Poll: Top 10 most overrated games I?ve ever played *WALL OF TEXT AHOY!*

[Tryzon]

I did read the whole thing through, and I found it to be a pretty engaging read. I'd say it was quite fair, and amusing in the parts where others claim you to be condescending, OP. I'd like to reply fully to your list but really, it is huge and there's no real way to discuss it without picking it apart.

I'll agree with your opinions, keeping in mind that the original point here is that these games are over-rated - which they are- and not just to you, but to everyone. Yes, you do come across as condescending at some points, but rightfully so! I'm guilty of skipping every other poster's comment once I realised that for the most part it's the same repetition of some other guy's post, so I don't really have any sort of handle on anyone else's opinion towards you/your list.

However I would like to state that it's MY opinion that if someone was to complain that you're too condescending, they're likely sore because they know that these problems are easily solved, there is no need to be anything other than negatively-critical, or passive-aggressive. The issue lies with the person themselves, and they'd do well not to get so sour about a harsh truth.

As for the games themselves, if I don't recall enjoying, or even recall much of the game in the first place, then it wasn't memorable or deserving of it's praise in the slightest. People can flaunt the age-old argument of "everybody's different" all they like, but the problems with gaming design are as undeniably wrong as, say, killing somebody. Take KoTOR for example. I came across the second one first, thought it was a fairly good Star Wars game. It got boring and stodgy after a while, and the story wasn't enough to keep me playing because it progressed to slowly alongside such clunky design.

Nobody can really dispute successfully that bad game design is excusable on the merits of its better sections, but I'm definitely getting the vibe that all you've done is piss off a few people who don't want their rose-coloured glasses smudged. That's their issue, and they're trying to put your validity to the sword because they're offended that you're right.

Besides, hypocrisy is a really good indicator of when you should disregard someone entirely, isn't it?

Lots of defence for me there, which I definitely appreciate, but I actually agree with a lot of the people who called the piece rambling and disjointed. It's definitely not my favourite, at the absolute least. Still, many thanks indeed for attempting to come to my rescue, though I think I've worked things out with most of the people who were calling me a proto-Hitler

 

[CRRPGMykael]

Actually you might be surprised by this but I've been reading the whole thing without skipping and your oppinion seemed quite decent. I have been, but I couldn't do it anymore because you started blabbering random shit about Saints Row being superior to GTA, which I simply cannot accept. And yes, by the way, I have played both. Yes, some prefered the more unrealistic fun of San Andreas than the more realistic approach GTA IV gave the series, and Rockstar actually did realize this. Why do you think they made The Ballad of Gay Tony? As for Saints Row, it's just another mediocre and pretentious GTA knock-off. The retarded "Would You Rather" commercial said it all, and even reminded me of the Nintendo VS Sega war, Sega insulting Nintendo all the way while Nintendo in return always keeping calm, but... who won that war? Oh, right, it was Nintendo. Yes, they are currently pretty fucked, but that's not the point. Yes, and I'd prefer going bowling with my mentally handicapped cousin or watching TV within a game a thousand times more than I would prefer doing, say, the bodyguard missions of Saints Row. What? If I don't like them then why am I playing them? Because the fucking game won't let me advance the main mission until the Waste-Your-Fucking-Time-Some-More-O-Meter isn't filled. Oh, some jackoff character thinks that I should gain more respect before he gives me another mission, so apparently owning half of the town is not enough. Oh no, I gotta spray sewage on the poor citizens of Stillwater until I'm respected enough.
But then you also went on KoToR, whose problems were immediatly forgotten after a few multiplayer lightsaber battles.

(OK, stop reading after this. I'M SERIOUS. STOP. NOW. DUDE, STOP. I MEAN IT.)

What's that, Escapist? I'm being kinda like the OP 'cuz I'm insulting games and etc? Fuck off. What happened to the first ammendment and all the other shit? What? Stephen Hawking is apparently a jerk 'cuz he's atheist but then when I defend him and say that christians are retarded I'm harming someone's feelings? Are you kidding me? What about that time I expressed my excitement about the new Assassin's Creed: Revelations trailer and got warned for it as well? Or when some guy insults me then I insult him back and get warned for it? Or when I speak of piracy I'm apparently advocating it? SERIOUSLY? FUCKING ADVOCATING IT? OK, sorry for the caps, I might get yet another warning for that, like I did before. And yet again, the moderators of The Escapist think it's fair to give me a warning for thinking someone else's activities are "retarded" even though I still managed to suggest a few solutions to that person's problem.

