Poll: This needs a dedicated thread. What to do with R&P?

[Baffle]

Keep it. I doubt anyone in there will ever change anyone else's mind, but it's good to see what other people are thinking and why. Could do with being a little less US-centric, but that's obviously a user issue.

 

[vallorn]

What's wrong with keeping it around?

That's kind of the point of this thread (and poll), it's a divisive topic which polarizes the userbase HARD even with more moderate options given. So people should at least be able to talk about it.

 

[vallorn]

Oh, and remember everyone.

attacks on forum users are not allowed

I notice some people are skirting close to (Or over) that line, so I'll just quote Geth's post in this thread to remind people either way. Just doing my civic duty friends.

 

[Basement Cat]

Russ intends to keep R&P. He told us R&P has a place and a community needs an outlet for that kind of talk.

We'll be keeping the R&P forum where folks shall continue to be free to post and bicker, etc.

It's frankly an absolute necessity: The Religion and Politics forum was created specifically to compartmentalize threads about such topics away from the Off Topic forum where they tended to clutter up the front pages and annoy Escapists who weren't vaguely interested in such subjects on a gaming site.

And because R&P routinely deals with topics that inflame many people the forum's threads were further isolated by not showing up on the Hot Thread Topic box on the front page.

Furthermore Gethsemani is right about the state of the current forum. It is in better shape than it's been in for some time.

I'll tell you a secret, too: When I joined years ago R&P had a reputation for being a lair of "scum and villainy". Most of those who were here 6 years ago are long, long gone.

Did new posters replace them? Yes.

Are those new posters inherently "scummy and villainous"?

Frankly, no more than their predecessors. You see, the R&P forum's reputation is infamous and shall remain so...whether its respective posters deserve a bad reputation or not.

R&P forums tend to be vilified as a routine matter of course. But the Escapist's R&P forum isn't going anywhere.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

What's wrong with R&P?

If things just get too heated,takea step back, play some games, or ideally study like I should be doing now these weekend nights ... or experiment drawing ponies with your new XP PEN tablet device...

I still haven't gotten used to all the buttons and the wheel thing, but it's actualy pretty neat. I like it. A good way to blow $130.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Russ intends to keep R&P. He told us R&P has a place and a community needs an outlet for that kind of talk.

We'll be keeping the R&P forum where folks shall continue to be free to post and bicker, etc.

It's frankly an absolute necessity: The Religion and Politics forum was created specifically to compartmentalize threads about such topics away from the Off Topic forum where they tended to clutter up the front pages and annoy Escapists who weren't vaguely interested in such subjects on a gaming site.

And because R&P routinely deals with topics that inflame many people the forum's threads were further isolated by not showing up on the Hot Thread Topic box on the front page.

Furthermore Gethsemani is right about the state of the current forum. It is in better shape than it's been in for some time.

I'll tell you a secret, too: When I joined years ago R&P had a reputation for being a lair of "scum and villainy". Most of those who were here 6 years ago are long, long gone.

Did new posters replace them? Yes.

Are those new posters inherently "scummy and villainous"?

Frankly, no more than their predecessors. You see, the R&P forum's reputation is infamous and shall remain so...whether its respective posters deserve a bad reputation or not.

R&P forums tend to be vilified as a routine matter of course. But the Escapist's R&P forum isn't going anywhere.

That's Russ' prerogative, however in my mind a site called "The Escapist" should provide an escape from such BS. Of course over the years it has repeatedly failed to do so. ...even without R&P

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Russ intends to keep R&P. He told us R&P has a place and a community needs an outlet for that kind of talk.

We'll be keeping the R&P forum where folks shall continue to be free to post and bicker, etc.

It's frankly an absolute necessity: The Religion and Politics forum was created specifically to compartmentalize threads about such topics away from the Off Topic forum where they tended to clutter up the front pages and annoy Escapists who weren't vaguely interested in such subjects on a gaming site.

And because R&P routinely deals with topics that inflame many people the forum's threads were further isolated by not showing up on the Hot Thread Topic box on the front page.

