Poll: The difference: Hacking/Glitching

[My name is Fiction]

[sub]Well I don't make many topic even though I have many opinions, I think this is my first one while "Gone Gonzo!"
*Flails hands wildly*
But Now I'm missing the whole point of this.[/sub]

I was playing Black Ops zombies on Ascension, I decided I wanted to die quickly and enter a random game.
Instead I was stuck with people the could glitch.
Now I don't glitch at all, not out of principle of "Its no fun if its not fair" Or anything like that its just most of the time it gets patched.
So we all die eventually because the one out of two people that could glitch was incompetent but it was interesting enough that I told my friend in my Xbox Party.
Now some people in there said glitching was the same as hacking.
Now this is my opinion on it.
Now they both have very different definitions.
When you glitch you doing something the designers overlooked, exploiting the system.
I find it fun because a game thats poured with lots of money can have a flaw that can fundamentally cripple it. Its fun "sticking" it to the man I guess.

Now Hacking is a diffident beast all together.
[sub]A hungry beast ROAR!!![/sub]
When you hack your adding foreign data or removing data from a system.
Its made to work, not some cosmic accident with code.

You get banned from online for hacking NOT glitching.

Well now I have an informative rant under my belt of topics now, Great.

So what are your thoughts on it?

 

[Zhukov]

They are different, sure.

They're both equally obnoxious though.

 

[Imper1um]

I agree that "Glitching" and "Hacking" is two different beasts altogether. Glitching is *actually* called exploiting. You are exploiting a bug that the developers overlooked, such as exiting a level's geometry by using the jumping mechanics on a specific point.

However, hacking is more of you:
- Reporting to your own client that you have 100% life all of the time
- Reporting to all other clients your wrong position so that you appear in a different place every time.
- Reporting a "reload complete" event as soon as a "reload start" event happens to your client.

It's a different structure altogether. Both are annoying, but one requires external hardware/software.

 

[Bags159]

If you intentionally exploit a (game breaking) glitch repeatedly then you are no different than a script kiddie. Either way you're doing something to give yourself an unfair advantage. Can't believe I'm the only person who believes exploiting a glitch is cheating...

And yes, you do get banned / punished for repeatedly exploiting in most games.

 

[Scabadus]

They're similar, but definatly different, and whether it's acceptable or not depends entirely on the cirumstances. Using either hacks or glitches in an online Vs game like CoD or Halo really shouldn't be allowed, you gain an unfair advantage over other people. On the other hand, when playing with friends it can be great fun if your rocket launchers all have infinate ammo and bottomless clips. I think the great rule of 'don't be an ass' can be applied to hacking and glitching; they can both be fun, and they can both get you (deservingly) banned.

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

They're similar, but both should result in bans.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

They're different processes, but can lead to the same things. However, I see a difference between a glitch and an unintended feature. For example, TF2 has had glitches in the past that allow engineers to instantly put up buildings. This is the bad kind of glitch, which completely unbalances one portion of the game. It was also patched pretty quickly. On the other hand, bunny hopping was originally an unintended consequence of the way the physics worked on the original Quake. Rather than patching it out, Id software treated it as a feature of the game, and it was kept as a standard feature for pretty much every FPS released during the arena shooter era. I know this sounds like I'm advocating a gray area here, but it's really a blatant difference; it's just one that's hard to describe.

TL;DR: Glitching and hacking are two different actions that ultimately lead to the same problems. However, there is a difference between a glitch, like the various exploits that allow people to walk outside of maps, and an unintended feature, like bunny hopping in Quake. It's difficult to describe, but the difference is pretty obvious within the actual game.

 

[FalloutJack]

Of course they're different. Hacking is on purpose, many times malicious. Glitching is down entirely to how competent the makers of the game were. To wit, if a game was without glitches, you couldn't glitch in a game to begin with. Ergo, it's just a funny little thing in life.

 

[Bags159]

If you intentionally exploit a glitch repeatedly then you are no different than a script kiddie. Either way you're doing something to give yourself an unfair advantage.

Ah, the eternal battlecry of the nub: they are doing something that beats me, therefore ban them!

Fun fact: every single one of the world's top Starcraft players, and even high-ranked amateurs, uses glitches. (Bunch of script kiddies amirite?) This makes the game better.

Game-breaking glitches need to be patched or banned by explicit rules. Ultimately, what needs to be banned to improve the game is a question for experts to solve and prove. Opinions from whiny nubs count as exactly nothing.