OK, this just went a little overboard. I mean, the OP got warned for far less than this. So yeah, I'll just STFU from now on, since I'm on probation and after 2 more warnings I'll get banned.

I still prefer Vice City to Saints Row, really, but if you give me the choice between taking my fat cousin bowling and jumping out of a plane and somersaulting into a strip club, there's no competition. Oh, it's stupid. It's incredibly stupid. But it realises this. I can respect that. Though making the mini-games mandatory somewhat undermined half the point of the ad campaign, you're completely right. Are we talking about the same KotOR, though? No multiplayer in the one I was on about.

As for the rest of your comment...yeah, a bit out of nowhere. The Escapist is at war with Eurasia. The Escapist has always been at war with Eurasia.

I'm not sure if it was kotor but i remember playing atleast 2 kickass jedi thing games that had multiplayer. i mean, who would NOT love a lightsaber battle? and then i put a darth vader skin and everyone in the chat was like "WTFUX DARTH VADER" xD
also, wtf does eurasia have anything to do with this? D:

 

[Fishyash]

Hmm, I can't really comment on the post because I didn't really read the whole thing except the beginning. However, I have to say that I was probably going to say the same thing anyways whether I agreed with what you said or not.

This kind of post doesn't quite belong here. (I think the warning tag you were given on it seems to explain that anyways)

This feels more like a personal blog (the length pretty much seals the deal for me). The ONLY discussion that can be brought from this is whether people agree with your points or not. It seems like that was enough though, looking at all the pages. The link especially wasn't the best idea in the world. From my perspective it seemed like a teaser from your blog (although it was indeed much more than that).

I did skim through the titles of the games you were talking about but I haven't been really interested in any of them. Your justifications are probably fine though. I don't doubt the content is worth reading to many people... and definately worth discussing too.

 

[Tryzon]

I'm not sure if it was kotor but i remember playing atleast 2 kickass jedi thing games that had multiplayer. i mean, who would NOT love a lightsaber battle? and then i put a darth vader skin and everyone in the chat was like "WTFUX DARTH VADER" xD
also, wtf does eurasia have anything to do with this? D:

Oh, never mind that. Just something you reminded me of. More importantly, I'd imagine the thing with epic lightsaber-fuelled multiplayer you were thinking of was the Jedi Knight series, which has what I'd call the best lightsaber combat EVER. I remember watching some guys who were über-pro have a duel and being all O_O

 

[Tryzon]

Hmm, I can't really comment on the post because I didn't really read the whole thing except the beginning. However, I have to say that I was probably going to say the same thing anyways whether I agreed with what you said or not.

This kind of post doesn't quite belong here. (I think the warning tag you were given on it seems to explain that anyways)

This feels more like a personal blog (the length pretty much seals the deal for me). The ONLY discussion that can be brought from this is whether people agree with your points or not. It seems like that was enough though, looking at all the pages. The link especially wasn't the best idea in the world. From my perspective it seemed like a teaser from your blog (although it was indeed much more than that).

I did skim through the titles of the games you were talking about but I haven't been really interested in any of them. Your justifications are probably fine though. I don't doubt the content is worth reading to many people... and definately worth discussing too.

Fair enough. I added the link after so many other people said the piece felt more appropriate for a blog than a forum, but then immediately got a warning. I'd expected that, but somehow thought the rules might've been relaxed during my absence from the site. Clearly I was overly optimistic. Still, I find it funny that the warning means I can no longer edit the post, so the link is stuck there.

Still, you're right: people have managed to get some discussions going, even if not all of it has been entirely anger-free. One bloke told me about his rather interesting approach to games like CoD, for instance; he treated it almost like an RPG, which was very interesting. Never imagined such a thing, but there you are.

I'm not particularly proud of this piece, though. Thinking of doing a happier, briefer one focussed on my list of games I see as UNDERrated. That seems like it would incur less wrath.

