Poll: The Joker: How Good of a Villain is He?

[Smooth Operator]

Well if you take a second look at comic book characters you will notice something pretty obvious, the main guys are not suppose to be beaten, just roughened up and tucked away so they can kick ass another day.

If heroes actually killed villains their careers would be hella short

 

[JesterRaiin]

What can i say ? It's not wise to express one's opinion without quick googlecheck.

Crossover? Neat.

The other two don't really prove me wrong though. Bane considers everyone beneath him, and by that point you showed in the Superman thing, it looks like he's already outmaneuvered him. Joker doesn't usually win in the brute strength department, but he's normally at least a good few steps ahead of everyone else.

- Bane fights and tries to kill those he finds his equal. Everyone else lands in his trash bin. Just like he does with Joker.

- Superman saves those Joker threatened to kill, so it's obvious victory. And we all know how battle between Man of Steel and mere human would end.

Seriously sir, please cease to discuss this topic with your arguments being based solely on your opinion without prior knowledge about comics, situations they depict and their outcome. It's pointless.

 

[TwistedEllipses]

Batman doesn't believe in killing his enemies, so every defeat of the Joker ends with the Joker returning. Someone without that code on the other hand would put a final end to the Joker. E.g. As mentioned previously, the Punisher.

 

[gorfias]

Spoiler

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muujl83fimQ]

around 19:30
4 superheros got trapped by the joker and batman takes it down with a batrang

That was great! Worth watching if for no other reason than the last 30 seconds!

Joker individually isn't much of a challenge. At his best, what makes him so scary is his ability to set innocents into danger (like Nolan's DK: the hospitals, the boats, etc.) Unfortunately, his job is so much easier than Batman's. Destroying is easier than creating or protecting.

 

[uneek]

Considering Punisher is Marvel, I kind of doubt that first one.

Crossover. There's also been Spiderman and Batman teamed up to beat Joker and Carnage.

Well, I always thought that Superman (in general) was kind of a completely idiotic superhero. I mean the guy can't be injured, lazer eyes, super strength, speed, good looks, jewish (or at least that is what I was told he was or a vessel for the jewish community during WW2) and the only weakness is Kryptonite. It seems like a very poor character that is little to no flaws.

Ever notice that you don't see Superman fighting street thugs? It's because he's busy fighting people like Brainiac, Darkseid and Doomsday. People who can (and have) straight up kill the shit out of him. Superman fights in and above his weight class like any other super hero, so I've never gotten the "he's too powerful" argument. He's not for the role he plays. He has personality flaws. I'm sure you've heard "with great power comes great responsibility"? Well multiply that by about a thousand and you get an idea of Clark Kent's day to day life. He also has the "never kill anyone" code Batman has, except do you know how much easier it is for Supes to go nuclear and kill everyone? His entire life is spent holding back.

Kryptonite is not his only weakness. Magic effects him just like it would anyone else. That's why there's the Shadowpact and now Justice League Dark, Superman is about as useful as a cotton condom when it comes to fighting magic users. The Green Lantern Corps can synthesise green kryptonite radiation.

Although now that you mention it the new 52 is actually pretty good for superman. It's brought him back down a bit. In Action comics it was the good old jumping over buildings Superman who gets knocked out by taking a train in the face.

Thank You. That's all I have to say.

 

[ace_of_something]

The Joker's principal motivation is usually 'for the lulz' or 'to irritate batman' I've personally never found him that terribly interesting. modern Mr. Freeze with his tragic backstory, ends justify the means methods, and having an actual end goal. That's a villain I can get behind.

 

[a7xman]

I agree with the above, I always felt Freeze was underutilized, but what I guess I find interesting about the Joker is his ability to find people pressure points and exploit them. As far as criminals without superpowers, he seems to have complex plans that others don't, at least in my opinion. Does anyone feel he could use one of these plots to beat another hero, barring Batman showing up as in the Superman instance? What I'm saying is, could the Joker have beaten Superamn, or another hero, through an elaborate plan if Batman doesn't show up?

 

[JesterRaiin]

Seriously sir, please cease to discuss this topic with your arguments being based solely on your opinion without prior knowledge about comics, situations they depict and their outcome. It's pointless.

Considering the topic is largely subjective, I think opinion matters.

It's pointless to speculate about possible aftermath of events that already happened, leaving everyone free to see the results.
...but be my guest.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Wasn't there a comic where Superman tried to take down the Joker?