Furthermore Gethsemani is right about the state of the current forum. It is in better shape than it's been in for some time.

I'll tell you a secret, too: When I joined years ago R&P had a reputation for being a lair of "scum and villainy". Most of those who were here 6 years ago are long, long gone.

Did new posters replace them? Yes.

Are those new posters inherently "scummy and villainous"?

Frankly, no more than their predecessors. You see, the R&P forum's reputation is infamous and shall remain so...whether its respective posters deserve a bad reputation or not.

R&P forums tend to be vilified as a routine matter of course. But the Escapist's R&P forum isn't going anywhere.

That's Russ' prerogative, however in my mind a site called "The Escapist" should provide an escape from such BS. Of course over the years it has repeatedly failed to do so. ...even without R&P

You don't have to click or post on it... Getting rid of R&P will just kill the total poster pool. I doubt more people will return simply because you ixnay a forum that was entirely elective to begin with.

Surely you should be increasing total access and exposure, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Russ intends to keep R&P. He told us R&P has a place and a community needs an outlet for that kind of talk.

We'll be keeping the R&P forum where folks shall continue to be free to post and bicker, etc.

It's frankly an absolute necessity: The Religion and Politics forum was created specifically to compartmentalize threads about such topics away from the Off Topic forum where they tended to clutter up the front pages and annoy Escapists who weren't vaguely interested in such subjects on a gaming site.

And because R&P routinely deals with topics that inflame many people the forum's threads were further isolated by not showing up on the Hot Thread Topic box on the front page.

Furthermore Gethsemani is right about the state of the current forum. It is in better shape than it's been in for some time.

I'll tell you a secret, too: When I joined years ago R&P had a reputation for being a lair of "scum and villainy". Most of those who were here 6 years ago are long, long gone.

Did new posters replace them? Yes.

Are those new posters inherently "scummy and villainous"?

Frankly, no more than their predecessors. You see, the R&P forum's reputation is infamous and shall remain so...whether its respective posters deserve a bad reputation or not.

R&P forums tend to be vilified as a routine matter of course. But the Escapist's R&P forum isn't going anywhere.

That's Russ' prerogative, however in my mind a site called "The Escapist" should provide an escape from such BS. Of course over the years it has repeatedly failed to do so. ...even without R&P

You don't have to click or post on it... Getting rid of R&P will just kill the total poster pool. I doubt more people will return simply because you ixnay a forum that was entirely elective to begin with.

Surely you should be increasing total access and exposure, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

Will it? That's kinda sad really. Why would you come to a gaming and media site to discuss politics? Aren't there places specifically for discussing that garbage like Twitter or Reddit?

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

I do not think I can state this enough.

There is so much value to Religion and Politics that it outweighs any uncomfortableness. For the simple fact that people are willingly putting themselves in Echo Chambers or Information Vacuums. We need to see that there are other points of views. We need to realize there's never a one size fits all solution. What will work for us will not work for the world. Expressing these differences is the first step.

That's Russ' prerogative, however in my mind a site called "The Escapist" should provide an escape from such BS. Of course over the years it has repeatedly failed to do so. ...even without R&P

But you're defining what Escapism is for everyone. Escapism for some is what you're talking about. For others, it is all various concepts that might not interest you and me. And the Escapist provided designated places for people to experience those concepts, and for people to avoid.

Do you know what's Escapism for me? Intelligent discourse. Something that I actually lack in my real life given that, again, everyone is afraid of talking about something. That's stifling. It's scary. Beneficial change can only come from understanding the problems we face.

And that isn't for you, at least when it comes to Religion and Politics. That's fine. I get that. Maybe you'd find more solace in the Publisher's Club section of the forums. I receive no benefit nor do I have any urge to see what it's about, so I stay out of it... But just because I can't perceive a benefit doesn't mean it has to go. Just because it doesn't aid in my personal escapism doesn't mean it wasn't profoundly impactful for someone else on the forums.

This is inching dangerously closer to closer to a censorship mentality. And that's not who we are, nor we can allow ourselves to be. I feel in my heart that I know that isn't who you are.