 

[Treblaine]

*big snip*

Unless that was one EPIC joke, I think you're taking this a bit seriously. Also, "All we are is dust on the wind, dude" was a Bill and Ted quote. So yeah. Just me being silly.

I'm sensing a considerable amount of anger. Can't we all be CALM?

And the reason I posted this piece despite my problems with it is I hate to just throw something I've spent time on away. Maybe I could've spent even more time redoing it, but I've not the patience for that after such an investment. Besides, like I mentioned to someone else, I'd rather spend that time making a list of games I see as UNDERrated, just to balance things out and go back to my usual happy tone.

And from what I remember, I very frequently like to use my encyclopaedic knowledge of other games to point out how to do something better if a feature in a game I'm reviewing is a bit meh. Not so much in this piece, admittedly. Don't know which reviews you were reading, unless they were my very early (and generally arse) ones. If these were intended as full reviews (and the top of the OP clearly says they weren't), I would've gone the whole hog and analysed the hell out of everything. As they're (relatively) condensed summaries of why I see them as overrated, I had to keep things brief or end up with a 20,000 word piece.

Lastly, I think there's a bit of a difference between enjoying bouncing ragdolls off walls and loving a game because its textures are particularly high-res.

I was under the impression we'd all become CALM and put this bickering behind us. You made valid points and I thanked you for them, but that massive rant was a bit out of place, even though further valid points were raised.

Friends now? Pretty please?

"I hate to just throw something I've spent time on away."

That's no excuse to spam Escapist Forums with massive chapters of your b-grade musing.

Swallow your pride and accept that what you may have written may not be anything of relevance to anyone except to yourself, to LEARN FROM. No writing is wasted, except if you refuse to learn from your mistakes. Isaac Newton lost his entire life's work in a house fire, he started again from scratch and was better for it... rediscovering everything in new experimentation and reasoning he came up with the robust theory of Gravitation! As a writer you will have to learn, so much of your work you will have to throw in the bin and start again as it is quite simply worthless.

"I think there's a bit of a difference between enjoying bouncing ragdolls off walls and loving a game because its textures are particularly high-res."

Really? That's you opinion, and it might be valued if you elaborate and I'd like to state "Graphics whores" is more than mere technical titillation, it is aesthetic. It is the use of shadows and contrast, what the textures and lighting are able to depict not the engine itself. PS: Doom 3 is best played in a darkened room where you can see into gloom, also with mouse aim where in tight quarters that extras precision really is a necessity.

"Friends now? Pretty please?"

Before friendship you are going to have to earn some goodwill by considering what I say with similar weight as I've considered with your writing... without dismissing it as an angry rant.

 

[Tryzon]

"I hate to just throw something I've spent time on away."

That's no excuse to spam Escapist Forums with massive chapters of your b-grade musing.

Swallow your pride and accept that what you may have written may not be anything of relevance to anyone except to yourself, to LEARN FROM. No writing is wasted, except if you refuse to learn from your mistakes. Isaac Newton lost his entire life's work in a house fire, he started again from scratch and was better for it... rediscovering everything in new experimentation and reasoning he came up with the robust theory of Gravitation! As a writer you will have to learn, so much of your work you will have to throw in the bin and start again as it is quite simply worthless.

"I think there's a bit of a difference between enjoying bouncing ragdolls off walls and loving a game because its textures are particularly high-res."

Really? That's you opinion, and it might be valued if you elaborate and I'd like to state "Graphics whores" is more than mere technical titillation, it is aesthetic. It is the use of shadows and contrast, what the textures and lighting are able to depict not the engine itself. PS: Doom 3 is best played in a darkened room where you can see into gloom, also with mouse aim where in tight quarters that extras precision really is a necessity.

"Friends now? Pretty please?"

Before friendship you are going to have to earn some goodwill by considering what I say with similar weight as I've considered with your writing... without dismissing it as an angry rant.

It was only your last post that I felt was a bit ranty. You seemed to have interpreted my friendly conversation with someone as me teasing them or something, which was far from the truth. That probably wasn't your intention, but it's how it sounded to me.

