Poll: To atheists:What kind are you?

[Cakes]

And what would you call someone who believes in God, yet doesn't believe in him/her/it?
Are they called a contradiction? I sware to [lol] God.. I've met someone like this before.

That...doesn't make any sense. They believe in God, and at the same time they don't...? Doublethink is fucked up like that, I guess.

 

[Cliff_m85]

If you believe there is some form of higher being then I don't think you're an actual Atheist. Atheists believe that there is no higher being. Agnostics believe there could be a higher being. Theists believe there is a higher being. I might be slightly off, but I think that's pretty much it.

To get picky about, most of us would say that Atheism isn't the "belief that there's no God", but rather "lack of a belief in God". There's quite a difference.

That sounds completely backwards to me. Atheism should be the belief there is no God, if it was the lack of a belief in God then that implies in itself that they believe there is a God and they just don't believe in him... which in itself is a contradiction... I hope that made sense...

A bit off and I mention it only because it slightly annoys me.

Atheism is the lack of a belief. Theism is a belief. Agnosticism is not knowing.

Do you believe there is a god? The only answers possibly fall upon "Atheism" or "Theism".
Do you know there is a god? The only answers possibly fall on Agnosticism or Gnosticism.


Those who claim to be agnostic aren't answering the question of if they believe in a god.

See above for the 'lack of belief' part.

I don't see how I was a bit off but maybe you could explain it to me as though I was a complete laymen, or five year old. I see you added gnostics to the equation but I don't quite understand what you're getting at.

No problem.

The only possible answers to "do you believe" are yes or no, not "I don't know" since it isn't a question of knowing. It's a faith or lack-of-faith question, not one of knowing.

 

[Bat Vader]

I am a Christian myself. Do I care what religion you are or aren't? No. Do I want to preach about Christianity? No.

Do I want some atheists to shut up and respect my beliefs? Yes.

 

[Taerdin]

If you believe there is some form of higher being then I don't think you're an actual Atheist. Atheists believe that there is no higher being. Agnostics believe there could be a higher being. Theists believe there is a higher being. I might be slightly off, but I think that's pretty much it.

To get picky about, most of us would say that Atheism isn't the "belief that there's no God", but rather "lack of a belief in God". There's quite a difference.

That sounds completely backwards to me. Atheism should be the belief there is no God, if it was the lack of a belief in God then that implies in itself that they believe there is a God and they just don't believe in him... which in itself is a contradiction... I hope that made sense...

It's not that hard. We see no reason to believe in a God, so we don't acknowledge any. Lack of belief in God. "We believe there is no God" is a statement of belief, that most Atheists would avoid.

It is for me. I seriously don't understand why you make that distinction. If there is any simpler way you could break it down I would appreciate it, it kind of sounds silly the way I'm interpreting it (wrongly I assume).

 

[Craig FTW]

yeah. Really. It always seems that any religion thread seems to go like this.

The reason so many of these discussions fail is that nobody seems to be able to handle the topic maturely. This thread could work if we simply answer the OP's question, and politely debate with people if we must.

But there is always that one guy...

Spoiler

and then this sort of happens:

Spoiler

[http://img193.imageshack.us/i/religiio.jpg/]

I should say, this is not a religion thread. Based on the original post, the title and the poll, I'd say this is a simple survey and open forum for those of us who are not affiliated in any way with a religion.

Why thank you kind sir.

 

[Cakes]

Can someone here please explain how someone is not religious and at the same time not an atheist or agnostic?

Please tell me I honestly don't know. My mind can't wrap around this for some reason.

Simply put, religion doesn't matter to them. They have absolutely no views on the matter, and consider it entirely unimportant. I've never actually met someone who thinks like that, but apparently they exist.

 

[Acaroid]

or do you stand on a soap box and yell 'Religion is dumb'? Sorry if I didn't get the 'soap box' term right, I heard my dad say it once and I think I heard him wrong.

Yes you used it correct, as soap box is a term used for someone who stands on a raised platform to perform a speach or give opinions. It is called a soap box because people literally stand on wooden boxes used to hold soap in as a platform to speak.
Soapboxing throughout history is been tied with free speach and expressing opinions openly.

Anyway about the topic,
I am not really a theist of any sorts... I am a "hey I don't believe it, but feel free to believe what you want, just don't use it as an excuse and accept your own actions, don't cause hate on people for not believing, don't use it as an excuse to punish people in the name of your beliefs and don't judge my actions on the basis of your beliefs?

 

[scotth266]

I disagree that most religion is harmless, rather I think almost all religions are directly harmful in multiple ways.

To quote Ghandi: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

If you see a religion being harmful, it's likely because the members of said religion are likely twisting it to suit their purposes, or the religion is itself harmful by nature (Satanism.) All other things tend to be propaganda.

 

[Xpwn3ntial]

I'm the kind of atheist who wants to prove to the world we're not all Richard Dawkins.

 

[Worgen]

Im an anti-theist, tho generaly I wont bring religion up unless pressed

 

[Xpwn3ntial]

Religion's fine with me, just don't get up in my face with it or BAM! the dog is let loose.

 

[Cakes]

If you believe there is some form of higher being then I don't think you're an actual Atheist. Atheists believe that there is no higher being. Agnostics believe there could be a higher being. Theists believe there is a higher being. I might be slightly off, but I think that's pretty much it.

To get picky about, most of us would say that Atheism isn't the "belief that there's no God", but rather "lack of a belief in God". There's quite a difference.

