Poll: The Greatest Threat to Gaming

[smithy_2045]

1) Australia is getting crazy with the Censorship, are they robbing people of gaming experiences, or is that just temporary political insanity?

I don't live in Australia, but the idea that anyone can look at what their government is doing to freedom of choice and say, "Well, good job," is appalling.

We still generally get the games, they're just revised so they fit within the classifications since we don't have an R18+ rating, similar to movies.

And the biggest issue for games is declining quality. With the current economic issues, people aren't going to be buying any and every game, because their wallet is lighter, and their job security is lower. Which will inevitably result in companies like EA killing themselves with their money-milking strategies, whilst Valve would survive because their games are known to be value for money.

At least, that's how it panned out in my dream.

 

[magicmonkeybars]

gamers are the greatest threat to gaming, only we can destroy the industry as a whole.

 

[TOGSolid]

But DOA4, is a lot about mixing up your attack pattern and strategies in comparison to say, street fighter.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

Just because street fighter is 'zomg 2d' doesn't mean it requires any less strategy. If anything, a game like Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, which features a much more simplified countering system requires even more skill and unpredictability due to an experienced opponent's ability to just push a button and nullify your attack. Due to DOA 4 over complicating basically everything, it actually comes away with a much more sloppy and spammy feel.
If you look at any of the games classically thought of as "elite" I.e. Quake 3, Counterstrike, Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, Starcraft, etc. you'll find a common theme. These games on the surface are not overly complex in any way shape or form. However the strategies and mechanics running under the surface are amazingly deep.
Games these days instead try and present an overly complex surface, yet have a disappointingly mushy core.

CAPCOM SUCKS AT WRITING

Yet that's also what makes them so great. Some of the most hilariously crappy lines ever usually come from Capcom games that you just can't help but love. Devil May Cry "liiiiiiiiight!" scene anyone?

 

[Hunde Des Krieg]

on the poll where it says uniformed journalists, does it mean unINformed journalists? any way the killer of the industry would have to be EA, the giant behemoth that it is, swallowing up the independent developers and attatching anti-goodness filters to their games.

 

[Raven28256]

I do put part of the blame at their feet for scaremongering, and part of the blame at the game makers feet for prolonging the myths that all games are just guns and titties by letting games come out that conform to the myth. There's a huge gap between edgy mature titles and just crowbarring some nudity in to sell it to more kids.

I've been saying this for years now. Games will never be taken seriously while developers keep releasing stuff that is borderline softcore porno all the damn time. I mean, every now and then is okay but Christ, all the fighting games seem to be in a race to see who can make a completely nude female character with ZZ cups first. It just makes the industry look childish and immature at a time when gaming already has a negative opinion among many non-gamers. Movies can get away with it because they have been around so long that they are an accepted form of entertainment. When games do it, it just seems to confirm the beliefs of the scaremongers that games are bad and will corrupt your mind. Not to mention the fact that the average person still thinks that games are for children, so when they hear about nudity in a game they throw a fit.

There needs to be more truly mature games instead of "mature" games. Mature games are ones that cover complex, relevant, or mature subject matter and present it in an intelligent way. "Mature" games are ones that have women with huge boobies in clothing that only covers their nipples and vulva cutting up enemies that all suffer from hemophilia.

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

I've been saying this for years now. Games will never be taken seriously while developers keep releasing stuff that is borderline softcore porno all the damn time. I mean, every now and then is okay but Christ, all the fighting games seem to be in a race to see who can make a completely nude female character with ZZ cups first. It just makes the industry look childish and immature at a time when gaming already has a negative opinion among many non-gamers.

Don't talk shit about a genre you quite clearly don't know a damn about. I imagine you've played DOA and SC4 and are judging fighting games on those examples. Play King of Fighters, play Fatal Fury, play DarkStalkers. It's a totally different experience.

 

[Raven28256]

I've been saying this for years now. Games will never be taken seriously while developers keep releasing stuff that is borderline softcore porno all the damn time. I mean, every now and then is okay but Christ, all the fighting games seem to be in a race to see who can make a completely nude female character with ZZ cups first. It just makes the industry look childish and immature at a time when gaming already has a negative opinion among many non-gamers.

Don't talk shit about a genre you quite clearly don't know a damn about. I imagine you've played DOA and SC4 and are judging fighting games on those examples. Play King of Fighters, play Fatal Fury, play DarkStalkers. It's a totally different experience.

What the hell are you talking about?

Firstly, I was making a comment about the character designs in most fighting games, which are usually among the most hyper-sexualized there are. Those games have plenty of females fitting the description I just gave too. Like Felicia, a catgirl who is covered only by a few strands of strategically-placed fur. Or how about Morrigan, with her giant cleavage barely contained within that skin-tight suit she wears. All fighting games now have at least several female characters who have A.) grossly exaggerated breasts, B.) skin-tight clothing that reveals the fact that they, like Britney Spears, don't wear any undergarments, C.) extremely revealing clothing that wouldn't cover a fetus, or D.) a combination of all three just mentioned. Sure, other genres do it too, but fighting games are among the worst offenders.