I meant game-breaking glitch. No need to be an arsehole about it. There's a big difference between using a glitch to reload a split second faster and finding a hole in the world and shooting at people with impunity.

IE: In Planetside you can place a teleporter inside of a box where it cannot be killed, but you can still pass through it. That really makes the game better, doesn't it? Tell me with a straight face abusing glitches like that isn't cheating.

 

[My name is Fiction]

If you intentionally exploit a glitch repeatedly then you are no different than a script kiddie. Either way you're doing something to give yourself an unfair advantage.

Ah, the eternal battlecry of the nub: they are doing something that beats me, therefore ban them!

Fun fact: every single one of the world's top Starcraft players, and even high-ranked amateurs, uses glitches. (Bunch of script kiddies amirite?) This makes the game better.

Game-breaking glitches need to be patched or banned by explicit rules. Ultimately, what needs to be banned to improve the game is a question for experts to solve and prove. Opinions from whiny nubs count as exactly nothing.

YAY someone who didn't criticize me for my possible use of glitches in the future.
*Hug*

 

[My name is Fiction]

If you intentionally exploit a glitch repeatedly then you are no different than a script kiddie. Either way you're doing something to give yourself an unfair advantage.

Ah, the eternal battlecry of the nub: they are doing something that beats me, therefore ban them!

Fun fact: every single one of the world's top Starcraft players, and even high-ranked amateurs, uses glitches. (Bunch of script kiddies amirite?) This makes the game better.

Game-breaking glitches need to be patched or banned by explicit rules. Ultimately, what needs to be banned to improve the game is a question for experts to solve and prove. Opinions from whiny nubs count as exactly nothing.

I meant game-breaking glitch. No need to be an arsehole about it. There's a big difference between using a glitch to reload a split second faster and finding a hole in the world and shooting at people with impunity.

IE: In Planetside you can place a teleporter inside of a box where it cannot be killed, but you can still pass through it. That really makes the game better, doesn't it? Tell me with a straight face abusing glitches like that isn't cheating.

I'm playing against AI zombies, in its nature I will lose no matter what.
The only way you really lose is if your not having fun.
I'm not going for round 99, hell I haven't used a glitch yet in Black Ops!
Its fun breaking the 4-wall of so called Immersion
[sub] especially when I die from a small corner behind me stopping me from running away [/sub]
*Says with straight face*
I'm not cheating

 

[pletschee]

Eh, I'll be honest, I head glitch in my games of CoD when me and my team are locking down a spawn trap. Is it fair no, but should I be banned, no. But yes two different beasts all together.

 

[G-Force]

If you intentionally exploit a (game breaking) glitch repeatedly then you are no different than a script kiddie. Either way you're doing something to give yourself an unfair advantage.

They're similar, but both should result in bans.

Yea I know I am not suppose to take advantage of this glitch over here, but the devs should never have allowed it to stay in the game in the first place so its all their fault anyways, lol!"

Pathetic.

I love how people saying glitches are unfair even though everyone who plays the game has access to them. If everyone has access to something then that means it is fair on account that all players have the opportunity to use glitches. Now when it comes to game breaking glitches that end play, yes those SHOULD be banned. However many times the use of glitches ELEVATES the metagame and makes the game more competitive.

David Sirlin is a game designer who works at capcom who wrote a book called "Playing to Win" which addresses issues like these. Here's an excerpt on his chapter about glitches and banned tactics.

------------

In the fighting game Street Fighter Alpha 2, there is a bug that allows the player to activate a very damaging move (called ?Custom Combo?) against an opponent who is standing up (not crouching). The designers surely intended a standing opponent to be able to crouch and block this move upon seeing it, but if executed correctly, he cannot. It has a huge impact on the way the game is played (standing up is now quite dangerous), but there is still an excellent game left even after this technique is known. At first glance, one might think that attacking is too dangerous because it usually involves standing up. Closer examination shows that the attacker can stick out moves to knock the defender out of his Custom Combo, should he try it. Basically, the bug can be dealt with. This game-changing tactic is referred to by players as the ?Valle CC? after its inventor, Alex Valle (more on him later).

As another example, consider the puzzle game Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo. It?s vaguely like Tetris. In this game, blocks of various colors fall into your basin and you try to match up the colors to break these blocks to fill up your opponent?s basin. If you fill up his basin to the top, you win.

