Poll: Things JRPGs have that WRPGs can use

[GloatingSwine]

I've never seen an RPG even TRY to put Gnomes in their game if it wasn't written with D&D rules.

Sooo, this World of Warcraft then...

The only critters that are actually copyrighted as part of D&D are, if I recall, Illithids and Beholders. All of the rest is public domain because D&D itself copied 99.98% of it's content from somewhere else anyway. (And the Illithids are blatantly nicked from Cthulhu anyway, so they'd have a hard time pushing a claim on them).

 

[Motoko Minato]

Not ugly characters.

In my opinion, WRPGs somehow seem to mess up on how the characters look, unlike JRPGs. I also like the linear narrative style the JRPGs use, because then I'm not playing Mass Effect 70+ hours.

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

Bethesda and Square Enix should make a joint game, I guarantee if the quality was good, everyone in the world who has ever enjoyed a JRPG or WRPG will buy it and love every second of it.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

I've never seen an RPG even TRY to put Gnomes in their game if it wasn't written with D&D rules.

Sooo, this World of Warcraft then...

The only critters that are actually copyrighted as part of D&D are, if I recall, Illithids and Beholders. All of the rest is public domain because D&D itself copied 99.98% of it's content from somewhere else anyway. (And the Illithids are blatantly nicked from Cthulhu anyway, so they'd have a hard time pushing a claim on them).

I did, indeed, miss one then. Thank you very much for the correction! theydid get is from elsewhere, but I don't think anyone called them "Drow Elves" and certain other terms...

My friend was going to try and copright the term "Loot" once. We convinved him that he was an idiot...

 

[Mr. Grey]

Actually, interestingly enough, I believe it's Pippin that says "We're Hobbits!" and when the human just look at them, he says "you know... Halflings?" halflings was the original term used, as they were about half the size of human. I think it's more the use in RPGs that's copy written. I've never seen an RPG even TRY to put Gnomes in their game if it wasn't written with D&D rules.

Well I'll be, you're right. That term was used... maybe it had something to do with the book The Hobbit, but I doubt it.

As for the case of Gnomes, that is sad... because they truly are such a fascinating race full of potential.

Maybe Warcraft counts, but I can't remember playing the original Warcraft. World of Warcraft uses them, but I don't know if that counts since I believe they have a system that functions not to dissimilar from D&D hidden beneath it to account for damage and the like.

 

[CmdrGoob]

JRPGs have more original settings? Seems to me like fully half of them have generic worlds that are an anachronistic melange of fantasy and sci-fi. Between eg. Planescape, VTMB, Mass Effect, Fallout, Morrowind, Arcanum etc there are tons of distinct original settings. I'd say they've got as much if not more originality in setting than JRPGs.

i don't know about the other ones but fallout, mass effect, and certainly morrowind can't be called original.

You must have a pretty goddamn hardcore definition of original setting then. Jesus, I don't know what games would have an original setting by your twisted definition.

 

[Humble85]

JRPGs have more original settings? Seems to me like fully half of them have generic worlds that are an anachronistic melange of fantasy and sci-fi. Between eg. Planescape, VTMB, Mass Effect, Fallout, Morrowind, Arcanum etc there are tons of distinct original settings. I'd say they've got as much if not more originality in setting than JRPGs.

THIS. As far as I remember, JRPGs mostly have settings that are overly stylistic, but lack substance, at least in the sense of plausability. Having a post-apocalyptical wasteland with green mutants and a strange FEV-virus, or a victorian setting with elves and magic, is one thing; but carrying around a sword as large as yourself, or wielding somekind of gun/sword, or having a castle crawling through the desert - that is more style than substance.
As far as original settings go, I dont find JRPGs that original. It is always the same formular of some sci-fi/steampunk world where everybody carries around swords despite having super huge guns available. As far as original characters are concerned, I'd advise JRPGs to stop making protagonist that look like a 17year old girl.

 

[BodomBeachChild]

Ehhh...i dont really like the whole WRPG genre, because they normally come down to one super strong dude vs THE WORLD.

Change "one super strong dude" with "group of super strong dudes/dudetes" Then you got your JRPG.

I fail to see any valid point in this sentence.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I love both genres, but for the love of god they both don't try and vary their ideas too much anymore. I've only been sticking more with WRPGS because they give more freedom and the modding you can do on PC.

I'm tired of the same stories coming from both sides of the world though. Over here, "only you can stop the legions of darkness by yourself with your giant steel balls and testosterone injected battle axe." Over there, "You may only have just hit puberty but by divine whatever you and your friends can save the world with love and big fraking swords. Until we come to the US and we pump our characters with steroids to please stereotypes."

 

[GloatingSwine]

Maybe Warcraft counts, but I can't remember playing the original Warcraft. World of Warcraft uses them, but I don't know if that counts since I believe they have a system that functions not to dissimilar from D&D hidden beneath it to account for damage and the like.

Gnomes first appeared in Warcraft in, IIRC, Warcraft 2 or 3. And no, WoW is nothing like D&D, unless you think "has hitpoints and to hit rolls" is "like D&D", in which case every game ever is like D&D and you've just broadened the definition into uselessness.

I did, indeed, miss one then. Thank you very much for the correction! theydid get is from elsewhere, but I don't think anyone called them "Drow Elves" and certain other terms...

No, no-one else uses the name Drow, but there are a million and one properties with Dark Elves in them, and they're all descended from norse and old english myth via Tolkien (though he only had one Dark Elf, who only appears in the Silmarillion).

