i don't know about the other ones but fallout, mass effect, and certainly morrowind can't be called original.CmdrGoob said:
Poll: Things JRPGs have that WRPGs can use
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I think the two are simply too distinct.
JRPGs like to build a very Sci-Fi or fantasy setting and nature. If the hero uses swords rather than guns in a sci-fi game, there si not explanation why. You simply run at a man holding a gun and cut him down while he's firing on you. In fallout, you had to scavenge your weapons, so atleast there was a reason to use Melee weapons (conservation of ammo).
JRPS are also typically have the "Random Encounter" thing going for them whereas the Western RPS usually sets you in a massive world with baddies litering it. you don't need to walk around and get into a random battle to fight someone. it feels less forced.
JRPS also work on fixed stats. Sure you can equip various items, but when you level up, each stat usually goes up by a certain amount or, in the odd instance, you get a game like FFX where you have a limited control over what stats to raise, but at level ten, you still have the SAME stats raised as everyone else at level 10. WRPGs give a better variety and allow you to add points to certain stats and customize the character as you choose
JRPGs like to build a very Sci-Fi or fantasy setting and nature. If the hero uses swords rather than guns in a sci-fi game, there si not explanation why. You simply run at a man holding a gun and cut him down while he's firing on you. In fallout, you had to scavenge your weapons, so atleast there was a reason to use Melee weapons (conservation of ammo).
JRPS are also typically have the "Random Encounter" thing going for them whereas the Western RPS usually sets you in a massive world with baddies litering it. you don't need to walk around and get into a random battle to fight someone. it feels less forced.
JRPS also work on fixed stats. Sure you can equip various items, but when you level up, each stat usually goes up by a certain amount or, in the odd instance, you get a game like FFX where you have a limited control over what stats to raise, but at level ten, you still have the SAME stats raised as everyone else at level 10. WRPGs give a better variety and allow you to add points to certain stats and customize the character as you choose
Western fantasy RPGs need to work on original settings. The Great Fantasy Hope of the west is apparently Dragon Age, but the setting for that is, let's face it, a dull as fuck Tolkien/D&D/WHFB clone with a bit of Grimdark paint borrowed from Sapkowski. I'm getting fucking bored with Elves and Dwarves now.
Someone needs to beat them around the head with a copy of the Bas-Lag trilogy. China Mieville has more imagination in his little finger than Bioware do in their entire writing staff.
Someone needs to beat them around the head with a copy of the Bas-Lag trilogy. China Mieville has more imagination in his little finger than Bioware do in their entire writing staff.
The way I see it, they aren't that different anymore. A lot of jRPGs do display enemies on screen, although they still cut into a different screen when the fight actually starts.Celtic_Kerr said:
I do agree though that wRPGs tend to give you more illusion of choices.
But as far as the original topic goes, I don't see why they shouldn't learn from one another. I would love to see wRPGs that doesn't take itself so damn seriously all the time. And an overworld map is sometimes greatly appreciated. An emphasis on the combat rather than stats that you built up is also something form the jRPG side that I really like. And definitely minigames. They can be pretty damn awesome if done well.
At the same time, wRPG's freedom in character creation is great. I like the flexibility to choose what I want to be, and what I want to do. And deviating from Tolkien culture every now and then can be rather refreshing--thank you Mass Effects.
Colour.
I've played alot of Western RPGs and I find it hard to engage interest in them. They strive for so much 'realism' that the game ends up looking brown, grey and green. What's wrong with a bit of exhaderation with colour? You're playing a *game*, not real life.
If I wanted to look at a pretty browny green and greyish countriside I'd look out of my window at some nice mountains. Perhaps the fact I live in a beautiful area means that I crave something different when I play a game. Like a Giant Blue and Orange striped goblin charging at me with a polearm shaped like a fork.
But it is possible to make the game *too* colourful. I'd say Warcraft is the right level. Perhaps a bit less.
A different take on stereotypical fantasy races. Alot of JRPGs have different names for "Elves" and "Humans" and some physical differences. This is a good change. Makes playing a "Human" less boring and unoriginal and gives some credability to the land. I'm sure the evolution of 'Humanity' would be greatly different if it existed along side mythical creature. The chances of humanity evolving to be human at all is amazing.
I've played alot of Western RPGs and I find it hard to engage interest in them. They strive for so much 'realism' that the game ends up looking brown, grey and green. What's wrong with a bit of exhaderation with colour? You're playing a *game*, not real life.