Getting back on topic, I still feel the list has some worth. People have managed to get some chat out of it, after all, and is that not the point of a forum? I still have a lot of problems with the piece, but I wouldn't have submitted it if I thought it had no value at all. I've definitely learnt that writing angrily isn't my strong suit, at the very least, so I'd say this whole experience hasn't been for naught. I'm well aware that writing is a finicky business and that rejection is par for the course, but still believe some shred of good has come from this experience.

And I shall elaborate on the physics/graphics whore thing. If I play a shooter or something in which the corpses of my foes fly hilariously about and land in heaps, I'll probably be very happy so long as the game's other elements don't let the team down. In contrast, I've seen plenty of games in my day whose undeniable prettiness has done nothing to prevent my dislike of them. Doom 3 is probably the one that pops into my mind first, but a whole load of these modern shooters might fall into the category as well, but I won't go on about CoD and its ilk since that particular pony's been kicked to death already. I was a bit hasty with the whole "graphics whores" business, but these Hollywood-flavoured, big-budgeted shooters with no pacing, pretensions of realism and endless accursed military technobabble just depress me. Even when I manage to get some entertainment out of them, which I definitely do, there are so many times when I find myself wishing I could just grab a minigun and go mad.

I'm going to cut that train of thought before it evolves into a full-fledged rant, but you can probably see where I was going. Some people call Oblivion and such dumb RPGs, and there's some justification for that, but at least they have some merits beyond looking nice. I just don't get that feeling with things like Doom 3, and that's just how my brain works.

Now are we friends?

ADDITIONAL: I forgot to mention that I saw Penumbra and Amnesia as examples of games whose use of physics considerably enhanced the experience. I rambled on quite a bit about that in the Penumbra review, predictably enough.

 

[Zoe Castillo]

This was a nice read
I disagree with almost everything you said but I relay enjoyed this .

( sorry I don't have much to add )

 

[ReinWeisserRitter]

Half the games you mentioned (Halo 2, Doom 3, Grand Theft Auto IV) aren't even widely regarded by their own fanbases, let alone by the general populace. In fact, I'm pretty sure each is considered the worst of their own series, though to be fair, most Grand Theft Auto fans thought the series started with Grand Theft Auto III. I'm sure it makes sense to some of them. Tomb Raider was barely taken seriously at large to begin with, and is more or less a dead horse at this point, because its gimmicks don't make it unique anymore. You're not even aiming in the right direction, for the most part.

That out of the way, many games are widely praised because it invoked a specific reaction in the player; the game rarely has to be particularly good in order to achieve this. Since it's on your little list, Knights of the Old Republic is a broken, buggy, unfinished, clumsy, ham-fisted, pretentious mess, but it still evoked a certain reaction from people, and thus they're willing (more than willing, apparently) to overlook all of that, assuming they even noticed it to begin with. I personally just swore a lot at the broken combat (and its horrendous, dated rule set), the joke of a morality system ("be a paragon of virtue even against reason or a huge asshole for none whatsoever, or be statistically punished!"), the ridiculous plot, and the abysmal pacing, m'self.

My personal whining aside, yeah, most widely praised games are overrated, because that reaction they invoked, whatever it was, caused them to overlook the game's flaws, of which there are usually many. In a way, this is a good thing (should we not focus on what we liked more than what we arguably should not?), but its fans also tend to be, well, insufferable because people feel the need to justify themselves through the things they enjoy, making the game, or anything else for that matter, that much less likeable to those of us who just didn't care for it.

Lastly, I can't really see why the original post was flagged other than that most people can't emotionally deal with someone criticizing something they li-... Oh.

Still, it'd be nice if the grounds were beyond that. Your second post in the topic certainly qualified you as acting like a prick, sure, but that one didn't get flagged.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

You forgot about all the plot holes Bioshock has. And yeah, Rockstar doesn't really make good games; their missions and level design are pretty bad. Last Rockstar game I liked was Vice City or Midnight Club 2, whatever came out last. Since then every Rockstar game has been pretty disappointing to the point where I couldn't care less about their games any more.

 

[Tryzon]

This was a nice read
I disagree with almost everything you said but I relay enjoyed this .

( sorry I don't have much to add )

Good to hear. I love when people can enjoy something even when they personally don't subscribe to the author's mindset. Much obliged.

