Poll: The clothes professional women wear on TV shows. Suitable for video games?

[AntiChri5]

Apropos clothes for female characters in general: FemShep's N7 dress has always bugged the hell out of me in ME3... Sod the kerfuffle over the ending, why the hell would FemShep need an N7 LBD? For spec-ops cocktail parties?

You mean the dress with the large cleavage (which, might I add, is only one of several casualwear options for FemShep)? That was introduced during a DLC mission in ME2 where Shepard does indeed have to infiltrate some crime boss's cocktail party (Kasumi Goto DLC), ManShep actually got some ridiculous looking suit out of it too. I guess Bioware still had those assets lying around and thought: Why the heck not?

The Little Black Dress from Kasumi's LM was actually alright. But i think the poster was talking about the one in ME3. If you haven't seen it, it is a silly recolour of Allers (that reporter with the terrible, terrible voice acting) outfit. It's this black and red skanky latex thing. Looks terrible.

 

[WindKnight]

Apropos clothes for female characters in general: FemShep's N7 dress has always bugged the hell out of me in ME3... Sod the kerfuffle over the ending, why the hell would FemShep need an N7 LBD? For spec-ops cocktail parties?

You mean the dress with the large cleavage (which, might I add, is only one of several casualwear options for FemShep)? That was introduced during a DLC mission in ME2 where Shepard does indeed have to infiltrate some crime boss's cocktail party (Kasumi Goto DLC), ManShep actually got some ridiculous looking suit out of it too. I guess Bioware still had those assets lying around and thought: Why the heck not?

The dress does give some hilarity during conversations in ME2 though if you keep it on whilst walking around the ship, as femshep keeps her standard body language and postures.

As to the topic... yeah, those would definitely work, and something we need to see more of. I think the problem with resistance against them is that the people talking in defence of the overwhelming amount of sexualised outfits see it as an all or nothing example, where agreeing more sensible outfits are needed will see all sexy outfits taken away from them, or else they feel like their being told their bad people for liking them (I'm considering doing a topic showing some stuff I consider problematic but I like as a way to say 'hey, its fine to like that stuff, just show some self awareness and empathy')

 

[Uhura]

The Little Black Dress from Kasumi's LM was actually alright. But i think the poster was talking about the one in ME3. If you haven't seen it, it is a silly recolour of Allers (that reporter with the terrible, terrible voice acting) outfit. It's this black and red skanky latex thing. Looks terrible.

Yeah, I actually wish they had kept the Kasumi dress as an option in ME3 instead of creating a new LBD. The Allers version just looks weird/bad in comparison.

Pics for those interested:
Kasumi DLC dress

Spoiler

Allers dress

Spoiler

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

(got double ninja'd)

I'm a Mass Effect fanboy, so yeah, I know where it came from. But the one in 3 has N7 on it for some wacky reason, and, as AntiChri5 pointed out, it's a different skin/texture and it looks--- well, bloody awful to put it mildly.

Well, I'd say Shepard's armor fits the bill. That's something a pro space soldier would probably wear. I'm not referring to any elaborate outfits. Just basic stuff a person in a certain profession would wear. A warrior would have an armor, a cop would have an uniform etc. (And they probably wouldn't wear the smutty Halloween versions of said outfits).

Smutty Halloween versions definitely have their place, though. Okay, that place is the Matrix-Steelport from SRIV, but still...

And yeah, Shep's armour is okay, but - slight tangent ahoy - I think it's always looked a bit vague and all purpose. Going into spec-fic mode: I think it'd be an impossible challenge to design a suit capable of all the hazards and environmental conditions Shep faces, as well as function as effective and efficient combat armour.

 

[Uhura]

As to the topic... yeah, those would definitely work, and something we need to see more of. I think the problem with resistance against them is that the people talking in defence of the overwhelming amount of sexualised outfits see it as an all or nothing example, where agreeing more sensible outfits are needed will see all sexy outfits taken away from them, or else they feel like their being told their bad people for liking them

Yeah, that's why I think a thread that starts from a more positive place might not attract as much defensiveness. Instead of talking about what needs to go, lets talk about what works and what we want to see more.

I'm considering doing a topic showing some stuff I consider problematic but I like as a way to say 'hey, its fine to like that stuff, just show some self awareness and empathy')

This type of thread would be interesting if it managed to stay on topic. It's a shame that these discussions turn into mudslinging contests so quickly.

Smutty Halloween versions definitely have their place, though. Okay, that place is the Matrix-Steelport from SRIV, but still...

