Poll: The Greatest Threat to Gaming
- Thread starter Crunchy English
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Sorry I brought up the MMO thing, that one is on me. Obviously the fact a particularly genre stands to make substantially larger returns than others, isn't necessarily going to have large companies throwing out more traditional style gaming, or turning gaming into one big "pay a dollar, swing a sword" event completely devoid of artistic vision.
I had a scary thought, I wrote it down, clearly it has been "busted" by the public at large.
Now this "industry from the inside" thing is pretty much what I was worried about and doesn't necessarily attack a particular genre, but I'm thinking DRM doesn't really effect console gaming... right?
I had a scary thought, I wrote it down, clearly it has been "busted" by the public at large.
Now this "industry from the inside" thing is pretty much what I was worried about and doesn't necessarily attack a particular genre, but I'm thinking DRM doesn't really effect console gaming... right?
Angry mothers shouldn't be buying rated games for thier spoilt kids anyway. Not my or the industries problem if they're too thick to relise this.Crunchy English post=9.73314.791854 said:
EA have been doing the same thing for as long as I can remember and it hasn't killed the games industry yet.
Fanboys can be ignored by closing your browser, muting your mic or with a swift blow to the jaw.
Problems sorted.
I voted EA, but not for the reason you listed; it was just the closest thing to what I see as the real problem, which is publishing concentration.
We have a gaming industry that is driven by the releases of super-mainstream, super-high-budget "blockbuster" games. However, few video games actually turn a profit for their publishers. As the smaller, more game-centered publishers get absorbed by the massive, profit-centered publishers, we end up with an industry that is afraid to innovate. Once in a very rare while, you will get something new and innovative; if it's successful, you will see carbon copies of it for the next several years.
Journalists and mothers are never going to censor games; there's too much money in them. This sort of fear of innovation is what is going to stop new games from being worth playing at all; I would argue that it's already the case, as I haven't purchased a new game since the Orange Box, and frankly I can't name a single game whose release I'm excited for, except for maybe Fallout 3, which I know full well won't run on my computer.
We have a gaming industry that is driven by the releases of super-mainstream, super-high-budget "blockbuster" games. However, few video games actually turn a profit for their publishers. As the smaller, more game-centered publishers get absorbed by the massive, profit-centered publishers, we end up with an industry that is afraid to innovate. Once in a very rare while, you will get something new and innovative; if it's successful, you will see carbon copies of it for the next several years.
Journalists and mothers are never going to censor games; there's too much money in them. This sort of fear of innovation is what is going to stop new games from being worth playing at all; I would argue that it's already the case, as I haven't purchased a new game since the Orange Box, and frankly I can't name a single game whose release I'm excited for, except for maybe Fallout 3, which I know full well won't run on my computer.
So a lack of innovation gets added to the board. That seems like something we should be able to fight though, doesn't it? We're the ones buying games, and it seems like most gamers really like recommending or suggesting our favourite indy titles. And XBLA and PSN launch kinda crazy independent games like Braid or Puzzle Quest. Didn't Puzzle Quest do like, amazing?
I mean, if we're hungry for something new and innovative, a company that likes money would probably take the occasional low-budget risk wouldn't they?
I mean, if we're hungry for something new and innovative, a company that likes money would probably take the occasional low-budget risk wouldn't they?
Either EA or the Unfair Censorship that games get.
I'm gonna go with censorship. It's the bane of media and video games get the worst of it.
I'm gonna go with censorship. It's the bane of media and video games get the worst of it.
Media is the worst. They make up completel lies about games to make them look bad, make them sound as horrible as they can, and jump at any chance to get a story at a game's expense. But most important is how many people trust and listen to them. By defaming video games they are abusing that trust, and they're just sick.
I personally think it's a unhealthy mixture of quite a few of them.
I don't know what the situation is in Australia so I won't comment, on top of that I haven't had much experience with MMO's so I'll leave them unscathed by my verbal abuse as well (wouldn't be fair to have a go at something I know little about).
