Poll: There is no justifiable reason for civilians to own modern weapons.

[lvl9000_woot]

Double post.

History has shown that an armed populas has no chance agaisnt its own governments military force. What makes you think that a much of civilians will be successful?

The whole insurgency in Afghanistan and Iraq seems to say otherwise. Just saying.

knock knock.
Whose there?
Its the American Revolution! oh snap

lol the only reason we have the 2nd is because of the whole, ARMED CIVILIAN POPULACE fighting ITS GOVERNMENT.

Thank you. However, times have changed and there is almost no reason for it.

Zombies.

Zombies.

@HotFezz8: (see quotes above) I don't think that was meant as a serious answer... XD

 

[Robby Foxfur]

Of course not, the idea that anyone should be able to have guns and whatnot to 'protect' themselves is a stupid idea.

Why else would America have such a high gun crime rate? Cause everyone has guns, duh. Why are the gun crime rates so low in Britain? Cause NOBODY (policemen included) have guns.

Seconded. Totally.

I disagree, yes they have a lower GUN crime rate but a HIGHER overall crime rate, so how do you call this one? are guns worth getting rid of now if its going to increase the crime rate?
(Now i'm going to stop posting because my figers hurt and my keybored ins mad at me now)

There's plenty of reason. Proctecting yourself from crackheads, protecting your sheep from wolves, keeping the goverment polite, protecting yourself from crazed gunmen, becoming a crazed gunmen and pistol whipping bitches who get out of line. Well, atleast some of them justify gun ownership.

Now, living in the UK I don't get the privilege of owning a gun, but it is one of the things I admire about the USA, it seems to me like it makes people more equal, you wouldn't have to feel intimidated in your home or walking down your street if you're packing a nine in your underwear.

Did you know the USA has a violent crime rate 10 times lower than that of the UK? Admittedly the USA is higher for homicide and man slaughter, but in everything else the UK is much, much worse. Point is, you should enjoy your right to gun ownership.


http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_01.html - USA Violent Crime Rates 2003

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs04/rdsolr1804.pdf - UK Violent Crime Rates 2003

"The British Crime Survey (BCS) estimated that there were 2,715,000
violent incidents experienced by adults in England and Wales, based on year ending December
2003 interviews, comprising 22 per cent of all BCS crime. Just over one million violent offences
were recorded by the police in 2003 (18 per cent of all recorded crime)."

Laying the stats down.

 

[Lullabye]

Double post.

History has shown that an armed populas has no chance agaisnt its own governments military force. What makes you think that a much of civilians will be successful?

The whole insurgency in Afghanistan and Iraq seems to say otherwise. Just saying.

knock knock.
Whose there?
Its the American Revolution! oh snap

lol the only reason we have the 2nd is because of the whole, ARMED CIVILIAN POPULACE fighting ITS GOVERNMENT.

Thank you. However, times have changed and there is almost no reason for it.

Zombies.

Zombies.

@HotFezz8: (see quotes above) I don't think that was meant as a serious answer... XD

Zombies!

 

[Phototoxin]

I would say no but I live in the UK which will eventually need a revolution when it becomes a police state

 

[Kyouran]

this is a new link i have put on having read, and replied, to the topic about the 8 year old shooting himself with a[sic] Uzi submachin[sic] gun.

that got me thinking, and i can't think of a single valid reason for civilians to own modern weapons (thats any gunpowder weapon which is not muzzle loaded) that can outweigh the often fatal results of mistakes, accidents, and malicious criminal activity thanks to easy access to lethal weaponary[sic].

i appreciate its written into the american constitution, and i don't want a[sic] argument about whether that is still valid, because it doesn't matter. its as part of the american psche[sic] now as mcdonalds and weed, so lets navigate around that and focus on whether anyone can justify the contiued[sic] use (and abuse) of dangerous and lethal weaponary[sic]

This is a textbook example of the modern loaded question, pardon the pun.

But I'll answer it with another: I can't find any logic in restricting arms to a minority of the population (criminals, law enforcement, and military personnel) by denying it to the rest.

And, finally, I can't find any logic in the neglect of a little feature we call SPELLCHECK! Christ!

