Poll: Time for a general election?

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secretsantaone

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Mar 9, 2009
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You seem to think Brown must hold the powers of foresight. To somehow predict the global recession and save us from it.

I wonder, can you find me a perfect PM in the whole of British history?

Even Churchill had his faults

I agree that Brown may not be the best man to lead the country anymore, largely due to loss of respect, but to suggest he's an incompetant fuckwit with no intelligence whatsoever is just plain insulting.

Brown won't be remembered for fucking up the country, he just won't be remembered at all.
 

jdnoth

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Sep 3, 2008
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The political state of things is pretty sad in the UK. People are incredibly uninformed as to which party stands for what, and will just jump between labour and tories every decade or so, failing to grasp that they are both pretty much the same.

Politicians are opportunistic by nature. If they have any hope of achieving power, they will pander endlessly to the interests of the corporate entities that own 90% of our media, and disregard what the people actually want. Save perhaps a few pretty slogans and empty promises. See: Barack Obama.
 

jdnoth

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Sep 3, 2008
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EMFCRACKSHOT said:
I cant stand left wing or centre left policy though. Its all lets make everybody happy half measures.
Democratizing workplaces? Proportional representation? Nuclear disarmament? Protection of civil liberties? Pah. Sounds like a typical bunch of do-nothing lefty half measures to me.

I have a strange feeling you aren't anywhere near as informed as you think you are.
 

EMFCRACKSHOT

Not quite Cthulhu
May 25, 2009
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jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
I cant stand left wing or centre left policy though. Its all lets make everybody happy half measures.
Democratizing workplaces? Proportional representation? Nuclear disarmament? Protection of civil liberties? Pah. Sounds like a typical bunch of do-nothing lefty half measures to me.

I have a strange feeling you aren't anywhere near as informed as you think you are.
Protection of civil liberties=placing one persons rights against the security of the nation. I would happily sacriice civil liberties if it meant tougher action on criminals and terrorists.
Proportional representation, especially in this country would only produce a wave of inneficient coalitions. We would have no strong government and much less would be accomplished.
Nuclear disarmament=massive increase in convetional warfare. You really think countries like North Korea, Iran etc would just stay peacefull if they knew they wouldn't be anhialated.
Democratizing the workplace=an okay policy, nothing special but okay
 

jdnoth

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Sep 3, 2008
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EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
I cant stand left wing or centre left policy though. Its all lets make everybody happy half measures.
Democratizing workplaces? Proportional representation? Nuclear disarmament? Protection of civil liberties? Pah. Sounds like a typical bunch of do-nothing lefty half measures to me.

I have a strange feeling you aren't anywhere near as informed as you think you are.
Protection of civil liberties=placing one persons rights against the security of the nation. I would happily sacriice civil liberties if it meant tougher action on criminals and terrorists.
Proportional representation, especially in this country would only produce a wave of inneficient coalitions. We would have no strong government and much less would be accomplished.
Nuclear disarmament=massive increase in convetional warfare. You really think countries like North Korea, Iran etc would just stay peacefull if they knew they wouldn't be anhialated.
Democratizing the workplace=an okay policy, nothing special but okay
Thanks for the laugh, student.
 

Spanner207

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May 31, 2009
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Im not very big on the conservatives, and if brown did call an election its pretty obvious they would get in, and with Boris as mayor and Cameron as PM, there could be irreversible changes made similar to what thatcher did to britain.
Having said that, it will be good for labour to go into opposition for a while, they seriously need to sort out their agenda because with them all divided the country wont run proparly.
Even having said that however, anyone will be better than the sodding BNP!
 

jdnoth

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Sep 3, 2008
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EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
Thanks for the laugh, student.
Problem?
Oh no. Not with me anyway. For someone who obviously likes talking abbout politics you have quite a narrow and shallow political spectrum don't you? Very typical of a politics student.

I'll address the original post in a few minutes,
 

jdnoth

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Sep 3, 2008
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EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
I cant stand left wing or centre left policy though. Its all lets make everybody happy half measures.
Democratizing workplaces? Proportional representation? Nuclear disarmament? Protection of civil liberties? Pah. Sounds like a typical bunch of do-nothing lefty half measures to me.

