Poll: The whole point of iron siting...good or bad?

Recommended Videos

klasbo

New member
Nov 17, 2009
217
0
0
SgtFoley said:
klasbo said:
How ironsights in games should work: Decreased deviation and recoil at the cost of decreased movement speed. A situational tradeoff, not a universal positive or a necessity.
How about improved accuracy at the cost of decreased movement speed, because thats it how games actually do it these days and it seems to work just fine. Hip firing has terrible accuracy and massive recoil/bullet spread.
Which is exactly what I said...

Accuracy is a function of 1) your ability to aim, 2) base deviation (amt of random inaccuracy), 3) deviation added per shot (increase in random inaccuracy when you spray), and 4) recoil (change in your aim direction as a result of firing).

The ideal system is a base deviation of 0, default recoil about 8-10x what you get in any CoD game, recoil decreased by 50% when using ironsights, deviation added per shot based on weapon type, 25% reduction when in sights. 20-30% movement speed when using ironsights, possibly also lower max jump height.

Right now most weapons are recoilless and deviationless when in sights, which makes hip-firing and rushing completely worthless, and takes away all complexity in the game. Just look at Bad Company 2, everybody and their grandmother can easily get kills at any range with no skill whatsoever.
 

Ymbirtt

New member
May 3, 2009
222
0
0
Right, before I start this post, I really have to say to OP that it's ironsighting. I'm trying to put my spelling-Nazi phase behind me, but I just have to say it here.

Well, I won't say that ironsighting is always bad. There's something quite tension building about holding down the right mouse button, then having the gun fill half the screen, and your enemies fill the other like they're the only things in the world now. I also won't say that it's a good trend to follow, though, since the usual way that it works that you trade in some movement speed and peripheral vision in return for increased accuracy. This slows down the pace of every single encounter and discourages rapid movement and bullet-dodging in favour of sitting behind a box. Whilst games like that should definitely exist, not all games should be like that.

The idea behind making rapid-firing weapons inaccurate is understandable - random spraying is bad - but fixing it with enforced ironsighting feels like a really lazy solution, and there are better ways of fixing it.

The first example I'll give is Dystopia, specifically the Assault Rifle. A full clip contains 40 rounds. When you pull the trigger, the gun fires 7 rounds per second within a 1.48° cone. As you shoot, the firing rate steadily increases to 13 rounds per second after 20 shots, and the spread angle steadily increases to 9.96° after the 30th shot. If no shots are fired for 0.5 seconds, the accuracy and rate of fire are reset and the cycle starts again. This means that at medium range short controlled bursts are the only way to use the weapon, but when you're stuck in a close range fight, or need a long suppressive burst, the weapon adapts itself for that situation. It effectively de-ironsights itself when it needs to, giving a very creative solution to the perceived problem.

The second example is the Unreal Tournament series. Its most powerful weapons - the rocket launcher, the minigun, the flak cannon and the shock-combo - are difficult to use accurately. Not only that, but players move around at ridiculously high speeds, and the maps are designed to emphasise close ranged brawls rather than long range, drawn out gunfights. That means that it is impossible for you to keep your crosshairs over your enemy for any extended period of time. An weapon with a large spread will, therefore, hit more frequently in combat, because the random spread will help compensate for the fact that the crosshairs won't be over their target.

So, yeah, I see why games have iron sighting, and I understand the problem they're addressing, but there are far better ways of addressing that problem, and the fact that they're all doing it the same way is just tedious.
 

klasbo

New member
Nov 17, 2009
217
0
0
SgtFoley said:
klasbo said:
Which is exactly what I said...

Accuracy is a function of 1) your ability to aim, 2) base deviation (amt of random inaccuracy), 3) deviation added per shot (increase in random inaccuracy when you spray), and 4) recoil (change in your aim direction as a result of firing).
Right that is literally the exacy system that call of duty has right now.
The ideal system is a base deviation of 0, default recoil about 8-10x what you get in any CoD game, recoil decreased by 50% when using ironsights, deviation added per shot based on weapon type, 25% reduction when in sights. 20-30% movement speed when using ironsights, possibly also lower max jump height.

Right now most weapons are recoilless and deviationless when in sights, which makes hip-firing and rushing completely worthless, and takes away all complexity in the game. Just look at Bad Company 2, everybody and their grandmother can easily get kills at any range with no skill whatsoever.
You have obviously never played a call of duty game in the last few years. They have recoil and on most guns it is massive if you fire for more then a second straight.
Oh ha ha, very funny.
Played CoD4 (and promod, mostly promod actually), MW2, and BlOps. None of the guns have any recoil, compared to AVA (Alliance of Valiant Arms) or CS:S, or even our very own RushZone mod for BF2. I can keep any gun in any of the last 4 CoD games pointed in the exact same spot when firing the whole clip through without any problems. I can switch targets five times during a 30-round spray and at least land 60% hits on human-sized targets at 25-30m range.
Too damn easy.