Yeah, I'm not totally against that stuff either. I would personally just like to see more kick-ass pro outfits.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

In general, though I think it's fair to say videogames aren't the best medium to reflect what's 'normal' at all. With the heavy focus on genre, there tends to be an idealisation (and overall warping) of imagery, especially where female characters are concerned, but also for males.

Would you say Skyrim's a decent example of functional apparel? Bethesda did seem to fundamentally ignore the whole chainmail bikini trope, and most of it seems appropriate to the kinds of antics any character gets up to. And where flesh is flashed (e.g. the Forsworn in particular) it fits the lore and the culture, mostly.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

That looks good to me.
If people want more boobs in their games, they can mod it in.

 

[ForumSafari]

The examples relate mostly to games that are set in modern times, but you can apply the basic idea (professional looking) also to more fantastical settings.

To be honest that's actually more professional than what a lot of the women I've worked with think professional clothes look like. If we're comparing game clothing to reality then a lot of it isn't really that bad, in fact a lot of it is a slightly different cut of something people really wear.

 

[Terminal Blue]

One issue I can see is that those are all police dramas.

The "police drama" look is actually quite distinct. In reality, you almost never see professional women in leather, suede or some synthetic variant thereof, for example. It's quite an extreme look for work, but in police drama language it signifies that a character means business and is ready to get stuck in with the boys. In that regard, it's kind of a cliché in itself.

As others have said though, it beats boob window. It beats boob window hands down!

 

[Techno Squidgy]

And yeah, Shep's armour is okay, but - slight tangent ahoy - I think it's always looked a bit vague and all purpose. Going into spec-fic mode: I think it'd be an impossible challenge to design a suit capable of all the hazards and environmental conditions Shep faces, as well as function as effective and efficient combat armour.

In this fictional universe exists a substance that is capable of lowering or increasing the mass of objects around it. Said substance can reduce the mass or a starship (and/or the surrounding space, I forget) to propel said starship beyond the speed of light. And you're questioning their capability to produce effective multi-purpose armour?

Suspension of disbelief is a funny thing, isn't it?

OT:
To be honest, I'd just like to see characters dressed in a way that makes some god damn sense. Boob windows in armour? NO. Ridiculously elaborate and thoroughly impractical battle attire? NO. Sexy scientist wearing a labcoat, with cleavage that could rival the Marianas trench? GOD NO, DO YOU KNOW NOTHING OF LAB SAFETY?! YOU DO NOT WANT CORROSIVE SUBSTANCES ON YOUR TITTIES.

Dear character designers, please think with your big head, not the little one.

 

[ThatDarnCoyote]

Kate Beckett seems a bit fashion-forward for a police detective (even in New York).

Form-fitting jackets and untucked shirts - where the hell does she keep her gun?

 

[mecegirl]

OT:
To be honest, I'd just like to see characters dressed in a way that makes some god damn sense. Boob windows in armour? NO. Ridiculously elaborate and thoroughly impractical battle attire? NO. Sexy scientist wearing a labcoat, with cleavage that could rival the Marianas trench? GOD NO, DO YOU KNOW NOTHING OF LAB SAFETY?! YOU DO NOT WANT CORROSIVE SUBSTANCES ON YOUR TITTIES.

Dear character designers, please think with your big head, not the little one.

The bolded part reminded me of a little history fact.

Dr. Mary Walker was a doctor during the U.S. Civil war (she was on the Union side) and she dressed as a man for most of her time practicing medicine because she found that corsets, petticoats and the like hindered her movements and were unsanitary. Especially the petticoats and huge skirts that women wore back then. Just imagine being an army doctor and all of the gunk that could get on your clothes. Blood, mucus, maybe even urine, combined with dirt and mud from the outside.

Spoiler

 

[balladbird]

For contemporary times, that's perfectly fine and would be my preference. Different settings would of course require different choice of attire, but I will note that futuristic interpretations often turn out to be pretty funny...when the future arrives. I'll quote Douglas Adams on this one:

"Zeerust: the particular kind of datedness which afflicts things that were originally designed to look futuristic."

Like, I don't know, how a few decades ago, according to fiction in the 90s, people would wear pocketless silvery form-fitting clothing all over the place and stuff.

Like this is supposed to be commonplace in 1997:

It's zeerust, sure, but I can't be the only one who's impressed that the writers of Lost In Space were apparently able to predict the "duck face" phenomenon a half century in advance. XD

 

[Hagi]

Well...

I hope to never see them in my games, because sci-fi and fantasy are obviously much superior to contemporary settings and nobody wears jeans there.