I have a strange feeling you aren't anywhere near as informed as you think you are.
Protection of civil liberties=placing one persons rights against the security of the nation. I would happily sacriice civil liberties if it meant tougher action on criminals and terrorists.
Proportional representation, especially in this country would only produce a wave of inneficient coalitions. We would have no strong government and much less would be accomplished.
Nuclear disarmament=massive increase in convetional warfare. You really think countries like North Korea, Iran etc would just stay peacefull if they knew they wouldn't be anhialated.
Democratizing the workplace=an okay policy, nothing special but okay
First of all, in regards to your little Jacqui Smith argument against civil liberties: It is observable to the dimmest observer that the clamps proposed on civil liberties are totally useless on fighting terrorism. They might have some effect if terrorists were typically foreign, but so far all western terror attacks have been commited by citizens of the country they were attacking. So it's a null point. In addition to this; CCTV cameras are reported to have been utlized in only around 2% of sentencing procedures. The arguments wear very thing.

Your claim that proportional representation would lead to a weaker government is so absurd i'm getting a bit of a headache thinking about how seriously you take yourself when you say this shit. Proportional Representation is a voting system that simply gives a more accurate corrolation between how many votes a candidate recieves and how many seats they recieve. So it would in fact lead to a more democratic government. But if you really favour party uniformity and government power over the alleged "inneficient" individual democracy, may I suggest you look up a political philosopher named Joseph Stalin. His theories should be right up your alley.

North Korea and Iran aren't going to start bombing for shits and giggles. Iran have been pretty clear in their motivations for pursuing nuclear weapons, in that they felt a need to provide a counterbalance to the constant military threat posed by Israel and the United States. Both being armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons, and consistent aggressors against Iran. Which is why in response to the "threat" from Iran, Obama has sought Israel to make a series of appeasements, one of which has been to get rid of their nuclear weapons. North Korea's nuclear deterrent can be explained in the same way. Interesting to note that during the cold war the world came very close, numerous times to complete annihilation by the accidental deployment of nukes. Please provide some evidence for your absurd claim that getting rid of nuclear weapons would lead to more war.

Think more.
 

timmytom1

New member
Feb 26, 2009
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WrongSprite said:
Calling an election now is a terrible idea. They countries in a turmoil as it is, this isn't the right time to bring in an inexperienced leader. Gordon Brown is a good guy caught up in bad times.

If the tories get in, I'm seriously leaving the country.
If the BNP get in, I'll join a resistance movement and die fighting.
This
 

EMFCRACKSHOT

Not quite Cthulhu
May 25, 2009
2,973
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jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
I cant stand left wing or centre left policy though. Its all lets make everybody happy half measures.
Democratizing workplaces? Proportional representation? Nuclear disarmament? Protection of civil liberties? Pah. Sounds like a typical bunch of do-nothing lefty half measures to me.

I have a strange feeling you aren't anywhere near as informed as you think you are.
Protection of civil liberties=placing one persons rights against the security of the nation. I would happily sacriice civil liberties if it meant tougher action on criminals and terrorists.
Proportional representation, especially in this country would only produce a wave of inneficient coalitions. We would have no strong government and much less would be accomplished.
Nuclear disarmament=massive increase in convetional warfare. You really think countries like North Korea, Iran etc would just stay peacefull if they knew they wouldn't be anhialated.
Democratizing the workplace=an okay policy, nothing special but okay
First of all, in regards to your little Jacqui Smith argument against civil liberties: It is observable to the dimmest observer that the clamps proposed on civil liberties are totally useless on fighting terrorism. They might have some effect if terrorists were typically foreign, but so far all western terror attacks have been commited by citizens of the country they were attacking. So it's a null point. In addition to this; CCTV cameras are reported to have been utlized in only around 2% of sentencing procedures. The arguments wear very thing.

Your claim that proportional representation would lead to a weaker government is so absurd i'm getting a bit of a headache thinking about how seriously you take yourself when you say this shit. Proportional Representation is a voting system that simply gives a more accurate corrolation between how many votes a candidate recieves and how many seats they recieve. So it would in fact lead to a more democratic government. But if you really favour party uniformity and government power over the alleged "inneficient" individual democracy, may I suggest you look up a political philosopher named Joseph Stalin. His theories should be right up your alley.