Puzzle Fighter has a game-altering bug. A feature called the diamond lets the player break all blocks of a certain color on his own side (even if they aren?t lined up) and send blocks to the opponent?s side. Usually, doing this means sending much, much fewer blocks than if the player had broken all the blocks of that color manually. It?s a tradeoff since the diamond allows the player to break all those blocks instantly, but at the price of a smaller attack. There is a bug, though, called the ?diamond trick? that allows the player to send even more blocks with the diamond than he would have sent breaking all his blocks of that color manually. The diamond goes from ?get me out of trouble? to being a serious, game-ending thwomp. It?s nearly impossible to defeat a player who uses the diamond trick without using it yourself.

Amongst players who all know this trick, there is still a good game. One player can use his diamond trick to cancel out the other player?s. Each player gets diamond every twenty-fifth piece, so you can count on the other player getting his diamond about the same time you get yours. You can also just break a lot of blocks right when the opponent does his diamond trick. This will allow you to cancel some of the incoming block, but still give you a pretty full basin. A peculiarity of Puzzle Fighter is that when your basin is nearly full, you then have a lot of ammunition to send back to the opponent. A clever player can turn the other player?s huge diamond trick into a stockpile of ammunition to fire back for the win. In the end, the trick merely changes the game and does not destroy it, and is certainly not worthy of banning.

How does one know if a bug destroys the game or even if a legitimate tactic destroys it? The rule of thumb is to assume it doesn?t and keep playing, because 99% of the time, as good as the tactic may be, there will either be a way to counter it or other even better tactics. Prematurely banning something is the scrub?s way. It prevents the scrub from ever discovering the counter to the Valle CC or the diamond trick. It also creates artificial rules that alter the game, when it?s entirely possible that the game was just fine the way it was. It also usually leads to an avalanche of bans in order to be consistent with the first. When players think they have found a game-breaking tactic, I advise them to go win some tournaments with it. If they can prove that the game really is reduced to just that tactic, then perhaps a ban is warranted. It?s extremely rare that a player is ever able to prove this though. In fact, I don?t even have any examples of it.

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The only thing that's pathetic are the people instantly crying fowl when players use legitimate glitches instead of simply thinking of a good counter strategy and bettering themselves as players.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

They are different, sure.

They're both equally obnoxious though.

basically this, they both should not be allowed for online play, and equally can ruin games that way.

 

[Mute52]

They are similar in a sense, but some glitches don't deserve bans, or are made unknown to the player if they are intentional or will result in a ban. Hacking, however, should never be tolerated, if you're referring to the infinite ammo, infinite health, etc etc kind of hacking, which i assume you are. My xbox disconnected from live whilst playing Halo: Reach, which reset all my challenges but kept my credits, so it's unfair to get banned for something like that (which i did, my rank was reset).

 

[G-Force]

hey both should not be allowed for online play, and equally can ruin games that way.

Many instances glitches ENHANCE the gameplay experience and elevate it to new levels. See my post for examples of this occurring.

 

[glyphseeker]

They are different, sure.

They're both equally obnoxious though.

boom award this person /thread

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

hey both should not be allowed for online play, and equally can ruin games that way.

Many instances glitches ENHANCE the gameplay experience and elevate it to new levels. See my post for examples of this occurring.

many times sure, i can think back and agree on that, but alot of times they are just abused and abused, especially online, to the point that the game is no longer say "insert shooter here* online, it is instead "Shotgun/rocket flocketting/noobtube fest" online instead, now when it becomes obvious the glitch is bad and that people overly depend on it for everything, that's when i frown upon it and think it should be fixed/banned asap.

 

[Sarge034]

[quote="My name is Fiction" post="9.270566.10399725You get banned from online for hacking NOT glitching.[/quote]

You know they consider it the same thing right? This happend in COD WAW, true story. glitcher-"HA HA I GLITCHED UNDER THE MAP!!!!!" >undercover microsoft agent joins gameScore 0-0 dominationkills 127-36no score or stats recorded<

I think you all deserve a perma-ban if it affects other people not consenting to the glitch or haxs. If you want to glitch out and hax the hell out of a private match go for it. If you affect the leaderboard for zombies or do it at all in matchmaking your system should erupt into flames and the online backup of your profile should be deleted. PERMA-ban is PERMANINT. :? /