That said I do prefer outfits to be consistent, if most women are wearing what amounts to a fetish outfit then most men better be wearing black leather man-thongs. Nothing is sillier than seeing what's supposed to be a uniformed force with half it's members mysteriously missing around two-thirds of their outfits.

 

[tangoprime]

One of my GTA Online characters is female, and I've made a point to dress her like this, mostly business formal, at least business casual. Lots of pants suits and blazers. Same thing with my male characters though, if it doesn't look tailored, it doesn't get worn.

Same thing with my Saints Row female characters, especially 4- loved the charcoal wool coat over dark blue business shirt outfit.

 

[DrOswald]

Yes? I mean, its already been done with characters like Elena and Alyx Vance. Samus's civilian clothes (in other M) are pretty normal clothes, but I don't know if we can say that one worked out.

So of course it can work, it has worked in the past. As for making that the standard? Not likely. Rule number 1 of character design in a narrative light work (and most games are narrative light) is to make your character visually distinctive. That means unusual and extravagant clothing usually. Men wear normal clothing more often in games, but that is because men who wear extravagant clothing are generally looked down on in our society. Character designers have to find other ways of making their male characters distinctive.

I don't see why it would be bad for female characters to wear those sort of clothes in video games, but 95% of the time it doesn't fit.

I would definitely like to see more women in games dressed like that first shot of Kate. That outfit is hot.

 

[Smeatza]

Yeah, some women already wear professional outfits in video games. The reason why I made the thread was that some recurring comments in gender/sexism related threads gave me the impression that there is some kind of resistance to this type of character design in games (the whole "too bad, sex sells/ do you want to dress her in a burqua?/ do female characters have to be ugly & obese to stop the gender wars??" commentary).

Ahhh I see.
Well I imagine there probably is a minority who are resistant to such character designs entirely.
But I think most people who say such things are probably just being a bit reactionary and taking things to the worst possible conclusion, there's a lot of reasons why such miscommunications happen.
The other side has a tendency to pick on and tear into individual examples as if they are the problem, rather than making them part of the larger discussion.
People think that more of one thing (in this case modest dress) means less of another (in this case sexy dress), which it doesn't.
People ask for "more" of one thing (in this case modest dress) without ever quantifying it. How much of it is there right now? How much more do we want? When it's undefined it's open to sensationalist interpretation.

I (like many people) can't even be sure how pronounced this sexualisation trend is. I haven't even decided at what point I think a trend does become problematic.
What I am confident of though, is that most people who take issue with the suggested changes to the industry, don't fear them any more than they do change in general.

I mean, surely the easiest way to solve some of the ongoing drama would be giving female characters more realistic/professional clothing? Most of my examples relate to modern settings but you can easily take the basic concept (professional looking) and apply it to more fantastical settings.

Is there a shortage of games with realistic/professional clothing? Even in fantastical settings? I suppose it doesn't matter really, no harm to anybody in asking for more.
But whether the publishers do it or not probably depends on if there's a shortage.

To me it just feels like this idea somehow drowns out in the ongoing discussions. There is a lot of "well women like to wear sexy clothes and that makes them feel empowered" and very little "well women like to wear professional clothing and that makes them feel empowered".

That's why it's about more choice. It's not about needing more of this and less of that, the same amount of the other thing and whatever.
It's about having more of everything, some probably to a higher degree than others.

(Damn, I feel like I butchered my OP. Never post threads on a whim in the middle of the night! Sorry for any confusion.)[/quote]

 

[VVThoughtBox]

No. Not every female character is going to be a cop, a doctor, or some sort of professional lawyer. The clothing of females should be very diverse, not limited to the same three stlyes.

 

[Azure23]

Yes? I mean, its already been done with characters like Elena and Alyx Vance. Samus's civilian clothes (in other M) are pretty normal clothes, but I don't know if we can say that one worked out.

So of course it can work, it has worked in the past. As for making that the standard? Not likely. Rule number 1 of character design in a narrative light work (and most games are narrative light) is to make your character visually distinctive. That means unusual and extravagant clothing usually. Men wear normal clothing more often in games, but that is because men who wear extravagant clothing are generally looked down on in our society. Character designers have to find other ways of making their male characters distinctive.

I don't see why it would be bad for female characters to wear those sort of clothes in video games, but 95% of the time it doesn't fit.

I would definitely like to see more women in games dressed like that first shot of Kate. That outfit is hot.

I lol'd at this, because while I did appreciate that Samus' military uniform just looked normal though tailored for a woman (the US military has a real problem with this) it's totally balanced out by the form fitting nip-tastic, high-heeled zero suit.

Also I totally agree, that shot of Kate is way hot.