People like Jack Thompson are always going to be about as long as we have problems in society and people expected to deal with them. Like movies and Rock/Metal, games make a very good scape goat when the proverbial shit hits the fan.
About uninformed journalists...again, they are a natural evil. People make mistakes, last time I checked, journalists are people too. Unfortunatly, when a journalist makes a mistake, the impact or effect of it is useually larger than your average joe/jane.
About EA relaesing sub-standard games.
It sucks, yes.
It shouldn't continue, I agree.
But it's going to continue because it makes money, and in the end thats what any company aims to do (why do you think we call it the games INDUSTRY?).
Onto rabid fanboys, wherever anything is widely liked or has a following you are going to get those who above and beond the call of duty. Whether we like it or not the rest of us are going to have to just try to ignore them and show that we aren't all like that.
I don't know what the situation is in Australia so I won't comment, on top of that I haven't had much experience with MMO's so I'll leave them unscathed by my verbal abuse as well (wouldn't be fair to have a go at something I know little about).
People like Jack Thompson are always going to be about as long as we have problems in society and people expected to deal with them. Like movies and Rock/Metal, games make a very good scape goat when the proverbial shit hits the fan.
About uninformed journalists...again, they are a natural evil. People make mistakes, last time I checked, journalists are people too. Unfortunatly, when a journalist makes a mistake, the impact or effect of it is useually larger than your average joe/jane.
About EA relaesing sub-standard games.
It sucks, yes.
It shouldn't continue, I agree.
But it's going to continue because it makes money, and in the end thats what any company aims to do (why do you think we call it the games INDUSTRY?).
Onto rabid fanboys, wherever anything is widely liked or has a following you are going to get those who above and beond the call of duty. Whether we like it or not the rest of us are going to have to just try to ignore them and show that we aren't all like that.
It's a difficult choice between MMO and EA. But in the end EA wins because at least Grindy unoriginal MMOs offers a social aspect to gaming, compared to EA who just release [Insert game title] n sequels.
Interesting. You're right of course and I've heard the argument Ubi Soft makes the "Petz" games, and in turn uses that money to make Splinter Cell. Money gets the good games made, just as much as the bad ones and you have to make that money first. But it's not really EA releasing bad games that gets me mad. It's EA cutting other people's very promising games to the ground before they're released. That's a bit different, IMHO. It almost seems like it should violate some anti-trust laws or something. Don't improve the product, just buy out the competition, etc. etc.Iron Mal post=9.73314.791921 said:
Am I off track here?
Don't be a fanboy, I believe mmorpg's are definitely a problem.
1. Subscriptions fees - there was a 2007 survey on the revenue in browser based mmorpg's and it turned out item shops turn in relatively the same amount as subscription fees.
I also think the usual counter argument if there wasn't subscription fees they wouldn't be able to make the game as good or keep the servers up is utter rubbish, the reason why there are subscription fees is because they are a company and they want your money, they are like the government: if they can get away with it they will tax you for it.
I can understand one time costs but continually paying them imo is ridiculous, and yes I can afford to play subscription based games before anyone jumps on me for this.
2. People who don't like the game but like the people or their friends play it, so in there opinion it's awesome!
If the game is terrible and your just using it as a social networking site then it's not a good game.
3. Most mmorpg's aren't fun - I used to play mmorpg's I stopped when I realized: This is not fun, sure chatting with other's online is fun, but the main focus on mmorpg's is competitive play which generally is more OCD and elitist based. It's like I killed a billion of a monster to get a rare item drop, and when I finally got the drop it wasn't as rewarding or fun as I first thought.
4. All mmorpg players are evil - Come on everyone at one time has PK'ed a lower levelled character, the thing is with mmorpg's like real life people are nice to one kind of person and hate another.
I remember clearly what happened in a badly moderated mmorpg where there was widespread killing everywhere, just like rl people killing each other for no reason, abusiveness and death threats, and on this particular server there was a day where a group banded together and killed all players of a nationality, the other side then responded with equal killings until mass bannings were in effect.