If I wanted to look at a pretty browny green and greyish countriside I'd look out of my window at some nice mountains. Perhaps the fact I live in a beautiful area means that I crave something different when I play a game. Like a Giant Blue and Orange striped goblin charging at me with a polearm shaped like a fork.
But it is possible to make the game *too* colourful. I'd say Warcraft is the right level. Perhaps a bit less.
A different take on stereotypical fantasy races. Alot of JRPGs have different names for "Elves" and "Humans" and some physical differences. This is a good change. Makes playing a "Human" less boring and unoriginal and gives some credability to the land. I'm sure the evolution of 'Humanity' would be greatly different if it existed along side mythical creature. The chances of humanity evolving to be human at all is amazing.
What have you been smoking? Morrowind had one of the most original setting in any RPG, period.roflcopter788 said:
And his assertion was corrected, JRPGs are usually an anarcronistic mashup. This isn't bad, but you can't say that WRPG settings are "unorginal" compared to JRPGs considering the standard of variance between each s almost identical.
Have you ever actually played these games? If Fallout, Mass Effect and Morrowind (Morrowind isn't original? Are you insane?) aren't original, then neither is the Fantasy-Steampunk-Cyberpunk Final Fantasies (that's in relative order, not 'all Final Fantasies are Cyber-steampunk Fantasy'. That WOULD be unique).roflcopter788 said:
Also, have we not got to the stage where slightly steampunk fantasy with Norse gods is getting old now? JRPGs need a new tune.
But Bioware has ALWASY made the Tolkein style games. Alot of their games are actually based off of D&D rules (Neverwinter nights was basically D&D 4th edition and Neverwinter Nights 2 was 6th I believe, but I'm not sure). D&D however, is part of Forgotten Realms and those two "worlds" hold the rights to all their interesting race.olicon said:
Lets take Dragon's ago. You fought Ogres that were darkspawn, but in D&D, Ogres and orcs worked together. A world was created where Orcs were beasts (never actually run into one, though the darkspawn resemble them). In D&D, if an Orc raped a human girl (or a lady orc raped a man... Weird), then you get a half orc...
Tieflings are copyrighted as half-Demons, Drow elves are copyrighted, and then you only really have gnomes and halflings, which I'll admit, I'm not sure why they didn't add them. I suppose they could ask for the rights from D&D, but alot of the originality is gone as most of the races would probably be based off of D&D races.
I'd love to see a new world with new species, but what actually got me down were the classifications of race. In D&D you have Drow, Moon, High and Wood Elves. They all have different specialties. In Dragon Age, they were the same except for background story. Same with the Dwarfs really... If they could build more on the races they had, that might satisfy the masses a bit more
Maybe but I don't think any WRPG player wants to see an angsty ridiculously dressed teen carrying a huge sword or some sort of twirly scythe anywhere near their screen.
Likewise I don't think any JRPG player would like to fight they're way through generic fantasy/space/wasteland world #17 ... that said every JRPG world isn't exactly *unique*. From an outside observer I just have to say they all look the same to me.
I think both genres could learn from one another but you couldn't just take an idea from one or the other and expect it to work.
Likewise I don't think any JRPG player would like to fight they're way through generic fantasy/space/wasteland world #17 ... that said every JRPG world isn't exactly *unique*. From an outside observer I just have to say they all look the same to me.
I think both genres could learn from one another but you couldn't just take an idea from one or the other and expect it to work.
i have played all of these games and i like them well besides mass effect i hate that game and i'm not saying that all jrpg's are original some are but so are some wrpg's but morrowind as much as i love it is just a generic rpg in a medieval setting sure it has weird creatures and stuff but whats the difference between a scrib and a ratChipperz said:
JRPGs fit a particular conformist thread too. All that cyber/steampunk/magic/anime BS that I can't take seriously at all. Just because you're copying Final Fantasy or any number of older similar influences doesn't mean you're being original. You're just covering another mediocre story with a setting that attracts a certain demographic of consumer.GloatingSwine said:
When I play games, I like to be immersed in the reality of it. That's just what I like. I don't need the pointless magic and fantasies to be entertained. Instead of giving me a history of a world I have no connection to, get to the point. Give me something profound instead.
I personally think WRPG's are far more superior to JRPG's. The starter of the thread points out that rpg settings are bit bland. But game-play and choices sytems of western RPG's have far out matched JRPG's who can only come up with nice graphics.