We must strive for tolerance, allow the different and the distasteful (albeit not harmful to the masses) in order to protect all speech. There are several people I disagree with on this forum, and yet I will desperately fight for their ability to speak as long as they are within the rules set forth by Russ Pitts, the Mods of the Escapist, and the guidelines.

 

[vallorn]

Russ intends to keep R&P. He told us R&P has a place and a community needs an outlet for that kind of talk.

We'll be keeping the R&P forum where folks shall continue to be free to post and bicker, etc.

It's frankly an absolute necessity: The Religion and Politics forum was created specifically to compartmentalize threads about such topics away from the Off Topic forum where they tended to clutter up the front pages and annoy Escapists who weren't vaguely interested in such subjects on a gaming site.

And because R&P routinely deals with topics that inflame many people the forum's threads were further isolated by not showing up on the Hot Thread Topic box on the front page.

Furthermore Gethsemani is right about the state of the current forum. It is in better shape than it's been in for some time.

I'll tell you a secret, too: When I joined years ago R&P had a reputation for being a lair of "scum and villainy". Most of those who were here 6 years ago are long, long gone.

Did new posters replace them? Yes.

Are those new posters inherently "scummy and villainous"?

Frankly, no more than their predecessors. You see, the R&P forum's reputation is infamous and shall remain so...whether its respective posters deserve a bad reputation or not.

R&P forums tend to be vilified as a routine matter of course. But the Escapist's R&P forum isn't going anywhere.

Exactly. It's not the people exactly that are the issue, it's the behaviors and grudges encouraged by R&P. R&P itself is the problem which should be excised like a tumour. It's already metastasized somewhat but with a good course of rules based chemotherapy it can be tamped out.

 

[Satinavian]

Will it? That's kinda sad really. Why would you come to a gaming and media site to discuss politics? Aren't there places specifically for discussing that garbage like Twitter or Reddit?

No.

Twitter is not useful for discussions. It is only useful to fling short insults at your opponent. And reddid seems to be more a collection of echo chambers, complete with the tribal warfare between them.

Both are utterly useless to discuss politics.

And oldfashioned forums that allow those discussions and still have a diverse membership are not really that common. In fact that this here is a gaming community helps a lot with the diversity angle, providing members from very different political leanings and very different countries which just happen to share a common hobby.


I mean, originally i did come here for the games (and for Miracle of Sound and i also liked the comics). But most of the discussions are about platforms i don't use and genres i am not that interested in. Would the Gaming discussion be enough to keep me logging in daily ? I doubt it.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Exactly. It's not the people exactly that are the issue, it's the behaviors and grudges encouraged by R&P. R&P itself is the problem which should be excised like a tumour. It's already metastasized somewhat but with a good course of rules based chemotherapy it can be tamped out.

I have to disagree.

As a lot of you know, I frequent R&P. I've never saw eye to eye with Zontar on any political issues. We've never hurled insults to each other. I never felt like reporting him. I don't even dislike him. I mean, we have gaming in common, so we might have other things. I don't know.

But I make a choice to think this way. You, yourself, state that you have grudges and people have grudges with you stemming from there. And you and them are constantly making a choice not to reach out to the other person and say "Hey, can we squash this?". The R&P forums are just as important as Race, Creed, Gender, and Sexuality when it comes to how we as individuals interact with one another: It's an excuse.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

That's Russ' prerogative, however in my mind a site called "The Escapist" should provide an escape from such BS. Of course over the years it has repeatedly failed to do so. ...even without R&P

But you're defining what Escapism is for everyone. Escapism for some is what you're talking about. For others, it is all various concepts that might not interest you and me. And the Escapist provided designated places for people to experience those concepts, and for people to avoid.

Do you know what's Escapism for me? Intelligent discourse. Something that I actually lack in my real life given that, again, everyone is afraid of talking about something. That's stifling. It's scary. Beneficial change can only come from understanding the problems we face.