 

[TheBoulder]

I already know that you need training but no matter how trained civies are, there will be 'accidents'. You also have to pass certain tests in the military before you get a gun. People are stupid. Not everybody is, but most are. Guns shouldn't be used at all. Also, a wrench is a tool, scissors are tools, knowledge is a tool. Guns are materialised death. Besides , why do you want a gun?

 

[TheBoulder]

What makes governments so special that they should have thousands of people armed with them but "civilians" should be completely denied access to them? Governments are made up of people and their actions. They're not magic.

Well, you see, 'civilians' arent as trained with deadly weaponry as military personel are. Guns are an abomination, at least there mostly restricted to the military.

"Well, you see," you're assuming that a person who chooses to purchase a weapon would not undergo training in the handling of one. You're also forgetting to include veterans, who have had just as much training as the people currently serving.

The idea that guns, in and of themselves, are an abomination is absurd. They are inanimate objects which serve as tools. What people do with them is what is important.

Sir i agree with you to no end this is a great statement though i dough it will have much impact in this thread.

I already know that you need training but no matter how trained civies are, there will be 'accidents'. You also have to pass certain tests in the military before you get a gun. People are stupid. Not everybody is, but most are. Guns shouldn't be used at all. Also, a wrench is a tool, scissors are tools, knowledge is a tool. Guns are materialised death. Besides , why do you want a gun?

 

[Crimson_Dragoon]

Let's hypothetically say guns are outlawed today and all guns (every single one)are taken away from civilians. Now only the military and police have guns. Oh, and the black market. So now criminals have guns, too, because getting guns on the black market is exceedingly easy if you know where to look, and what do they care if guns are illegal, they want to break the law anyways? But no civilians have them so if someone comes into their house with a gun, they're pretty much screwed.

The stories about the kids who shot themselves are tragic, but its the parent's fault for having a gun that can be easily accessed by the child. It's not the gun's fault, it's not the gun maker's fault, it's the parent's.

The point I'm getting at is that we (at least us Americans) have the right to bear arms, at least for defense. I'm all for having stricter restrictions on getting guns and not allowing military grade hardware to be given to civilians, but completely outlawing guns is not right.

 

[lucaf]

i dont mean to stereotype americans, but what is wrong with not having a gun? i live in the uk, and we are not allowed guns, and we have lower gun crime. and people keep saying you will be at the mercy of the govornment. im sorry, but what do you think is going to happen? the govornment will suddenly become communazis and enslave you? governments dont do that in stable, rich cointries like the US. it hasnt happened anywere in europe, and tey dont have gunseither

 

[lvl9000_woot]

What makes governments so special that they should have thousands of people armed with them but "civilians" should be completely denied access to them? Governments are made up of people and their actions. They're not magic.

Well, you see, 'civilians' arent as trained with deadly weaponry as military personel are. Guns are an abomination, at least there mostly restricted to the military.

"Well, you see," you're assuming that a person who chooses to purchase a weapon would not undergo training in the handling of one. You're also forgetting to include veterans, who have had just as much training as the people currently serving.

The idea that guns, in and of themselves, are an abomination is absurd. They are inanimate objects which serve as tools. What people do with them is what is important.

Sir i agree with you to no end this is a great statement though i dough it will have much impact in this thread.

I already know that you need training but no matter how trained civies are, there will be 'accidents'. You also have to pass certain tests in the military before you get a gun. People are stupid. Not everybody is, but most are. Guns shouldn't be used at all. Also, a wrench is a tool, scissors are tools, knowledge is a tool. Guns are materialised death. Besides , why do you want a gun?

Triple posting? Really?

Good question. Real men use grenades

 

[credop]

It depends on where you come form. and nice saw gun ^^

 

[HotFezz8]

Ah, yes, another discussion of this topic. Excuse me while I copy/paste my reply to the other thread(s):

The genie is long out of the bottle on firearms, and there's no getting it back in. You could close down all industries related to guns, confiscate and melt down all firearms in the world, burn every book mentioning them, and outlaw all aspects of the knowledge, yet there will be people who remember, or who will rediscover the concept.

If they are ambitious they will gain power through this knowledge. If they are ruthless they can gain a lot of power with it. If they are smart and lucky they can subjugate the world. Who will oppose them, with our rocks, our pointed sticks, and our harsh language? Have we so easily forgotten the errors made after World War I that made World War II inevitable?

