Poll: Top 10 most overrated games I?ve ever played *WALL OF TEXT AHOY!*

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Tryzon

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Scrustle said:
Well, although I didn't read all of it that was a fantastic piece of writing. I only read the bits from games I have played myself, because obviously it would be pretty useless for me to try and compare your opinion with something I haven't experienced. Plus the huge bulk of text was a bit daunting... But you make some very good points. I have to say of all the games in question I really enjoyed them all. They're not my favourite games of all time but I still think they're great games. But like I said you make some great points.

I've never played either of the System Shock games so I can't really say anything about how similar they are to Bioshock, but it's true the game is not perfect at all. But one thing that always bugged me about the game is that the philosophical themes of the game (and it's sequel) are barely every touched upon. I feel like it's such a wasted opportunity. It's like it would be the same game if they completely took them out. One example I've heard that illustrates this well is this story I read by some game journalist, whose name I can't remember. He said that he was playing Bioshock while a friend was watching him. This friend did play games but was not the most hardcore gamer in the world. They asked what the game was and said that it looked like Quake. The journalist replied explaining what the game was about and it's philosophical themes, all of which completely went over his friend's head. After a pause he reiterated that the game looked like Quake. It shows just how little of the fascinated surrounding world of the game actually has anything to do with how the game actually plays. It's very sad. They spent all this time trying to put high culture in to a game which they hoped would be seen as thoughtful and spark conversation, but all it ended up doing was being the most long winded explanation of a game setting ever.

I don't really have as much to say about Halo 2 other than I agree that the Arbiter is by far the most interesting character in any Halo game ever.

I don't mind the more serious setting in GTA 4. I think it's good that a game has explored that territory, and it's equally good that Saints Row has filled the gap left by GTA, but I agree that the setting isn't the most interesting place a game has ever been set. I still think it's a good setting. Liberty City does feel like a real living city , but it also feels very grey. And you're so right that it's got very underwhelming music when compared to GTA 3 or SA. Also I agree the controls feel quite sluggish. That annoyed me to an extent, but only on foot. I found the car physics to be pretty good. The body roll of the cars sometimes looks a bit comical, but I think the game has some of the best feeling cars in any non-car focused game.
An above-average amount of agreement here! I approve. Not that most of those who responded less positively didn't make fair points, but it's nice to know at least a few got something out of this.

You also reminded me of something I forgot to mention: Halo 2 is actually similar to Terminator: Salvation, in that they're both disappointing sequels with a supporting character that's far more interesting than the protagonist, but gets far less screen time. In T:Salvation's case, I mean Marcus, the cyborg with questionable motives. Funnily enough, I actually rambled about this in my blog at some point, but I still can't get over the fact that these media products manage to pay the least attention to the most interesting characters. Makes a whole lotta sense.
 

Axyun

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These are your opinions and you are entitled to them. For me, games like Bioshock shone so well in the good parts that they managed to completely drown out the faults and allow me to immerse myself completely. It is unfortunate that you were not able to obtain the same level of satisfaction from them.

Hopefully you'll have your own list of games that reach that level for you.
 

floppylobster

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I agree with all of this except I would replace Halo 2 with Halo 3. However, all of them have only ever been games to me so I've never overrated any of them. They are but short diversions for my time when I've been in the need to relax.
 

Tryzon

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Agayek said:
Tryzon said:
Nice rant/rambling/critique thing. Not really sure what to call it, but it was a rather well put together piece, even if it could use a bit more succinctness.

That said, the real reason I'm posting here is to ask why the hell you got a warning for the OP? I can't see any way it violates the forum TOS, so I've gotta ask. Was it just too long or something?
Thanks, and the warning was because I put a link to my blog after so many people said the list would be more appropriate for a blog than a forum, which may be true. I just wanted to show people that it actually WAS a blog post I'd just put on here as well, but forgot putting links in posts like that is considered naughty by the all-knowing mods. Oops. Funny thing is I now can't edit the post, so the link is stuck there for all to see. Don't think they thought that through very well XD
 

Tryzon

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Axyun said:
These are your opinions and you are entitled to them. For me, games like Bioshock shone so well in the good parts that they managed to completely drown out the faults and allow me to immerse myself completely. It is unfortunate that you were not able to obtain the same level of satisfaction from them.