And that isn't for you, at least when it comes to Religion and Politics. That's fine. I get that. Maybe you'd find more solace in the Publisher's Club section of the forums. I receive no benefit nor do I have any urge to see what it's about, so I stay out of it... But just because I can't perceive a benefit doesn't mean it has to go. Just because it doesn't aid in my personal escapism doesn't mean it wasn't profoundly impactful for someone else on the forums.

This is inching dangerously closer to closer to a censorship mentality. And that's not who we are, nor we can allow ourselves to be. I feel in my heart that I know that isn't who you are.

We must strive for tolerance, allow the different and the distasteful (albeit not harmful to the masses) in order to protect all speech. There are several people I disagree with on this forum, and yet I will desperately fight for their ability to speak as long as they are within the rules set forth by Russ Pitts, the Mods of the Escapist, and the guidelines.

No, I was saying what escapism mean to me. That's why I used the words "in my mind."
I don't know what other people are suggesting because I'm not reading each and every other post, but I'm not suggesting any such censorship mentality.

Will it? That's kinda sad really. Why would you come to a gaming and media site to discuss politics? Aren't there places specifically for discussing that garbage like Twitter or Reddit?

No.

Twitter is not useful for discussions. It is only useful to fling short insults at your opponent. And reddid seems to be more a collection of echo chambers, complete with the tribal warfare between them.

Both are utterly useless to discuss politics.

And oldfashioned forums that allow those discussions and still have a diverse membership are not really that common. In fact that this here is a gaming community helps a lot with the diversity angle, providing members from very different political leanings and very different countries which just happen to share a common hobby.


I mean, originally i did come here for the games (and for Miracle of Sound and i also liked the comics). But most of the discussions are about platforms i don't use and genres i am not that interested in. Would the Gaming discussion be enough to keep me logging in daily ? I doubt it.

Twitter and Reddit are only the first 2 examples I thought of off the top of my head. There are other places I'm sure, like Disqus. It doesn't matter anyway because I can't imagine there is anywhere on the internet that Politics and Religion can be discussed in a civilized manner, here included.

 

[Basement Cat]

Exactly. It's not the people exactly that are the issue, it's the behaviors and grudges encouraged by R&P. R&P itself is the problem which should be excised like a tumour. It's already metastasized somewhat but with a good course of rules based chemotherapy it can be tamped out.

You assert that people's negative behaviors and grudges are inevitably encouraged by the forum's reputation. You then take this hypothesis as sufficient reason to "excise" the forum itself.

Such an assertion seems presumptuous in that it inherently reduces posters to being easily influenced sheep. The following logic directing the removal of the forum itself is weak. Are you sure you wrote what you meant to convey?

 

[Signa]

Snip

Christ do you really have a hard-on for something that doesn't actually affect you...

I'll be sure to mention that to the next American I see that is upset about the rain forest, animal rights, the polar ice caps melting, pandas, racism at starbucks, transphobia, murder rates in Detroit, FGM, and what Trump said on Twitter.

The point is, there's plenty to be upset about that doesn't effect you.

 

[Anti-American Eagle]

I say leave it be. Much like the wild west it was one of the few reasons I kept coming back to the site if for no other reason than to take a couple minutes to go over the latest shit show.

I mean. Do people really want the site to go down the path where it deletes the hated flavour of the month?

I had a thread I made to liven things up briefly. I had no expectation it would last long. It wasn't serious. It existed for levity. It was immediately locked and recently it was deleted entirely. I don't like where this site is heading and if it goes much further there's a good chance I stop giving a shit entirely and never come back. I don't have many sites I'd call home, but the escapist isn't the only one anymore.

 

[Saelune]

Russ intends to keep R&P. He told us R&P has a place and a community needs an outlet for that kind of talk.

We'll be keeping the R&P forum where folks shall continue to be free to post and bicker, etc.

It's frankly an absolute necessity: The Religion and Politics forum was created specifically to compartmentalize threads about such topics away from the Off Topic forum where they tended to clutter up the front pages and annoy Escapists who weren't vaguely interested in such subjects on a gaming site.

And because R&P routinely deals with topics that inflame many people the forum's threads were further isolated by not showing up on the Hot Thread Topic box on the front page.