Mmorpg's aren't the devil of gaming but I think they have committed sins against gaming.
1. Subscriptions fees - there was a 2007 survey on the revenue in browser based mmorpg's and it turned out item shops turn in relatively the same amount as subscription fees.
I also think the usual counter argument if there wasn't subscription fees they wouldn't be able to make the game as good or keep the servers up is utter rubbish, the reason why there are subscription fees is because they are a company and they want your money, they are like the government: if they can get away with it they will tax you for it.
I can understand one time costs but continually paying them imo is ridiculous, and yes I can afford to play subscription based games before anyone jumps on me for this.
2. People who don't like the game but like the people or their friends play it, so in there opinion it's awesome!
If the game is terrible and your just using it as a social networking site then it's not a good game.
3. Most mmorpg's aren't fun - I used to play mmorpg's I stopped when I realized: This is not fun, sure chatting with other's online is fun, but the main focus on mmorpg's is competitive play which generally is more OCD and elitist based. It's like I killed a billion of a monster to get a rare item drop, and when I finally got the drop it wasn't as rewarding or fun as I first thought.
4. All mmorpg players are evil - Come on everyone at one time has PK'ed a lower levelled character, the thing is with mmorpg's like real life people are nice to one kind of person and hate another.
I remember clearly what happened in a badly moderated mmorpg where there was widespread killing everywhere, just like rl people killing each other for no reason, abusiveness and death threats, and on this particular server there was a day where a group banded together and killed all players of a nationality, the other side then responded with equal killings until mass bannings were in effect.
Mmorpg's aren't the devil of gaming but I think they have committed sins against gaming.
You're probably right, but their sins aren't on trial here. I was looking for the big fish in the pond, and then maybe what people think we can do about it, if anything. A Pro/Con MMO thread should probably get made, or revisited, though, since people seem to wanna talk about it.ThePlasmatizer post=9.73314.791939 said:
It's uninformed. You left out the n. When I first read it I thought you were talking about something else entirely.
I opted for fanboys but...only so far as they can sometimes seem unwilling to try something new or play a game that isn't attached to a console. Honestly, the funnest stuff to give a whirl is consistently blazing out of the indie scene.
I opted for fanboys but...only so far as they can sometimes seem unwilling to try something new or play a game that isn't attached to a console. Honestly, the funnest stuff to give a whirl is consistently blazing out of the indie scene.
Fanboys are fine and wont ruin the industry, however fanboys who Flame thier hate will eventualy get an outlet that is larger than a net board and will ruin the industry. If the major media new the things being spewed on boards the gameing industry would have to fight its self out of a major hole created by idiots. Can yall imagine what would happen if fox heard alot of things on boards or accross the internet gaming chats? Chaos!
MMOs aren't going to be the end of the games industry. The only way I can ever see that happen is that if game developers and advertise-err I mean reviewers think that they can do whatever the hell they want with the single-player campaign and that having multiplayer would make up for it. I find it interesting that many of the MMO games that sold well were the kinds of games you actually didn't NEED To play as a Massively-Multiplayer game, you could actually solo your way through. (Diablo 2 if it counts, Hellgate London, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and I don't know about Age of Conan or Warhammer online)
And in fact of those ones I listed (Excluding Warhammer Online and Age of Conan since I never played them) I've actually played through either mostly or all single-player. I've gone through 99% of Guild Wars grouping only for PvP. (Vizunah Square had a bunch of stupid henchmen that'd get stuck behind walls so I needed players) Before I lost interest I went through just about all I played of Hellgate London by myself.
But I really doubt that the appeal of multiplayer gaming will keep game companies from trying on Singleplayer Mode. I'm really a single-player, I never had anyone to play with me since I'm the only person within a mile or so radius in my neighbourhood who's into video games, so of course I had no one to play with.