North Korea and Iran aren't going to start bombing for shits and giggles. Iran have been pretty clear in their motivations for pursuing nuclear weapons, in that they felt a need to provide a counterbalance to the constant military threat posed by Israel and the United States. Both being armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons, and consistent aggressors against Iran. Which is why in response to the "threat" from Iran, Obama has sought Israel to make a series of appeasements, one of which has been to get rid of their nuclear weapons. North Korea's nuclear deterrent can be explained in the same way. Interesting to note that during the cold war the world came very close, numerous times to complete annihilation by the accidental deployment of nukes. Please provide some evidence for your absurd claim that getting rid of nuclear weapons would lead to more war.

Think more.
Problems with PR- It removes the link between an mp and their constituency. You are left with some faceless person to represent you. With FPTP or a hybrid system you retain that link. You have someone you know will repreent you, who is a common figure in your area and who can be held accountable to you. I would suggest that you take a look at Italy, i prime example of a country that uses pr.
Nukes- Its called the theory of Mutually Assured Destruction, i suggest you look it up
How would the argument over civil liberties be better if more terrorists were foreign? Its exactly the same whether they come from a diferent country or not. CCTV has also helped police do things such as track the movements of missing persons and reduce anti-social behaviour. Part of their job is not just to provide evidence for the courts but to deter crime and it appears to be working.
I suggest it is you who needs to think more
 

timmytom1

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Feb 26, 2009
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EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
I cant stand left wing or centre left policy though. Its all lets make everybody happy half measures.
Democratizing workplaces? Proportional representation? Nuclear disarmament? Protection of civil liberties? Pah. Sounds like a typical bunch of do-nothing lefty half measures to me.

I have a strange feeling you aren't anywhere near as informed as you think you are.
Protection of civil liberties=placing one persons rights against the security of the nation. I would happily sacriice civil liberties if it meant tougher action on criminals and terrorists.
Proportional representation, especially in this country would only produce a wave of inneficient coalitions. We would have no strong government and much less would be accomplished.
Nuclear disarmament=massive increase in convetional warfare. You really think countries like North Korea, Iran etc would just stay peacefull if they knew they wouldn't be anhialated.
Democratizing the workplace=an okay policy, nothing special but okay
Anyone seen my tin foil??
 

secretsantaone

New member
Mar 9, 2009
439
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EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
I cant stand left wing or centre left policy though. Its all lets make everybody happy half measures.
Democratizing workplaces? Proportional representation? Nuclear disarmament? Protection of civil liberties? Pah. Sounds like a typical bunch of do-nothing lefty half measures to me.

I have a strange feeling you aren't anywhere near as informed as you think you are.
You really think the current MPs represent their constituencies anyway?

MAD is the idea the left wing is trying to stop.


Oh, and ever heard of the 40 days in custody?
You know how many terrorist attacks have been stopped thanks to it?

None.
Yet it removes out right to a fair trial.
 

Ophiuchus

8 miles high and falling fast
Mar 31, 2008
2,095
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I suppose it's probably about time.

That said, Labour will probably lose if he calls it now, which means David Cameron would be in charge of the country... which would speed up my emigration to Canada.
 

EMFCRACKSHOT

Not quite Cthulhu
May 25, 2009
2,973
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secretsantaone said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
I cant stand left wing or centre left policy though. Its all lets make everybody happy half measures.
Democratizing workplaces? Proportional representation? Nuclear disarmament? Protection of civil liberties? Pah. Sounds like a typical bunch of do-nothing lefty half measures to me.

I have a strange feeling you aren't anywhere near as informed as you think you are.
You really think the current MPs represent their constituencies anyway?

MAD is the idea the left wing is trying to stop.


Oh, and ever heard of the 40 days in custody?
You know how many terrorist attacks have been stopped thanks to it?