Besides, the three franchises you mentioned aren't exactly...how should I put it...relevant anymore. I was mostly referring to current mainstream fighting games, which DOA and Soul Calibur are pretty much the only examples of anymore. Darkstalkers, King of Fighters, and Fatal Fury haven't seen new versions for quite a few years now, and there are no signs of that changing anytime soon. Even then, they have fallen to more of a cult following.

Finally, I don't like fighting games and generally agree with Yathzee about the genre. Say what you will and make assumptions about me "clearly not knowing a damn about them," I used to play fighting games. However, that was many years ago, and I have since lost interest in the genre. That doesn't mean I'm so ignorant of the genre that I can't look at screenshots of the latest fighting game and not notice that all but one or two of the female characters look like they came straight out of a porno magazine for...strange...fetishes.

 

[CoziestPigeon]

MMO's are what will ruin gaming. I play WAR and used to play WoW, but I feel dirty about it. People play them alot and swear by them, starting to ONLY play them, and shun every other high quality game.

And they tend to suck.

 

[mr mcshiznit]

I have to agree with the fighting game thing with the developers making the female characters almost nude. in your defense Arrow you named 3 games that all came out before the newest soul caliber and DOA so is it possible that you both are right? In the past your right less focus on the boobies but in the here and now 3d fighters have more scantily clad woman. FACT. Look at them,it is sad however that this is what people see fighting games as.

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

What the hell are you talking about? etc.

I don't like making long quotes.

OK, I'll give you Darkstalkers. Not entirely sure why I gave that as an example retrospectively. And I apologize for the agressive tone of my last post, a lot of people critise genres based on the merits of one or two games which can really frustrate me. Especially when they argue hammer and tong that these games are awful, even without playing them. I know some people like this and I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

Anyway, my point was that I don't think it's fair to say that all fighting games are sort of... unfair in the perception or women shall we say. I think, while it's understandable that characters in a fighting game have to be fit, when the genre made the jump from 2-D to 3-D, they went a little bit nuts.
I'll use King of Fighters as an example. Looking at 94 through to the footage of XII, there is no evidence of the sexualisation you talk about. Granted, the female characters are thin but they fight at a professional level, of course they are. Look at characters like King, Whip, Yuri, Vanessa, Malin, Leona, Kasumi, Momoko etc. They look like they would. The only expection is Angel I guess, but she was characterised as a drunk girl in her early 20s which means shes pretty well done.
Then take King of Fighters: Maximum Impact (a 3-D version) which has Lien Neville [http://jogos.br.msn.com/bs.media/full/4-LienNeville.jpg] in it.

I guess this is why the 2-D games are used in professional tornaments and all that. The 3-D ones are hard to take seriously at times.
For your reference, the last King of Fighters game came out last year and another is in the works.

Mr Mcshiznit, I was wrong about Darkstalkers. It was just one the first fighting games that popped into my head.

 

[Crunchy English]

Agr

There needs to be more truly mature games instead of "mature" games. Mature games are ones that cover complex, relevant, or mature subject matter and present it in an intelligent way. "Mature" games are ones that have women with huge boobies in clothing that only covers their nipples and vulva cutting up enemies that all suffer from hemophilia.

Thank-you so much sir,
You're point takes a sharp turn toward imagery land at the end there, but I couldn't agree more with you. Gaming can, and has, tackled serious ethical and social issues with great success. And I don't mean Haze's "WAR IS BAD" (Once again Yahtzee's wisdom shines through), but real issues. What better way to understand someone's position than to "play" them in a video game.

Imagine a game where you played a foreign soldier during a war with the Western World. There are first person scenes where your briefed by your superiors, armed, trained and dropped against faceless American/British/Etc. troops. A game like that would cause enough controversy to make Fox News implode with joyful fear-mongering, but it would win gaming a lot more respect than Ivy's cup size or upskirt shots of japanese "fighters" who look about 15.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

The problem is taste.

Games are 'fun' and 'childish' according to the Great Lizard Overseers, so them, as well as comics should only present the childish things that big kids get off on.

Then there's Vertigo, Maus etc.

Games have made some pretty big statements before, Super Columbine Massacre RPG is actually a shocking inditement on the tragedy, but the way it's put across switches your perspective half-way through so you actually feel the horror.

Dark Corners of the Earth puts a fantasy spin on the idea of Stockholm Syndrome. Even Dracula and Frankenstein explore the darker edges to our psyche.

Problem is though : They won't sell in earnest. Look at Psychonauts which deals with the mentally deficient, madness, racism, child abuse, Oedipus Complex, young love, Maternal Fear...and manages to do it without really poking fun at it.

Boyd is a terrorist...