Sure I admit Co-Op can be pretty fun and some of the most memorable experiences with my friends are when we got a few really funny occasions on Smash Bros or when we managed to get that 752 hit on Mithos on multiplayer. (Considering we managed to stun-lock him enough without spamming Sword Rain _____ and it was on hard I think that's definitely memorable) Oh and Legend of Mana. I'm really not that competitive at all.
And in fact of those ones I listed (Excluding Warhammer Online and Age of Conan since I never played them) I've actually played through either mostly or all single-player. I've gone through 99% of Guild Wars grouping only for PvP. (Vizunah Square had a bunch of stupid henchmen that'd get stuck behind walls so I needed players) Before I lost interest I went through just about all I played of Hellgate London by myself.
But I really doubt that the appeal of multiplayer gaming will keep game companies from trying on Singleplayer Mode. I'm really a single-player, I never had anyone to play with me since I'm the only person within a mile or so radius in my neighbourhood who's into video games, so of course I had no one to play with.
Sure I admit Co-Op can be pretty fun and some of the most memorable experiences with my friends are when we got a few really funny occasions on Smash Bros or when we managed to get that 752 hit on Mithos on multiplayer. (Considering we managed to stun-lock him enough without spamming Sword Rain _____ and it was on hard I think that's definitely memorable) Oh and Legend of Mana. I'm really not that competitive at all.
I voted for Rabid Fanboys.
Speaking as someone who's studying to work in the games industry, I find it quite disheartening sometimes when I read some comments on forums left by fanboys or spoilt brats with an over inflated sense entitlement.
I can easily imagine how soul destroying it could be to have put in a lot of effort & spent over a year working on a game only to have it unfairly criticised and taken apart by fanboys, especially if they go along the rout that they took with Kane & Lynch for example, posting lots of biased 1 score user reviews even though they'd never played it.
Sometimes I wonder why I'm even bothering to get into the industry.
Shit, I'm already jaded & I haven't even finished the 1st year of my course, let alone worked on my 1st game.
Speaking as someone who's studying to work in the games industry, I find it quite disheartening sometimes when I read some comments on forums left by fanboys or spoilt brats with an over inflated sense entitlement.
I can easily imagine how soul destroying it could be to have put in a lot of effort & spent over a year working on a game only to have it unfairly criticised and taken apart by fanboys, especially if they go along the rout that they took with Kane & Lynch for example, posting lots of biased 1 score user reviews even though they'd never played it.
Sometimes I wonder why I'm even bothering to get into the industry.
Shit, I'm already jaded & I haven't even finished the 1st year of my course, let alone worked on my 1st game.
Well, this is certainly true. But when it comes down to it, people will pay for what they enjoy. And it's at maximum $10 a month, hardly breaking the bank.ThePlasmatizer post=9.73314.791939 said:
I've said before that I play FFXI, and I play it as I would play any other game, I switch it on, I level a bit or I do some missions for a bit or I do some endgame events. Then only person I talk to out of the game who owns it is the person I bought it with. I mean, I talk to people and I get along with them but when it comes down to it, a game is all it is.ThePlasmatizer post=9.73314.791939 said:
Well, I enjoy the leveling aspect and the endgame events. I tend to cut corners and avoid grind wherever I can though. I mean, I've been leveling Samurai recently, and there are these special gloves you can get for them which increase your attack slightly. But I do I want to spend hours and hours pissing around, killing a mob every 2 hours? No not really. If people get bitchy then who really gives a shit? It's a game isn't it?ThePlasmatizer post=9.73314.791939 said:
Well, I haven't encountered anything like that. There are a lot of... jaded people shall we say that get thier kicks by thinking "oh I'm a better Paladin than you, I'm therefore more awesome" but they can be easily ignored. Luckily, SE have made it impossible to MPK people unless the other person did something totally retarded.ThePlasmatizer post=9.73314.791939 said:
In conclusion, I agree with you that MMO games are a bad thing if you let them get out of hand, but if just treat it as any other game then I don't see any harm done.