None.
Yet it removes out right to a fair trial.
My MP has always done her best to represent my constiuency. I have nothing but praise she for the effort she has put in on my behalf.
I personally wouldnt feel safe without MAD. The threa of anhialation is quite the deterent to attacking someone.
That 40 days does not remove the idea of a fair trial. It gives the police valuable time to search for more evidence and, if the person in custody is a key member, it can completely derail a terrorists plans. If enough evidence is found to convict them, then they get a fair trial. I just don't think 40 days is long enough
 

secretsantaone

New member
Mar 9, 2009
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EMFCRACKSHOT said:
secretsantaone said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
I cant stand left wing or centre left policy though. Its all lets make everybody happy half measures.
Democratizing workplaces? Proportional representation? Nuclear disarmament? Protection of civil liberties? Pah. Sounds like a typical bunch of do-nothing lefty half measures to me.

I have a strange feeling you aren't anywhere near as informed as you think you are.
/quote]

My MP has always done her best to represent my constiuency. I have nothing but praise she for the effort she has put in on my behalf.
I personally wouldnt feel safe without MAD. The threa of anhialation is quite the deterent to attacking someone.
That 40 days does not remove the idea of a fair trial. It gives the police valuable time to search for more evidence and, if the person in custody is a key member, it can completely derail a terrorists plans. If enough evidence is found to convict them, then they get a fair trial. I just don't think 40 days is long enough

Yes, I too feel safe that one misunderstanding could bring about the end of the world in under a day.

Yes it does. 42 days in prison is a long time. No evidence or even charge required. Just randomly drag someone to a cell for over a month. And you have no problem with this? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Even worse, you wanted it to be extended! Think of how much you could ruin someone's life in 42 days. Lose your job, partner, friends and any plans you had. 42 days of your life wasted.
 

EMFCRACKSHOT

Not quite Cthulhu
May 25, 2009
2,973
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secretsantaone said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
secretsantaone said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
I cant stand left wing or centre left policy though. Its all lets make everybody happy half measures.
Democratizing workplaces? Proportional representation? Nuclear disarmament? Protection of civil liberties? Pah. Sounds like a typical bunch of do-nothing lefty half measures to me.

I have a strange feeling you aren't anywhere near as informed as you think you are.
/quote]

My MP has always done her best to represent my constiuency. I have nothing but praise she for the effort she has put in on my behalf.
I personally wouldnt feel safe without MAD. The threa of anhialation is quite the deterent to attacking someone.
That 40 days does not remove the idea of a fair trial. It gives the police valuable time to search for more evidence and, if the person in custody is a key member, it can completely derail a terrorists plans. If enough evidence is found to convict them, then they get a fair trial. I just don't think 40 days is long enough

Yes, I too feel safe that one misunderstanding could bring about the end of the world in under a day.

Yes it does. 42 days in prison is a long time. No evidence or even charge required. Just randomly drag someone to a cell for over a month. And you have no problem with this? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Even worse, you wanted it to be extended! Think of how much you could ruin someone's life in 42 days. Lose your job, partner, friends and any plans you had. 42 days of your life wasted.
I'd rather it be extended than take the risk of letting terrorists kill people. Hell, were already destroying the planet anyway, it jusdt takes longer without nukes. Just think of it like this, the cold ar wouldnt have been so cold if not for nukes. Think about the environmental damage caused by conventional warfare. It can be just as damaging
 

secretsantaone

New member
Mar 9, 2009
439
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EMFCRACKSHOT said:
secretsantaone said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
secretsantaone said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
jdnoth said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
I cant stand left wing or centre left policy though. Its all lets make everybody happy half measures.
Democratizing workplaces? Proportional representation? Nuclear disarmament? Protection of civil liberties? Pah. Sounds like a typical bunch of do-nothing lefty half measures to me.

I have a strange feeling you aren't anywhere near as informed as you think you are.
/quote]
I'd rather it be extended than take the risk of letting terrorists kill people. Hell, were already destroying the planet anyway, it jusdt takes longer without nukes. Just think of it like this, the cold ar wouldnt have been so cold if not for nukes. Think about the environmental damage caused by conventional warfare. It can be just as damaging
Right, because the napoleonic wars had more impact on the environment than if Britain and France nuked eachother.

As far as I know, very few people have been prosecuted who have been held under the 42 days, and none of them terrorists. Anti-terrorism laws have been used on 11 year old girls, protestors and Icelandic banks. Really protecting you from threats eh?