That sounds completely backwards to me. Atheism should be the belief there is no God, if it was the lack of a belief in God then that implies in itself that they believe there is a God and they just don't believe in him... which in itself is a contradiction... I hope that made sense...

It's not that hard. We see no reason to believe in a God, so we don't acknowledge any. Lack of belief in God. "We believe there is no God" is a statement of belief, that most Atheists would avoid.

It is for me. I seriously don't understand why you make that distinction. If there is any simpler way you could break it down I would appreciate it, it kind of sounds silly the way I'm interpreting it (wrongly I assume).

I really don't see where you're having trouble here. Here's how it works:

"I believe there is no God" is a statement of belief; the burden of proof would then lie with them just as much as the "I believe there is a God" person
"I lack a belief in any sort of Deity" is basically to say "I don't see anything, why the fuck should I worship it?" One is a statement of belief, one isn't.

 

[Craig FTW]

scotth266, I love that Ghandi quote. When ever I hear of Christian radicalists like hating gays or bombing abortion clinics, I think "Hmm, did Jesus go around doing this?"

I think that God (if there is one) is more leniant than some people believe.

 

[Cakes]

I disagree that most religion is harmless, rather I think almost all religions are directly harmful in multiple ways.

To quote Ghandi: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

If you see a religion being harmful, it's likely because the members of said religion are likely twisting it to suit their purposes, or the religion is itself harmful by nature (Satanism.) All other things tend to be propaganda.

That's where you lost me. I don't think you have a particularly good understanding of what "Satanism" is, so please don't judge it.

 

[Cliff_m85]

If someone bases their life on a lie, would you not have the moral obligation to inform them of such? I ask this as well: What if people base their life on a religion that deliberately harms others or themselves? Breathairianism, for instance. The belief that one does not need food to survive (I'm not making that up, by the way). How about cargo cultism? What of apostacy?

If they need their religion, it's none of your business. Most religion is harmless.

That's absolutely immoral. You see a parent not allowing their child to eat and you shrug and say "not my business". I can't do that. I disagree that most religion is harmless, rather I think almost all religions are directly harmful in multiple ways.

How so? Sure, there's the extremists, but you find those everywhere. If religion wasn't their justification for being idiots, it'd be, say, those horrible video games.

Atleast we can rationally show that video games are real, as well as show that the actions going on in them are not.

Here's a good factual thing that happened. Imagine that I am in a room with a child, a small male baby. During this time I cut his penis and suck upon it. Morally what would you say to that?

Now wait, my friend, for I am a Jewish mohel doing a spiritual rite that goes back centuries. I am protected from any punishment for these events, even if (as happened to multiple babies in New York) I spread a sexually transmitted disease to these children.

How about the Catholic Priests that molested children and got away with it completely? Did you even find out that Bush pardoned the pope? The same pope who wrote into the countracts of bishops, archbishops, and priests that they must keep quiet about the things that may make the church look bad? All completely provable, yet ignored because it's such a hassel to speak out on these things. Was this in the news, or was it left out to avoid 'backlash'?

 

[Cakes]

I disagree that most religion is harmless, rather I think almost all religions are directly harmful in multiple ways.

To quote Ghandi: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

If you see a religion being harmful, it's likely because the members of said religion are likely twisting it to suit their purposes, or the religion is itself harmful by nature (Satanism.) All other things tend to be propaganda.

The actual religion of Satanism is just Libertarianism packaged as an "edgy" religion to attract teens to the political ideology.

That's LaVeyan satanism, yeah. But then there's Theistic Satanism, which is a different matter entirely.

 

[scotth266]

scotth266, I love that Ghandi quote. When ever I hear of Christian radicalists like hating gays or bombing abortion clinics, I think "Hmm, did Jesus go around doing this?"

I think that God (if there is one) is more leniant than some people believe.

I got a similar quote (I found that one searching for the other) from a Civilization game. And people say you can't learn stuff from video games.

 

[Craig FTW]

One thing I personally don't like is when some anti-theists(new epic term I hope to use now) talk about theists as lower beings or dumber beings. I really don't care for that.

 

[Cakes]

Here's a good factual thing that happened. Imagine that I am in a room with a child, a small male baby. During this time I cut his penis and suck upon it. Morally what would you say to that?

Now wait, my friend, for I am a Jewish mohel doing a spiritual rite that goes back centuries. I am protected from any punishment for these events, even if (as happened to multiple babies in New York) I spread a sexually transmitted disease to these children.

Don't agree with that, it's a ridiculous practice.

How about the Catholic Priests that molested children and got away with it completely? Did you even find out that Bush pardoned the pope? The same pope who wrote into the countracts of bishops, archbishops, and priests that they must keep quiet about the things that may make the church look bad? All completely provable, yet ignored because it's such a hassel to speak out on these things. Was this in the news, or was it left out to avoid 'backlash'?

Have you been watching Penn and Teller? I think you have. I agree, the Vatican is evil as fuck. You, however, seem to think they represent the whole damn religion.

 

[Cliff_m85]

I disagree that most religion is harmless, rather I think almost all religions are directly harmful in multiple ways.

To quote Ghandi: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

If you see a religion being harmful, it's likely because the members of said religion are likely twisting it to suit their purposes, or the religion is itself harmful by nature (Satanism.) All other things tend to be propaganda.

Understood, however I disagree. People pick-and-choose from their religious texts. I find that to just be insane. Why believe in this but ignore the other? Why preach against homosexuals but not against women wearing pants? *shrugs* People aren't twisting religion, they're following it more closely to the T. The asshole Westboro Group actually take the Bible quite literally. Not extremists, but literalists.