Hopefully you'll have your own list of games that reach that level for you.
Thank you! I could never write a concrete list of my favourite games, but regulars include Soul Reaver, TimeSplitters 2, GalCiv 2, and definitely the nightmare-factory that is Amnesia. You wanna talk about atmosphere and immersion? That one pretty much wrote the book.
 

s0p0g

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not too long, did read ^^

and oh so surprisingly i have to say that i mostly agree with you. except for that GTA part. never cared about it, didn't click for me. oh well.


only thing i really wonder about... what did you get a warning for? for writing elaborate content thread post stuff?

aunty Edith says: nvm, scrolled up a little, read another post about some fiendish infernal hellish link
 

Ironic Pirate

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I must say, for a 10,000 word rant on an overdone subject, that was surprisingly readable. Probably be better if you edited yourself a bit, and maybe put each game in it's own spoiler section (so that people could look at each at will) but still.
 

Tryzon

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TheRussian said:
You mentioned Half Life 2, Bioshock, and GTA4.

You sure love walls huh?
I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean by that. You think I like the Gears/Uncharted style of cover-based shooting? Not really, though Uncharted is probably my favourite game of that type by a good distance. I'm not sure what else you might have meant.

OR did you mean that I apparently love putting walls between myself and the audience? I see your point, if so.
 

Tryzon

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s0p0g said:
not too long, did read ^^

and oh so surprisingly i have to say that i mostly agree with you. except for that GTA part. never cared about it, didn't click for me. oh well.
Ironic Pirate said:
I must say, for a 10,000 word rant on an overdone subject, that was surprisingly readable. Probably be better if you edited yourself a bit, and maybe put each game in it's own spoiler section (so that people could look at each at will) but still.
Thanks to the pair of you! I'm not sure why a whole bunch of people have suddenly appeared to defend me, but I'm not complaining either ^_^

If you liked this, I strongly recommend checking out the things I'd say are considerably better. My most recent review was for Penumbra: Black Plague. It's on here somewhere only 2000 words, so it's nowhere near as daunting as this. I do love to plug my own things. Thanks again XD
 

Treblaine

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Tryzon said:
Huh. Interesting reading. I definitely can't imagine treating CoD like an RPG, but good luck to you. Obviously I wouldn't pay good money for a game I had no idea what to expect from, and I also wouldn't get something unless I knew it at least fell into a vague genre that I knew I generally enjoyed, but beyond that, I'm totally in support of blindness. I know quoting Yahtzee to any extent on here immediately results in getting labelled unpleasant things, but his policy of not buying into hype so that you can be pleasantly surprised makes a lot of sense to me. Granted, I'm increasingly pessimistic about the big-name games, even Skyrim, which I'd still chop a limb off to play right now, but there's still plenty of interesting stuff thanks to the indie scene. Don't know how I lived before Steam, quite frankly. Yes, I know Steam are evil and junk, but they're so gosh darn convenient :D
I generally respect yahtzee, and I agree not getting too caught up in the hype (though, the prelude to a game is still important in terms of immersion) as it's bad to set your expectations too high that it becomes logically too hard to bring them down. I can understand wanting to avoid that.

Personally, I am immune to hype after being repeatedly and deeply burned over the years, I can never get my hopes too high. In fact I look deep and critically at games so I don't get hit by another MGS2.

But just look at what you are getting into. What expectations are appropriate for any given game because you WILL have expectations, no matter what.

"Yes, I know Steam are evil and junk, but they're so gosh darn convenient"

Don' let the haters get you down, Steam is great. Only a loud minority have any problem with it.
 

Tryzon

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The_Waspman said:
Not to get pissy, but tomb raider started life on the PC. Why does no-one remember this?
...no, if Retro Gamer's interview with some of the creators is to be believed, the Saturn version came first THEN the PS1 and PC ports followed. I kind of assumed it was PlayStation-exclusive for many years, but such was my ignorance.
 

Axyun

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Tryzon said:
Axyun said:
These are your opinions and you are entitled to them. For me, games like Bioshock shone so well in the good parts that they managed to completely drown out the faults and allow me to immerse myself completely. It is unfortunate that you were not able to obtain the same level of satisfaction from them.