Remember too, that though you may depend on law enforcement for protection, they can only offer deterrence; they cannot protect you from the murderer in front of you, for once he pushes past the deterrence that the threat of justice offers, unless there's an officer right there, you're on your own. You may never encounter such a problem in your lifetime, and even if you thought you might, you may still never want to own and use a gun. Such is your right to choose, but so too is the right of another to chose not to accept that limitation.

Crime is a problem, guns are just one of the tools used by criminals, as are cars, cellphones, knives, piano wire, cement, baseball bats, computers, etc. Take away guns, you still have crime. Address the problem, not the tool.

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

\

That reminds me of a story I once heard, though I suspect it isn't true. It goes like this:

A man wakes up at night and sees strangers outside breaking into his garage. He calls the cops and they tell him they have no units in the area but they will try to send someone as soon as they can. In the meantime he should hide. The man waits for a few minutes and then calls the cops back. He tells them, "Don't worry about the burglars, I shot them."

Minutes later the cops come speeding to his house, encounter the intruders, and arrest them. They ask the man, "I thought you said you shot them?"

And the man replies, "I thought you said you couldn't get here on time?"

This is a true story. The man in question was ARRESTED for it. I kid you not, the cops arrested him for wasting their time with a massive response unit. See it wasn't just a car and two cops called out after her rang back, but a chopper and a whole other bunch of other cops. The thieves did shit themselves though.

 

[Bat Vader]

By removing guns from the masses you also remove the need of guns from the masses.
In a gunless society no one needs a gun to defend himself.

Except for the mafia who will undeniably get guns no matter what gun laws are in effect.

Truthfully, I say let people own handguns and hunting rifles and that is it. No need for anything of a higher power unless in the military or national guard.

 

[Captain Pancake]

I think automatic weaponry for civilians is a no no. semi automatic is more agreeable, but ideally they should only be allowed weapons for sports (such as hunting rifles and shotguns for clay pidgeon shooting), rather than any kind of easy to manage killing machine.

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

Thank you. However, times have changed and there is almost no reason for it.

There is a procedure in place to take an amendment off the books you know. Till that procedure is followed then the government can't just magically declare there is no reason for the law and shit all over it. Well, at least in theory cause the government loves to shit over peoples rights whenever it can.

Which... in itself sort of points out the fact there might still a actually be a reason for it....

Maybe we don't need to overthrow the government today, maybe not tomorrow, but if this government already cares so little for the rights of the citizens then who knows what the next one will be like or the one after that.

Anarchist handbook can be your friend.

 

[darrinwright]

Eh, I'm not a big fan of guns myself (and I live in the US), but that 2nd amendment thing would make getting rid of guns extremely difficult.

Myself, I own swords. Lots of them.

 

[Eldarion]

You people realize there is more to criminals than these "they only want your money not your life" versions that exist in your convenient fantasy worlds right?

What are you gonna do about a violent rapist intruding on your home with a shotgun to rape and murder your whole family? You gonna stop him with your fancy martial arts? I don't think so. This is obviously an extreme and unlikely example but keep in mind some criminals DO want to kill you. Or worse.

 

[Skaramine]

By removing guns from the masses you also remove the need of guns from the masses.
In a gunless society no one needs a gun to defend himself.

Gun control -
The theory that a 120-lb woman is morally superior when she is raped, strangled and defiled by a 200-lb man, rather than putting a bullet through his heart with a .38 Special.

*sniffs the air*

Ah, I love the scent of ignorance in the morning.

 

[jamis22]

Most guns in America are illegal to own, like for example Uzi's. Basically any fully automatic weapon is illegal for a normal civilian to own. Plus if we outlawed guns we would have to fight with Texas because they looooove guns. Also America is a democracy and the majority of people want to have some access to guns. Also a lot of our folklore is about the "wild west" and what not. Basically guns are apart of American culture. I saw someone commenting on gangs and how they only use guns to fight against other gangs because they aren't just lying around. A lot of gun crimes are committed with illegal guns, same thing with drugs. Just because its illegal does not stop people from getting their hands on it. A lot of gangs in America are of the same race. America is very diverse and as much as I hate to say it racism occurs often enough in America. Gangs will shoot you just because of your race, I wish they were like the gangs in Denmark, who only fight other gangs. Plus anyway Americans are rebels anyway, so when the world says no guns, America says cool, can we have them?