Poll: The Geth or the Quarians

[Doug]

Except that African people are undeniably living, breathing humans.

Don't really wanna get involved in your argument here, but just on this point: It was denied by Europeans who where profiting from the slave trade - they generally thought that 'negro's' where little more than shaved monkeys and couldn't look after themselves. Of course, they had a vested interest in that point of view, but it was a commonly ... not exactly held but known view at the time.

As for the Geth, I do see what you're saying with regards to them being not alive persay. Overall, though, I do side on the view that the Geth have sentient rights, but as I say, I'm not gonna get involved in the debate beyond this historical point here.

 

[SextusMaximus]

Geth in my Evil playthrough, Quarians in my good playthrough!

 

[N_of_the_dead]

If peace wasn't an option i would go Quarian though i figure that just becuase they can do things like feel pain, can geth feel pain?

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

Except that African people are undeniably living, breathing humans.

Don't really wanna get involved in your argument here, but just on this point: It was denied by Europeans who where profiting from the slave trade - they generally thought that 'negro's' where little more than shaved monkeys and couldn't look after themselves. Of course, they had a vested interest in that point of view, but it was a commonly ... not exactly held but known view at the time.

As for the Geth, I do see what you're saying with regards to them being not alive persay. Overall, though, I do side on the view that the Geth have sentient rights, but as I say, I'm not gonna get involved in the debate beyond this historical point here.

You're correct, but the important difference is that it was their belief that Africans weren't fully human. By now, we know better. In case of the Geth there's no belief involved. It's a fact that they're artificial constructs designed as tools and servants.

 

[MasterChief892039]

I think they could easily manufacture some kind of peace. However if I had to choose, I'd go with the Quarians. I know the Geth are being treated like crap, and I know they're technically sentient, but when it comes right down to it, they're just robots.

Here's a paraphrase of a fairly common quote in Germany circa 1940: "I know it's not right, but they're only Jews."

I would hope I don't need to expand further.

Okay, so it's not right for me to choose the genocide of the Geth over the Quarians. Does that mean it's okay for you to choose the genocide of the Quarians over the Geth? No. They're both valid factions who deserve the right to exist, but the point of this poll is to choose one or the other. I understand you have your reasons for picking the Geth over the Quarians, but don't act like I'm some Nazi Hitler just because I made the opposite choice. We're doing the exact same thing.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Quarians without a shadow of doubt, but you know that Bioware will offer you a 'save them both at ridiculous risk and with no reward for you' option, so really I'll pick that one.

If they did make me choose, I would come down on the side of the Quarians though. I think they've paid enough for their thousands of years exiled from home, losing their immune system etc. The Geth have no need of their planets that we've yet seen, they just stay there out of some sort of perverse grudge, which an emotionless machine really shouldn't have.

 

[PissOffRoth]

Quarian. Geth piss me off to no end. They are condescending, monotone, and generally confusing to talk to. Plus they are indecisive, causing me to have to decide the fate of their race. Bastards. I'm glad I killed them all off.

 

[scotth266]

I'm going to go with the Geth. They are still only waging a war for their survival: the fact that some of the Quarians only wish to exterminate them reinforces that point.

My bet is though that my Paragon Shep will be able to forge a truce between them, so that everyone goes happily back to the Quarian homeworld.

 

[Agayek]

Ok I will change my main point to "they are defective mining tools and even if you kill every last one you can still remake them because you have the blue prints"

This is true.

Unfortunately, even if you were to do so, you've already completely destroyed the species and created something entirely new. Even if you built new bodies, they'd be populated by completely different personalities.

What you're saying is the equivalent of "Lots of people have sex, so it's fine to kill people".

Okay, so it's not right for me to choose the genocide of the Geth over the Quarians. Does that mean it's okay for you to choose the genocide of the Quarians over the Geth? No. They're both valid factions who deserve the right to exist, but the point of this poll is to choose one or the other. I understand you have your reasons for picking the Geth over the Quarians, but don't act like I'm some Nazi Hitler just because I made the opposite choice. We're doing the exact same thing.

It's not. All I have said in this thread is that the Geth are morally in the right. I wouldn't side with anyone that wanted to exterminate either side.

I don't agree with your assessment that humans are 'constructed' in a way that is not significantly different from the way machines are constructed. Robots are just mechanical parts put together, while humans are born from genetic information, grow and evolve in a natural way. The human body doesn't construct babies like a factory constructs robots.

Whether or not the Geth have an analogy to human emotions is not really relevant, since it would just be a part of the original glitch in their design that gave them their advanced reasoning abilities.

About your side note, that's a bit of a gray area for sure (the legal ramifications alone wound be a nightmare, let alone the philosophical ones), but entirely irrelevant since the Geth were never alive to begin with.

Yes, humans are certainly grown in a natural process. However, they may as well be put together by a robot. It's a rigidly defined process that every human goes through, regardless of the differences in source material.

The only difference between natural growth and construction is the source material.

Also, by your logic, any artificially created human (like say, clones with altered DNA) are then inherently inferior. They're built, so by your logic they must not be human.

Except that African people are undeniably living, breathing humans. The Geth undeniably aren't. While the idea that they were made to serve was just a convenient excuse in the case of black slaves, it's a hard fact in the case of Geth drones.