Hopefully you'll have your own list of games that reach that level for you.
Thank you! I could never write a concrete list of my favourite games, but regulars include Soul Reaver, TimeSplitters 2, GalCiv 2, and definitely the nightmare-factory that is Amnesia. You wanna talk about atmosphere and immersion? That one pretty much wrote the book.
Ah I remember Soul Reaver. Still have it for my Dreamcast somewhere in the attic. Good times. I do have Amnesia and really enjoy it but only play it in short bursts. Partly because I wet my pants and partly because the insanity effect physically makes my head hurt after prolongued exposure. I've tried toggling it off in the settings but its not quite the same.

Never played TimeSplitters 2 but I've seen in recommended here and there. Should try to get my hands on it sometime. GalCiv 2 I whip out from time to time. Good stuff.
 

Treblaine

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Tryzon said:
IamLEAM1983 said:
I'd quote you just for the sake of reference, Tryzon, but your having received a warning makes it impossible for me to do so.

I'll join the droves here who've mentioned that this might have been better served as a blog post, seeing as you have the option of cutting off your Wall of Text into manageable sections. Otherwise, I would've posted your Wall of Text as a blog entry, cut it up for legibility and then posted links to the anchored points of your entry in a forum post here. It's less direct, but it's a lot more fluid.

As for what you've said, I don't know. I hate these "Overrated Games" threads as a rule, seeing as you could really rephrase that as "Games I Didn't Like" or "Games I Think You're an Idiot for Liking". Not saying that this is what your post suggests, but it indeed is what some of these common threads do suggest.

The way you're presenting your information makes it seem as though you'd immediately forgotten that you were essentially working on an opinion piece. You might not have *wanted* to sound like a professional reviewer or to give the semblance of being one, but through your style, you gave the impression that you were making a statement of authority. Ergo, you sounded pretty much like a reviewer. I'm sorry to say this, but you actually reminded me of a *bad* reviewer, more concerned with striking off a flame war or a heated discussion than with reasonably explaining the why and how of your personal choices.

Your content, on the other hand, makes me furrow my brows a bit. Most of the games you've mentioned might be overrated now, considering as their then-innovative mechanics are now all over the place, but I really don't see how Half-Life 2 could be considered as being overrated. At the time of its release, it was one of the highest-quality FPS experiences on the market, that successfully managed to balance both gameplay and narration. BioShock followed along the same tradition, although it drew from a different source. Yes, it's far less focused than System Shock 2, but I'd come to accept and cherish that fact, largely because modern technology allows for levels of open-ended gameplay in experiences that are still designed to be fairly linear. You could approach BioShock as a simple run-and-gun shooter, or you could choose to approach it as a quasi-sandbox, which is what I chose to do. For me, the game was a lot more about seeing which Plasmids I'd be able to use where for the best possible effect than simply storming through Rapture, murderizing everything in my path.

On the other hand, you've got Doom 3. I'll agree that id Software doesn't have a storytelling bone in its entire body and that its partnership with Bethsoft won't fix that fact, but considering this, you have to take Doom 3 as a tech demo, and nothing else. Back when it first came out, that was literally *all* Doom 3 was aiming to be. A hardware whore and a benchmark station for the early two-thousands' graphics enthusiast. That also extends to the gameplay, in that they replicated the old Doom's closet scares. Yes, there is a story, but who honestly cares about Marine McScowlyface's trip through UAC facilities? id tried to give Mars a sense of place, but it was mostly washed away by corridor-crawling design. I'd say this is a bad design choice, but it's precisely what they were aiming for.

Considering all this, I consider Doom 3 to be a merely adequate shooter. I still wouldn't go so far as to say it's overrated, considering id consistently makes games you could consider as being average.
The warning was actually for putting a link to my blog at the top, since SO MANY people said I should start a blog and I wanted to demonstrate that was already the case, but whatever. I find it funny that I can't get rid of the link now XD

Thanks for being constructive, naturally. It's definitely true that there are many people on these forums posting things with questionable intent, and the word "overrated" apparently means a variety of things depending who you talk to. I'm still not particularly fond of this piece, but I'd say the tone I was going for was "honest anger". I was vaguely aware that not everything I said made sense, but that's just what happens when you're more used to praising games than criticising them. Not to toot my own horn, but I'd suggest you find my Penumbra: Black Plague review on here, which I think is a much more accurate example of my usual style. This one negative piece somehow got all the attention, unfortunately, though I've only seen a few people who didn't appear to at least try and make reasonable comments, which was a pleasant surprise.