 

[Mr. Grey]

Maybe Warcraft counts, but I can't remember playing the original Warcraft. World of Warcraft uses them, but I don't know if that counts since I believe they have a system that functions not to dissimilar from D&D hidden beneath it to account for damage and the like.

Gnomes first appeared in Warcraft in, IIRC, Warcraft 2 or 3. And no, WoW is nothing like D&D, unless you think "has hitpoints and to hit rolls" is "like D&D", in which case every game ever is like D&D and you've just broadened the definition into uselessness.

I was actually thinking about the mechanics of which is going on more than the atmosphere involved. If it's the character creation, the stories involved and the general feel of it, then yes... it isn't anything like D&D. I never played it, but from what I've heard it's simply astounding and it's no wonder a video game can't follow its every aspect.

I didn't know that was what we were talking about, however. I thought we were just talking about mechanics that made it similar in which case the combat sort of is since it has a die rolling for evasion and hit. Pressing each button for a spell or skill is like saying you are attempting to do so as you roll and the computer rolls for the NPC. These kinds of things.

But yes, in its entirety it is nothing like D&D.

I appreciate you informing about the Gnomes, though, thank you.

 

[Petromir]

No, no-one else uses the name Drow, but there are a million and one properties with Dark Elves in them, and they're all descended from norse and old english myth via Tolkien (though he only had one Dark Elf, who only appears in the Silmarillion).

Depends on which of Tolikien's writings you read, but the origins of the Orcs put forward in the Silmarillion is that the Orcs were created by subjecting elves to unspeacable torture, being a therefre descriable as Dark Elves of a kind.

 

[GloatingSwine]

No, no-one else uses the name Drow, but there are a million and one properties with Dark Elves in them, and they're all descended from norse and old english myth via Tolkien (though he only had one Dark Elf, who only appears in the Silmarillion).

Depends on which of Tolikien's writings you read, but the origins of the Orcs put forward in the Silmarillion is that the Orcs were created by subjecting elves to unspeacable torture, being a therefre descriable as Dark Elves of a kind.

The Silmarillion also has a dude called the Dark Elf. I recall him living in a cave or otherwise underground, thereby marking him as a bit of a weirdo in Elf circles.

 

[Erana]

*sighs*
Why'd you have to bring up FF7? That game always gets under my skin, and its harder to make rational contibutions...
Nevertheless, I think what you're looking at there is the variety that's encouraged in, well honestly, most Japanese games in general that are more often discouraged in Western games. "Yes, you can have scary dungeon in the middle of realism ruins, but you can also have pretty groves of flowers in realism prairie!" is about the extent of a lotta wrpg games. There are some notable exceptions to this, like World of Warcraft, of course. A lotta WRPG developers generally just feel like they have to go after immersion, meaning to them that they have to be consistent in order to keep up the illusion. Many people in the West also seem to feel like having a dramatic difference in locations is an archaic throwback to, "The ice level! The sewer level! The fire level! The forest level! The Cloud level!" stuff of yesteryear.
Different dev. philosiphies.

 

[Najos]

or having a castle crawling through the desert - that is more style than substance.

Er, what's wrong with castles in the desert?

 

[HK_01]

Nothing comes to mind, really. really can't think of any JRPG elements that would improve WRPGs.

 

[Battenbergcake]

Ohhh i love this thread, i can feel the hate oozeing out of every orifice.

i know this is like throwing a match onto a petrol drench box of pocky but:

 

[Jake the Snake]

I refuse to take JRPGs seriously because they kind of fail in regards to the ROLE PLAYING aspect of the game. Also, the translation and characters are so ridiculous at times they're impossible to relate to.

In regards to setting, any setting can be "mind blowing", and even if its not, if the games immersive and you feel like a part of the world, what does it matter? The RPG has accomplished what it set out to do. The games want you to have fun, sorry if SPACE hundreds of years in the future with aliens that each have personal, social and political issues they need sorting out isn't interesting enough for you.

The two I think are too different, and if they tried to take other things from each other, the result would actually be less than great. Japanese role players know what they want in an RPG and Western role players know what they want.

Bioware makes the best RPGs in the business. Period. There's nothing JRPGs have that they need to use.

 

[Humble85]

or having a castle crawling through the desert - that is more style than substance.

Er, what's wrong with castles in the desert?

Err...ever thought about it? Building a castle..on sand ? You know the expression, "dont build on sand"? But, that wasnt even my point...it was the fact, that said castle could crawl underground, beneath the desert, beneath mountains, and come out on top top on the other side of the continent. dont get me wrong, I fucking loved that castle, but if you ever DMed yourself you know you should be able to atleast have half an explanation of how it works. Suspension of Disbelief only goes so far...

 

[Najos]

or having a castle crawling through the desert - that is more style than substance.

Er, what's wrong with castles in the desert?

Err...ever thought about it? Building a castle..on sand ? You know the expression, "dont build on sand"? But, that wasnt even my point...it was the fact, that said castle could crawl underground, beneath the desert, beneath mountains, and come out on top top on the other side of the continent. dont get me wrong, I fucking loved that castle, but if you ever DMed yourself you know you should be able to atleast have half an explanation of how it works. Suspension of Disbelief only goes so far...

Yeah, so I just thought about it.

Edit: I get coming out on the other side of the continent and such, but building castles on sand is perfectly reasonable. Building tunnels underneath sand is reasonable as well. Difficult, but definitely possible.