The problem is getting the media to accept that Games can cope with Mature Subjects when it's full of the 'mature' subjects of swearing, boobies and shagging.

BUT...Comics managed it, Films have managed it, even board-games have had some success.

It's down to the people in charge to make them, and us to re-find the maturity in our games, rather than just the catharsis of mowing down ANOTHER alien race.

 

[C3rtainD3ath]

Specify, what's a casual gamer?

people who like COD4 multiplayer, those that think Halo is actually good. The people who think the peak of gaming is Portal.

Pretty much all of the really shallow games

The games are bad just because u dont like them? i think CoD4 is a first in the FPS genre, MODERN warfare ot WW2 or futuristic, i enjoyed the campaign and i enjoyed playing it on veteran and i still enjoy playing it online. Im not saying i like halo, but if it had been given more time, fix the bugs and add a few more levels to the campaign it would have been much better. Portal is a pretty cool game which requires you to think not just 'point and click'. But i dont think its the peak of gaming.

 

[Lord_Jaroh]

None of the options are right. The fall of gaming will be Advertising...

Or lack thereof. how many games were ignored because of the lack of advertisement?

Actually, I'm talking more along the lines of advertising within games and such. That will kill the gaming industry, as more people won't accept the advertising as it becomes more and more "in your face". The way games are costing more and more ridiculous amounts of money to make (mainly for advertising ironically), companies will have to turn to more and more blatant advertising until games just aren't fun anymore, and they are just one long advertisment for something (think "Sneak King" on a grander scale). That will be the death knell.

 

[stompy]

Being Australian, I obviously vote Australian censorship.

 

[LV Solace]

Ignorence, and gullibility in the public, crazy old timers like thompson, and EA strategy. Those are the real threats to gaming.

ignorence and gulibility in the public, because like all good sheep the public will blindly listen to what ever the media spits at them. ANd thats all the media does, is consider games an affront to what ever god the lead anchor or reporter belives in, and they spread they filth like it is truth. And the public eats it up.

People like JAck Thompson, because like the media his fecered hatred of anything remotely violent, is spread to the people. And because he belives that simulated violence causes real violence, despite studies showing other wise. His story had a bigger megaphone, therefore he got more attention.

And the EA strategy, well it's not so much the strategy, as it is, us gamers putting up with thier bullshit. We're to blame here, if we continue to support things, they will continue to be done.

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

On the subject of elitism: Yeah elitists like jazzyluv do irrationaly defend games that they consider high art, and attack all games that they don't for no particular reason. But they're not going to admit their wrong, so whats the point in arguing with them?

I find it theraputic. If you want my rant points on why I don't hate MMOs, go through the rest of the thread. Don't feel like repeating myself.
I will add that there will never be monthly fees on single player games. Think about it, how are they going to know what your doing with the game. You could've completed it and sold it and it just wouldn't happen. If you mean online games, you have to pay for XBL monthly do you not?

 

[Raven28256]

What the hell are you talking about? etc.

I don't like making long quotes.

OK, I'll give you Darkstalkers. Not entirely sure why I gave that as an example retrospectively. And I apologize for the agressive tone of my last post, a lot of people critise genres based on the merits of one or two games which can really frustrate me. Especially when they argue hammer and tong that these games are awful, even without playing them. I know some people like this and I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

Anyway, my point was that I don't think it's fair to say that all fighting games are sort of... unfair in the perception or women shall we say. I think, while it's understandable that characters in a fighting game have to be fit, when the genre made the jump from 2-D to 3-D, they went a little bit nuts.
I'll use King of Fighters as an example. Looking at 94 through to the footage of XII, there is no evidence of the sexualisation you talk about. Granted, the female characters are thin but they fight at a professional level, of course they are. Look at characters like King, Whip, Yuri, Vanessa, Malin, Leona, Kasumi, Momoko etc. They look like they would. The only expection is Angel I guess, but she was characterised as a drunk girl in her early 20s which means shes pretty well done.
Then take King of Fighters: Maximum Impact (a 3-D version) which has Lien Neville [http://jogos.br.msn.com/bs.media/full/4-LienNeville.jpg] in it.

I guess this is why the 2-D games are used in professional tornaments and all that. The 3-D ones are hard to take seriously at times.
For your reference, the last King of Fighters game came out last year and another is in the works.

Mr Mcshiznit, I was wrong about Darkstalkers. It was just one the first fighting games that popped into my head.

I hope you understand that I'm not insulting the fighting genre as a game genre. I don't like the genre, mind you, but I'm not insulting it. I'm speaking solely about the female character designs in the genre, particularly for 3D fighting games like Soul Calibur and DOA. It is like everyone is in a race to feature a fully nude female character. Ivy's boobs get bigger each game, and she loses more and more of her outfit. She started the series with only slightly above average breasts and a one piece suit. Now she has at least DDs with that...thing...she is wearing now.

In either case, when Ivy is completely nude with GG cup breasts in SC5, just remember that I fucking called it.