As for the list itself, you've got to bear in mind that I actually did play most of the games in question around the time of their release, and if not, then I played things of the same genre around then. I know Half-Life 2 was revolutionary in its use of physics and junk, and I already said I really like a lot of Valve's approaches to storytelling, but I just find the shooting unremarkable and the story unworthy of so much attention to detail. I hate to use this example again, but Legacy of Kain uses the more traditional cutscene approach and I find that saga far more gripping.

Still, thanks for clearly putting thought in and expressing a valid opinion. I can always respect that, even if I happen to be radically opposed to said opinion ^_^
Well then don't link to your blog.

Getting attention for your blog is hard, and it should be to spare all the web users out there. The Escapist have a responsibility to prevent their users being spammed including blog whoring, ultimately you have to let your blog speak for itself. Really you have to be GOOD ENOUGH that other people link to your blog because it is so good. I think you can link to your blog on your profile page, just make it so only people seeking YOU out will find it.

Forums are more useful for exploring components of ideas rather than a load of them at once. A critique of a single one of those games would have been more fitting with just a brief summary of the rest.

I also suggest you work within a word limit. Ask your friends to read your articles and then see if they will honestly tell you when they got bored and stopped, or wanted to stop. Take that average word limit and work within 25% of that. Being economical with writing and flow is vital and it's not just to save on ink or megabits, it's to spare your reader's who want you to deliver the point efficiently.

Also ask yourself if you are here to tell your life story or make a point about video games. Personal establishment are good but not whole paragraphs only tangentially related.
 

Tryzon

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Treblaine said:
I generally respect yahtzee, and I agree not getting too caught up in the hype (though, the prelude to a game is still important in terms of immersion) as it's bad to set your expectations too high that it becomes logically too hard to bring them down. I can understand wanting to avoid that.

Personally, I am immune to hype after being repeatedly and deeply burned over the years, I can never get my hopes too high. In fact I look deep and critically at games so I don't get hit by another MGS2.

But just look at what you are getting into. What expectations are appropriate for any given game because you WILL have expectations, no matter what.

"Yes, I know Steam are evil and junk, but they're so gosh darn convenient"

Don' let the haters get you down, Steam is great. Only a loud minority have any problem with it.
I don't have the cash or a powerful enough PC to buy many full-priced games these days, so not buying into hype has the added effect of not making me horribly envious of those who do get shiny new things on a regular basis. That said, Skyrim is the only recently I can think of on the spot that I definitely wish I could be playing at this moment.

Obviously we all have expectations, just as it's impossible to write something without at least an unconscious bias, but I find it can really pay off if you learn about a game's setting and universe naturally as events unfold. Such was the case with KotOR, and I certainly don't regret that.

Yes, Steam seems to be so amazing, yet a loudmouth few passionately loathes it. I acknowledge that letting a game developer have a big share in a distribution platform is a questionable idea, but that same company have given Portal away free during special occasions, so if they're evil, they're hiding it well. *knife lands in back*

And GTA IV burned me. It burned me bad.

EDIT: I had heard before that linking in posts wasn't allowed, but a bunch of people said I should've just linked to the blog post rather than putting the thing here. I assumed the rules had changed in my long absence from these forums, but apparently not. I really wouldn't worry about it.

And that Penumbra review I keep recommending people to find on here is barely 2000 words and I think is all the better for it. That's concise, right? I certainly hope so.
 

Treblaine

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Tryzon said:
Yes, Steam seems to be so amazing, yet a loudmouth few passionately loathes it. I acknowledge that letting a game developer have a big share in a distribution platform is a questionable idea, but that same company have given Portal away free during special occasions, so if they're evil, they're hiding it well. *knife lands in back*

And GTA IV burned me. It burned me bad.
Well, Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft are game developers and they own ENTIRE CONSOLE ECOSYSTEMS, surely it's not a problem for Valve to own a storefront?

You might not have been burned by GTAIV if you'd looked into what you were getting into, that it was NOT another San Andreas that overall had taken the game so far off the crazy-end they were out of their depth and could easily have been out-crazied by another developer.

This is the problem with going in blind. You need to look, but look with a critical eye and see more than just you want to see. You need to find a critic who will pick up on the issues that effect you and put that critic in your bookmarks, click on his adds and give him hits.
 

zHellas

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Feb 7, 2010
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Sober Thal said:
To put your list (I agree with some of it) in perspective, what games are in your top ten liked games?
Oooh, I wanna know this too!