Furthermore Gethsemani is right about the state of the current forum. It is in better shape than it's been in for some time.

I'll tell you a secret, too: When I joined years ago R&P has a reputation for being a lair of "scum and villainy". Most of those who were here 6 years ago are long, long gone.

Did new posters replace them? Yes.

Are those new posters inherently "scummy and villainous"?

Frankly, no more than their predecessors. You see, the R&P forum's reputation is infamous and shall remain so...whether its respective posters deserve a bad reputation or not.

R&P forums tend to be vilified as a routine matter of course. But the Escapist's R&P forum isn't going anywhere.

That's Russ' prerogative, however in my mind a site called "The Escapist" should provide an escape from such BS. Of course over the years it has repeatedly failed to do so. ...even without R&P

You don't have to click or post on it... Getting rid of R&P will just kill the total poster pool. I doubt more people will return simply because you ixnay a forum that was entirely elective to begin with.

Surely you should be increasing total access and exposure, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

Will it? That's kinda sad really. Why would you come to a gaming and media site to discuss politics? Aren't there places specifically for discussing that garbage like Twitter or Reddit?

Twitter isn't for discussion and reddit might as well be 'echochamber.com'.

 

[Saelune]

Snip

Christ do you really have a hard-on for something that doesn't actually affect you...

I'll be sure to mention that to the next American I see that is upset about the rain forest, animal rights, the polar ice caps melting, pandas, racism at starbucks, transphobia, murder rates in Detroit, FGM, and what Trump said on Twitter.

The point is, there's plenty to be upset about that doesn't effect you.

Except those things DO effect us. A shitty society effects us all. And ya know what? Maybe Avnger is wrong, it does effect vallorn, but not in the way vallorn thinks. vallorn lives in this world along with the rest of us, and though they may not appreciate the state of the world and those who get neck deep in topics of politics, doesn't mean it doesn't effect them.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Russ intends to keep R&P. He told us R&P has a place and a community needs an outlet for that kind of talk.

We'll be keeping the R&P forum where folks shall continue to be free to post and bicker, etc.

It's frankly an absolute necessity: The Religion and Politics forum was created specifically to compartmentalize threads about such topics away from the Off Topic forum where they tended to clutter up the front pages and annoy Escapists who weren't vaguely interested in such subjects on a gaming site.

And because R&P routinely deals with topics that inflame many people the forum's threads were further isolated by not showing up on the Hot Thread Topic box on the front page.

Furthermore Gethsemani is right about the state of the current forum. It is in better shape than it's been in for some time.

I'll tell you a secret, too: When I joined years ago R&P has a reputation for being a lair of "scum and villainy". Most of those who were here 6 years ago are long, long gone.

Did new posters replace them? Yes.

Are those new posters inherently "scummy and villainous"?

Frankly, no more than their predecessors. You see, the R&P forum's reputation is infamous and shall remain so...whether its respective posters deserve a bad reputation or not.

R&P forums tend to be vilified as a routine matter of course. But the Escapist's R&P forum isn't going anywhere.

That's Russ' prerogative, however in my mind a site called "The Escapist" should provide an escape from such BS. Of course over the years it has repeatedly failed to do so. ...even without R&P

You don't have to click or post on it... Getting rid of R&P will just kill the total poster pool. I doubt more people will return simply because you ixnay a forum that was entirely elective to begin with.

Surely you should be increasing total access and exposure, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

Will it? That's kinda sad really. Why would you come to a gaming and media site to discuss politics? Aren't there places specifically for discussing that garbage like Twitter or Reddit?

Twitter isn't for discussion and reddit might as well be 'echochamber.com'.

How is R&P any different?

 

[Pseudonym]

Twitter isn't for discussion and reddit might as well be 'echochamber.com'.

How is R&P any different?

It doesn't have a 140 character limit allowing for people to take an amount of words appropriate for communicating things with some measure of nuance and explanation and it has people with differing views in it. Yes, it leans leftwing but Zontar and CM156 are still around as well.