And what is the point of ignoring the "Geth are robots" argument when that's at the very core of the discussion? That's like telling someone to argue that killing Jews is wrong without mentioning that Jews are human beings.

Because "because they're robots" is, by its very nature, invalid. The Geth exhibit all the symptoms of consciousness. They are self-aware, capable of a range of emotions, and very capable of independent thought. The "because they're robots" argument can just as accurately be restated as "they came from somewhere different from us, therefore they are inherently inferior".

We, as a people, have been over that belief thousands of times, and every time it's been proven false.

Now, for the record, I do think that a peaceful solution would be the best for everyone involved, for both moral and practical reasons. But that's not what the thread is asking. If I had to choose a side, I'd go with the ones that are actual living beings any day.

As Legion himself said, treating the Geth the same way you'd treat organics is a sign of racism and anthropomorphism.

I would agree insofar as peace would be the best option.

I wouldn't support the extermination of either. The only thing I've been trying to say is that the Geth were/are morally in the right.

 

[Vrex360]

I would rather peace. It's stupid to have a race have to be wiped out over something that happened two hundred years ago.
That said if I had to pick which side my sympathies lie it would have to be the Geth. It is not the Geth's fault that they reacted the way they did, they are a race made to manual labor that became self aware and decided that they didn't want to be slaves. Rather then negotiate peace or live comfortably alongside them, the Quarians freaked out and enacted a plan to destroy all Geth. Thus giving the Geth reason to consider the Quarians as 'threats' and try to defend themselves, as any thinking creature would.
The Quarians were driven from their homeworld and have since then occupied a lot of their time planning to come back and destroy the Geth, putting a lot of thought and planning into genocide and labeling the Geth as malevolent fiends rather than just a race that wanted to live.
And while the Quarians conspire and plan to enact cultural genocide of what now amounts to a whole people the Geth have just been trying to build and establish a society. They are distrustful of the Quarians but they have no desire to kill them all, they haven't sent fleets to finish off 'the remainder of the Quarian scum' and according to Legion they seem open to the idea of peace if they can be 100% sure that the Quarians will not just try and start a war as soon as they return.

I can sympathize with the crummy state that Quarians find themselves in with no home to go to and in exile but in truth they can't blame the Geth for responding with violence in the first place and it is not the Geth's fault that no other race decided to 'take them in' and shelter them on a home planet. So while I understand the desire to return home with a guarantee of survival and I can even understand bitter resentment of the Geth, when I hear Quarians saying that 'all Geth must die' and that the Geth were 'monsters who killed millions' then I will not hesitate to punch him, or her, in the face.
I sympathize with the Quarians problems but I'll be damned if I would let that justify their murderous obsession, or their experimentation on the Geth or how they respond to any individual Geth they see, no matter what the circumstances, with 'kill on sight' because the Geth don't respond that way to Quarians. At least not the main Geth population.

So honestly, that's why whenever I hear people call Ashley a 'crazy xenophobic space Nazi' and then go and praise Tali Zoah I'm-totally-pro-genocide-of-an-entire-people-based-on-an-event-that-happened-two-hundred-years-ago-of-which-I-can't-actually-blame-them-for Vas Normandy. Because I can't help but feel they are being ignorant.

Just to be clear I understand Quarian distrust of Geth, but their genocidal hate I don't sympathize with. So for my preference it's gotta be Geth.


That said I would much rather see the Quarians let bygones be bygones and just make peace with the Geth. I mean when I got Legion and Tali to settle their differences it was clear that it was possible for them both to work together comfortably. I would like to see that happen in Mass Effect 3. Like a Geth leader shaking hands with a Quarian general as a sign of new found peace.

 

[Lizardon]

I'd rather not have to choose. Both both races have my sympathy, I Legion and Tali are both fun and interesting characters.

If it came down to which one I'd want to me my ally against the Reapers, I'm going to have to choose the Geth. They have the numbers and the technology to be a huge factor in the outcome rather than the Quarians delapedated ships.

But peace will probably be an option in ME3. Tali and Legion made up (sort of) and one of the Quarian Generals expressed interest in peace.

 

[Jake the Snake]

The Geth, mostly because the Quarians really irritated me in ME2. Plus I've never liked Tali, I always thought she was a stupid character.

 

[cowboy44mag]

It has been awhile since I did a play through, and correct me if I'm wrong, but when talking to Legion he says something to the effect that the geth have maintained the quarian homeworld, and calls them the creators. I got the impression that the geth were waiting for the day that the quarians will accept them as equals, make peace, and return to the homeworld. The geth don't want to serve and they want to exist, but it seems that they long ago gave up their haterid of the quarians. If Shepard could convince the quarians to do the same (instead of trying to either kill them all or re-enslave them) it seems to me that peace would not be all that difficult. If the geth would have been truly militaristic they would have spread out from quarian space and faught all organic life they came into contact with. However they stopped once the quarians fled, and didn't try to follow them to finish them off. A few hundred years is more than long enough to forgive past feelings and form an alliance (just look at France and Great Brition- for hundreds of years they tried to destroy one another and now they are strong allies).

 

[Comma-Kazie]

The need for a "both" option is pressing on this pressing.

 

[Saulkar]

Cannot get any tail from a geth.

 

[Sulgoth]

I'd side with the Geth, because lets face it if you can't bang their females without infecting them with 200 different virus' whats the point in siding with the organics.