I don't really read DC so I don't know.

i know there was a cross over Batman/Superman ep when the cartoons where big in the 90s, Superman tried then (think he was hire by Luthor, always ends well...) it didn't end well for Superman.


but back OT: beat him? yeah, most could if it was a fist fight, but it wouldn't be a fist fight, they'd have to out maneuver The Joker, and this is the kinda villain that lets himself get arrested to further his own plans, and i'm not entirely convinced he intends to kill ever hostage he takes, so you can never, ever drop your guard when he involved.

so yes, another hero besides Batman could beat The Joker, but they'd have to be one of the smarter heroes and not a dumbass like Superman

Dreadwing - 'a true villian dose not kill needlessly, corpses only hasten a heroes step, while the wounded, make for much better speed bumps'

 

[Unesh52]

he is completely psychotic... explain his motives and it make sense.

How can he be completely psychotic if he has a sensible motive? I always thought the thing that made him such a tough case for Batman was the fact that his plans don't make sense, so he's unpredictable. (But I've never heard of The Killing Joke, so what do I know?)

Aquaman (haha)

And because I love beating dead horses, Aquaman is not lame. He's still got super strength and the entire army of his nation behind him. So talking to sea creatures isn't so useful - he'd still kick the shit out of lots of villains. He even gets a wicked extendo-hook hand at one point. I'm not saying he's the best, but I'm sick of people billing him as a one trick pony that couldn't hold his own in a fight with a "real" hero.

OT: The Joker is crazy and deceptively cunning, so he's tougher than he looks, but ultimately, there's nothing he could come up with that Super Man couldn't just punch to death, or Lantern couldn't put in a big green bubble, or Red Tornado couldn't blow away. And indeed, he goes to jail with astonishing reliability. He just tends to get out a lot. Not the most threating villain necessarily, but he's cool because he's scary in his insanity, and persistent in his campaign for chaos. He's not especially difficult to beat for most heroes though.

 

[Unesh52]

so yes, another hero besides Batman could beat The Joker, but they'd have to be one of the smarter heroes and not a dumbass like Superman

Why is Supes a dumbass now? One of his powers is super cognition (like Flash's ability). He can think faster than any human, so he learns things at a superhuman rate. It's just that it rarely comes in handy, since there are yet smarter heroes that can handle the planning while he focuses on punching the shit out of stuff. It's not that he can't though.

(I still really don't like Super Man, but I'm just saying.)

 

[Arqus_Zed]

Howzabout Lobo?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081230001819/marvel_dc/images/2/2e/Lobo_029.jpg

Or isn't he considered "hero" enough?

 

[Axolotl]

Lobo's sort of cheating though, I mean he fought the Authority to a standstill, there really isn't much that can challenge him.

Although speaking of the Authority, the Joker wouldn't last a day in the Wildstorm universe and since all the Wildstorm characters are now part of the DC universe proper, that means theres a ton of characters who could sqush the Joker with ease.

Also Batman is a much more of a flawless wish-fulfillment character than Superman.

 

[Lunar Templar]

so yes, another hero besides Batman could beat The Joker, but they'd have to be one of the smarter heroes and not a dumbass like Superman

Why is Supes a dumbass now? One of his powers is super cognition (like Flash's ability). He can think faster than any human, so he learns things at a superhuman rate. It's just that it rarely comes in handy, since there are yet smarter heroes that can handle the planning while he focuses on punching the shit out of stuff. It's not that he can't though.

(I still really don't like Super Man, but I'm just saying.)

*dons the 'my opinion' hat* quick FYI all my knowledge of him is from the cartoon from the 90s

despite ALL of his powers he acts like a low level thug. he breaks through walls, even when there's no real need, don't remember him collecting a lot of evidence to lock a villain up (its been awhile since i cared enough to look) his first reaction to pretty much anything seems to be 'SMASH!'.

remember the animated cross over i mentioned? well Superman was very nearly killed in his first encounter with The Joker, because he DID. NOT. THINK. he didn't think to secure The Joker, or even give him a second glance after 'his plan' (a chunk of green Kryptonite shaped like a dragon) 'didn't work' -.- yeah, we got a real thinker there.

then there was a few eps where he was at some point striped of his powers, and his first instinct? punch a hole in the wall -.-

that said, i donno how he is in the comics but, i doubt its much different.

 

[Canjul]

Well, to anybody who wants to see Superman go up against him, there's the three-part Batman/Superman animated crossover, "World's Finest." In it, Lex Luthor pays Joker to kill Superman, and only some timely Bat-Intervention saves him. Superman could pulverize damn near any villain, but the Joker outsmarts him pretty easily.

Granted, I'm going by the animated continuity, but thats because it actually has some. The comics are a bloody nightmares, with new powers arising and being forgotten every other issue and the inconsistent characterization that comes from having hundreds of different writers.

"Super-Cognition" illustrates this point perfectly because it's completely retarded and in no way actually related to the classic Superman character.