Poll: The Spartan ratio

[warhammerfrog]

what do you think the average spartan could do in terms of killing (the historical warrior not the space one)

 

[rokkolpo]

1-5

When you say average, I'm inclined to think on their own.
And they would be shit on their own.

 

[ReservoirAngel]

It's not about what the individual Spartan's power. Yes, they were good warriors but they were only good warriors because they knew how to work in formation to perfection. One Spartan on his own, while he could outmatch a group of normal soldiers, yes...the Spartans were only as good as they were because of their teamwork and strategy.

 

[Glamorgan]

Eh, the average spartan wouldn't be that amazing. Because for every huge daunting muscle man, there's going to be several defenseless women. Meaning the average wouldn't be too great.

I'm assuming, anyway. I don't really know much about that area of history.

 

[darth.pixie]

Considering they usually fought in a Spartan phalanx, an individual Spartan wouldn't do much damage on his own or wouldn't be protected on his own. They specialized mostly in team fighting. Also they were somewhat suicidal. So 1 to 5. barely. It depends on who those 5 are.

 

[Realitycrash]

That Spartans are some incredibly killingmachines are just fiction and myth. They were highly disciplined and had a working army. They were not much better than the average greek warrior.

Edit: And oh, since they fought in the Phalanx-formation, when facing another Phalanx, casualties inflicted on both sides were minimal. It was a stamina and moral thing. You broke your enemy and they ran, you didn't slaughter them en masse.

 

[warhammerfrog]

ok clearly this needs some clarification. the fact that the spartan was a warrior was implied. and lets say there are 299.5 (one is a midget) warriors against an endless stream of crazy guys with swords.

 

[warhammerfrog]

That Spartans are some incredibly killingmachines are just fiction and myth. They were highly disciplined and had a working army. They were not much better than the average greek warrior.

Edit: And oh, since they fought in the Phalanx-formation, when facing another Phalanx, casualties inflicted on both sides were minimal. It was a stamina and moral thing. You broke your enemy and they ran, you didn't slaughter them en masse.

seriously lighten up if some people want to believe that Spartans were Uber warriors let them. this is obviously not an accurate historical poll.

 

[Polaris19]

The Spartans themselves weren't amazing. Yes they were exceptional gifted soldiers, but they are human, and go down like any other soldier. It was their tactics and formations that made them terrible foes on the battlefield.

 

[Horus Lupercal]

Ok I`m just going to mention that the average spartan warrior trained his whole life for combat, singel and in formation, as the average soldier in the rest of greece, europe and middle east were citizen soldiers.

 

[Realitycrash]

That Spartans are some incredibly killingmachines are just fiction and myth. They were highly disciplined and had a working army. They were not much better than the average greek warrior.

Edit: And oh, since they fought in the Phalanx-formation, when facing another Phalanx, casualties inflicted on both sides were minimal. It was a stamina and moral thing. You broke your enemy and they ran, you didn't slaughter them en masse.

seriously lighten up if some people want to believe that Spartans were Uber warriors let them. this is obviously not an accurate historical poll.

I let people believe whatever they want, after they have been provided with the facts.

 

[Vryyk]

Edit: And oh, since they fought in the Phalanx-formation, when facing another Phalanx, casualties inflicted on both sides were minimal. It was a stamina and moral thing. You broke your enemy and they ran, you didn't slaughter them en masse.

Correct, which is why Hetairoi were so damn effective. Hoplite phalanxes just hold people in one place, when Greek commanders found out you could use cavalry charges to ridiculous effectiveness on the flanks of an already occupied enemy force, it revolutionized Greek warfare.

The lack of adaptability on the part of Spartan commanders caused them to go the way of the dinosaur, whereas Alexander's famous mix of Hetairoi and hoplites supported by archers gained him a massive slice of the known world.

OT: I'd say the Spartans in real life could have taken maybe 2-3 each at most. They weren't demigods, they were just horribly brutalized in training and at the forefront of discipline and unit cohesion. Excellent soldiers to be sure, but a failure to adapt kinda doomed them.

 

[darth.pixie]

Didnt some other Greeks kick thier ass, began with a T or something.

So yeah depends who they fight.

Thebans, yes. Athenians as well.

People forget that they were basically crazy and suicidal. If they didn't die in battle they were forever shamed. They couldn't lose their shields in combat as that would have been considered cowardly (tossed shield at enemy and ran). Thus, when facing such an enemy, it's clear he has the advantage as he's not afraid of death. Though he is also rather reckless.

 

[Vryyk]

They couldn't lose their shields in combat as that would have been considered cowardly (tossed shield at enemy and ran).

True, and size that up against the words of a famous Greek poet (Archilochus) on the matter of shields.

"And by a prudent flight and cunning save A life which valour could not, from the grave. A better buckler I can soon regain, But who can get another life again?"

 

[Realitycrash]

They couldn't lose their shields in combat as that would have been considered cowardly (tossed shield at enemy and ran).

True, and size that up against the words of a famous Greek poet (Archilochus) on the matter of shields.

"And by a prudent flight and cunning save A life which valour could not, from the grave. A better buckler I can soon regain, But who can get another life again?"

And yet, it's sad that things like "valor" and "glory" are still alive and kicking in modern day warfare.

 

[Casimir_Effect]

Like all armies and the soldiers that they consist of, the quality depends on the time. Sometimes they would be the elite, other times the army would be infested by nobles and the upper classes who wanted to play at being soldier.
In times of peace it is also inevitable that the soldiers become sloppy and indolent.

Sometimes the spartans have crushed their opposition.
Other times they've had seven shades of shit kicked into them (Check out what the Sacred Band of Thebes did to them various times)

 

[Vryyk]

They couldn't lose their shields in combat as that would have been considered cowardly (tossed shield at enemy and ran).

True, and size that up against the words of a famous Greek poet (Archilochus) on the matter of shields.

"And by a prudent flight and cunning save A life which valour could not, from the grave. A better buckler I can soon regain, But who can get another life again?"

And yet, it's sad that things like "valor" and "glory" are still alive and kicking in modern day warfare.

Actually I'd say valor and glory are pretty important concepts, it gets people to fill the ranks and die for their country. We'll always need people to do that, and if they don't have some greater virtue to aspire to, you'll have a terrible army on your hands. Which is why levies don't work very well.

 

[Realitycrash]

Sometimes they would be the elite, other times the army would be infested by nobles and the upper classes who wanted to play at being soldier.

Actually, in Sparta, the upper-class WERE the soldiers.

 

[Realitycrash]

They couldn't lose their shields in combat as that would have been considered cowardly (tossed shield at enemy and ran).

True, and size that up against the words of a famous Greek poet (Archilochus) on the matter of shields.

"And by a prudent flight and cunning save A life which valour could not, from the grave. A better buckler I can soon regain, But who can get another life again?"

And yet, it's sad that things like "valor" and "glory" are still alive and kicking in modern day warfare.

Actually I'd say valor and glory are pretty important concepts, it gets people to fill the ranks and die for their country. We'll always need people to do that, and if they don't have some greater virtue to aspire to, you'll have a terrible army on your hands. Which is why levies don't work very well.

You can inspire people to die for your country by appealing to different emotions and concepts. I'm talking about the "I'm big, manly, killing is awesome and I take shit from noone" part of valor. Sorry, guess I should have made that clear.
When someone quotes "Death before dishonor", my mind instantly goes to "idiot".