And yes, I did play for one of the top 5 BF2 5v5 infantry teams in the world, how did you know? :X
 

klasbo

New member
Nov 17, 2009
217
0
0
SgtFoley said:
klasbo said:
Oh ha ha, very funny.
Played CoD4 (and promod, mostly promod actually), MW2, and BlOps. None of the guns have any recoil, compared to AVA (Alliance of Valiant Arms) or CS:S, or even our very own RushZone mod for BF2. I can keep any gun in any of the last 4 CoD games pointed in the exact same spot when firing the whole clip through without any problems.
I cann bullshit. They all have recoil and you have to adjust your aim because of that. Mabey they dont on the pc but they sure as hell do on consoles.
There's your problem. Consoles. Mouse and keyboard devours controllers in FPS games.
SgtFoley said:
I can switch targets five times during a 30-round spray and at least land 60% hits on human-sized targets at 25-30m range.

Too damn easy.
That statement is completely idiotic. You say that but it is meaningless without actual details. Anybody could land 60% of the hits on a group of 5 enemies touching each other from 25-30m away.
Did you read that? a 30-round spray. Not lifting the trigger finger. That's 5 target switches with enough rounds hit to kill each enemy (at least in CoD-world) without lifting the trigger. And of course this isn't clustered enemies, you'll never find clustered enemies (except lowbob players). Imagine 5 guys spread uniformly across the screen, and you'll get the picture.

1/6th of a second between seeing an enemy spawn in the corner of the screen and getting the headshot. Consistently. It's physically impossible to aim that fast on consoles.

SgtFoley said:
And yes, I did play for one of the top 5 BF2 5v5 infantry teams in the world, how did you know? :X
Great more useless and irrellevent statements. Are you just trying to distract people now because you dont actually have a point to stand on?
My point is that no recoil = EZ-mode. Newest generation of FPS's = EZ-mode.
EZ-mode = no challenge for us amateur PC gamers that train several hours a week with our teammates, simply because we want to be the best we can possibly be.
No challenge = no skill differential = nothing to strive for = no community = no fun.

People complained that the Pripyat wait-for-the-heli mission in CoD4 was hard. I was playing on veteran and waiting for the hard part to come. It never did.
Then I played through the game on veteran again, and only had 2 deaths during the entire game. Then I got bored and played some C&C Generals instead.

Story of my life.
 

WouldYouKindly

New member
Apr 17, 2011
1,431
0
0
I know it's not quite an iron sight, but aiming through a scope makes me feel awesome, especially in fallout NV. Nothing like crouching a half a mile away, hidden, picking off a bunch of Fiends one by one and they have no idea what's going on.

In your psychotic fun shooters, they're unnecessary and a hinderance. If there's even the slightest kiss of realism(I'm looking at you CoD) then iron sights are nearly necessary because, with the exception of a few very gifted shooters, you can't hit shit aiming from the hip.

EDIT: As a side note. I think Yahtzee hates iron sights in games because they go hand in hand with his least favorite modern mechanic, cover based shooting and the architect Sir Wally Mc Chesthigh.
 

Techno Squidgy

New member
Nov 23, 2010
1,045
0
0
Jimmy T. Malice said:
The iron sights annoy me in games like Call of Duty, because they're basically an 'I win' button that give perfect accuracy with no recoil and snap onto enemies.
Snap onto enemies, perfect accuracy, no recoil. To me that sounds like a description of an aimbot.

I don't get the impression that you played Call of Duty for any length of time because 2 of those points are completely wrong and the third, perfect accuracy, is only true of the first shot fired. Which is semi-realistic as bullets do tend to go where the sights are pointing with little deviation.

Seems to me that you just want to rag on CoD more than anything else...
 

Rock Beefchest

New member
Dec 20, 2008
316
0
0
The only time I ever not use iron sighting is when i turn a corner only to find an enemy and I shoot as a reflex. Or when I play halo, because any sight system in that game is next to pointless.
 

klasbo

New member
Nov 17, 2009
217
0
0
SgtFoley said:
Since you cant seem to answer a simple question I am done with you.
What question? The only question you've asked is "Are you trying to distract people", which is in itself just a massive offtopic distraction.

Pro tip: Ask a relevant question, preferably in the form of an actual question.
 

brodie21

New member
Apr 6, 2009
1,598
0
0
well, for me it adds to the realism and aesthetics of the game. in real life if i wanted to shoot something i would use the sights
 

BehattedWanderer

Fell off the Alligator.
Jun 24, 2009
5,237
0
0
I thought this was about some kind of mining proposition, about risking certain regions by quarrying them. Site versus sight, and what not. As for the aspect of shooting games...eh? I'll go either way. Though, I'm not that into shooters, so crosshairs generally work for me.