I guess I was using an incorrect word there as well. But overall, I don't quite mean the race. I meant to say that wRPG tends to be stuck with very similar characters and cultures (at least games like Arcanum breaks away with more of a steam punk feel). In that regards, jRPGs also falls into similar trapping. There's the speedy cat girl, the brutish giant, etc. But at least each game tries to have their own interpretation of them.Celtic_Kerr said:
But as you mentioned, another thing that really annoy me is the D&D mechanics.
With jRPG, at least the mechanics are slightly different. Most games are either turn based or has some form of ATB, but they all try to add a little twist. Grandia lets you knock other people's turn back (and so did Atelier Iris), FF changes it up every single iteration, Star Ocean and Tales series goes for action RPG feel, while Suikoden 3 (which is my favorite) went for the pairing system.
When you look at wRPG..well.. Fallout has the same system (albeit with different interface) as Mass Effects, which is the same as Oblivion (or at least very similar), which is the same as KotOR. I'm glad games like Witcher mixed it up quite a bit though.
I'd rather they kept their distance from each other. Cross-contamination is never a good thing.
That said, they each have their strengths... why take it away from them? It's obvious that with one you can't support the other, so you usually have to choose: Freedom or Narrative. Usually the Freedom takes a strong hold in the West because... well... need I really say it? And in the case of Japan and Asia in general... order tends to take a strong hold so it's the Narrative way they go.
I'm not saying either is better than the other, they each have their faults, but that's how it works. What you have here is a cross cultural boundary, but since America is a Melting Pot we have some very nice liberties in regards to what we can enjoy. Japan isn't like that to my knowledge, in fact Japan has a monopoly set up by Sony and Nintendo if I remember correctly. Western thinking is very dangerous for that monopoly, so it explains why the Xbox 360 hasn't done so well or any company based solely outside of Japan. It's really a corporate takeover than anything else.
I'm sure there are gamers over there that love Western RPGs, but due to how Sony and Nintendo handle things over there... I wouldn't be surprised if it's a very low number. Again, I can't confirm this as it's been a few years since I heard that. Enough so that it probably has changed without my knowing.
Although, isn't Square Enix the only one that's taken such a dire interest with the Western Market for Japan, lately?
As for gnomes, gnomes are such a deep lore that the name itself cannot and should not be copywritten. If it is copywritten by D&D, I'm very disappointed considering the fact their origins are not even American.
But that's my irrelevant rant of the day, take it as you may.
That said, they each have their strengths... why take it away from them? It's obvious that with one you can't support the other, so you usually have to choose: Freedom or Narrative. Usually the Freedom takes a strong hold in the West because... well... need I really say it? And in the case of Japan and Asia in general... order tends to take a strong hold so it's the Narrative way they go.
I'm not saying either is better than the other, they each have their faults, but that's how it works. What you have here is a cross cultural boundary, but since America is a Melting Pot we have some very nice liberties in regards to what we can enjoy. Japan isn't like that to my knowledge, in fact Japan has a monopoly set up by Sony and Nintendo if I remember correctly. Western thinking is very dangerous for that monopoly, so it explains why the Xbox 360 hasn't done so well or any company based solely outside of Japan. It's really a corporate takeover than anything else.
I'm sure there are gamers over there that love Western RPGs, but due to how Sony and Nintendo handle things over there... I wouldn't be surprised if it's a very low number. Again, I can't confirm this as it's been a few years since I heard that. Enough so that it probably has changed without my knowing.
Although, isn't Square Enix the only one that's taken such a dire interest with the Western Market for Japan, lately?
For every man, woman and child!XinfiniteX said:
I find this statement amusing. Nothing against you! I just find it humorous because Halflings are basically Hobbits, but they couldn't fork the dough over to the Tolkien Estate in order to use the term so they changed it. That's if I remember it correctly.Celtic_Kerr said:
As for gnomes, gnomes are such a deep lore that the name itself cannot and should not be copywritten. If it is copywritten by D&D, I'm very disappointed considering the fact their origins are not even American.
But that's my irrelevant rant of the day, take it as you may.
Actually, interestingly enough, I believe it's Pippin that says "We're Hobbits!" and when the human just look at them, he says "you know... Halflings?" halflings was the original term used, as they were about half the size of human. I think it's more the use in RPGs that's copy written. I've never seen an RPG even TRY to put Gnomes in their game if it wasn't written with D&D rules.Mr. Grey said: