I can't agree. And I think a decent number of people would disagree with you as well. A nice gesture, and one that has indeed helped make society what it is today but a duty? No. I'm afraid humans are nothing more than more advanced animals, with the same instincts towards self preservation above all else like a wolf or an antelope. I hope to hear a rebuttal-this kind of thing is why I like these forums!

You argue with the viewpoint that humans are advanced animals... but animals do not commit suicide. They abandon their old and weak yes, but not suicide (unless you think of those retarded rodents that would run of a cliff, but they do it out of stupidety).
Also you ask for my viewpoint. As a surviver from suicidal thoughts from age 12-15 I realised how wrong these thoughts are. I didn't find it in religion, I didn't find it in psycology. I found it in studying the philosophers, and that is why I told you to read philosophy rather than ask me.
And last but not least, you say that you think 90% of all humans would rather save themselves rather than others. For that I ask you: Is it not better to be suffering unjust, rather than commiting it?

 

[dark-amon]

That's exactly what we are though, it doesn't sound appealing the way you put it, but it's the truth. Yes, I have considered that, life's objective is pleasure. Everything people do is for pleasure or the pleasure of others. People lose their will to live when there is no pleasure in life. People deserve to die if they are willing. If you want to have a war on philosophy, I'm open.

First: If we are to continue this, let us cut all the quote-boxes. They're annoying.
Second:You don't explain what it is you think is the unappealing truth, do you think that all is relative? Or on the accusation that you are an liberalist?
Third: when I mentioned objective, I did not refer to any form of goal, rather in the term of an idea that is a truth, (these words do not refer to the terms in the english dictionary, rather philosophical terms.)and that truth remains untouched, and just as true no matter what someone belives that would defy this truth. An example in scientific terms would be: The world is round! (you could say it was flat or even square, but it would still be round.)
Fourth: How could it possibly be pleasure that is objective (this time the term of a goal) of life? Rather, wouldn't it be logical that a lives objective is what you make it?
Fifth: How can anyone deserve to die? Even if one wanted it? The term: 'deserves to die' is one of the cruelest that exists. If a human is ill and has lost hope that it can be healed, do you give up and kill that person or do you try to find a way to cure him/her all the same?
Finally: Any discusion about suicide or philosophy is welcome on my part, but I will not fight a war against you!

 

[dark-amon]

Suicide is the most selfish act a person can commit. They never think of the people around them, and are self centred pricks.

How dare people think of themselves about matters chiefly concerning themselves.

If the death is the end (by that I consider that there is no afterlife) then ones personal opinion on ones own death seems irrelevant compared to that of those he leaves behind.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Suicide is the most selfish act a person can commit. They never think of the people around them, and are self centred pricks.

How dare people think of themselves about matters chiefly concerning themselves.

If the death is the end (by that I consider that there is no afterlife) then ones personal opinion on ones own death seems irrelevant compared to that of those he leaves behind.

That's not the whole picture, though. The choice is between death and life, and a person's life is a matter that chiefly concerns himself.

 

[Spacelord]

None of the options in the poll reflect my opinion.