 

[Tryzon]

Half the games you mentioned (Halo 2, Doom 3, Grand Theft Auto IV) aren't even widely regarded by their own fanbases, let alone by the general populace. In fact, I'm pretty sure each is considered the worst of their own series, though to be fair, most Grand Theft Auto fans thought the series started with Grand Theft Auto III. I'm sure it makes sense to some of them. Tomb Raider was barely taken seriously at large to begin with, and is more or less a dead horse at this point, because its gimmicks don't make it unique anymore. You're not even aiming in the right direction, for the most part.

That out of the way, many games are widely praised because it invoked a specific reaction in the player; the game rarely has to be particularly good in order to achieve this. Since it's on your little list, Knights of the Old Republic is a broken, buggy, unfinished, clumsy, ham-fisted, pretentious mess, but it still evoked a certain reaction from people, and thus they're willing (more than willing, apparently) to overlook all of that, assuming they even noticed it to begin with. I personally just swore a lot at the broken combat (and its horrendous, dated rule set), the joke of a morality system ("be a paragon of virtue even against reason or a huge asshole for none whatsoever, or be statistically punished!"), the ridiculous plot, and the abysmal pacing, m'self.

My personal whining aside, yeah, most widely praised games are overrated, because that reaction they invoked, whatever it was, caused them to overlook the game's flaws, of which there are usually many. In a way, this is a good thing (should we not focus on what we liked more than what we arguably should not?), but its fans also tend to be, well, insufferable because people feel the need to justify themselves through the things they enjoy, making the game, or anything else for that matter, that much less likeable to those of us who just didn't care for it.

Lastly, I can't really see why the original post was flagged other than that most people can't emotionally deal with someone criticizing something they li-... Oh.

Still, it'd be nice if the grounds were beyond that. Your second post in the topic certainly qualified you as acting like a prick, sure, but that one didn't get flagged.

A number of folk said the list's size made my more appropriate for a blog than a forum, so I thought to add the explanation of its origin and a link to my blog. I'd hoped the forum's rules on links had been relaxed over the years, but apparently not. That's what the flag was about, not some idiot who flagged it on the grounds of a disagreement. Just to clear that up.

Now, then. I can only speak from my personal experience, but there are plenty of people who consider GTA IV vastly superior to, say, Vice City. Doom 3 too still has fans, for whatever reason. I wouldn't have put any of those games in the list if I hadn't got the impression that they still possessed considerable fanbases.

And I'm very familiar with the idea of overlooking flaws in favour of a game's stronger elements; Legacy of Kain, for all its awesomeness, is quite inconsistent in terms of game quality, and even my beloved TimeSplitters has its share of infuriating bugs and the third instalment's controversial changes to the formula. In the case of BioShock and KotOR, I was definitely able to get enjoyment out of them, but the problems I had with them greatly soured that pleasure. The games wouldn't be in the list if I didn't think their problems weren't significant.

I've since removed that second post I made on here, since you're definitely right in saying it made me sound more like a git than I intended. You have to understand I expected a far greater influx of unreasonable idiots, like you'd get on YouTube whenever you even suggest that [insert popular game here] is anything less than perfect. Me and these forums have fallen out before, so I've been very pleasantly surprised at the amount of decent arguments and debates people have come up with in the wake of a piece that I admit is a bit of a mess.

Much obliged for being one of the reasonable ones and rest assured that I don't knowingly insult folk worthy of respect. Now, the average YouTube commenter on the other hand...

 

[Tryzon]

You forgot about all the plot holes Bioshock has. And yeah, Rockstar doesn't really make good games; their missions and level design are pretty bad. Last Rockstar game I liked was Vice City or Midnight Club 2, whatever came out last. Since then every Rockstar game has been pretty disappointing to the point where I couldn't care less about their games any more.

I don't dwell on BioShock's story a whole lot, but there probably are considerable gaps I've never paid enough attention to notice. I was too busy wishing the RPG elements were less superfluous, but you know all about my opinions on the game by now. Rockstar are definitely hit-and-miss, but you'll never hear me badmouth Vice City beyond the finicky controls and lack of Queen. GTA IV, for me, was the last time I get excited about a new release of theirs. Unless they go against the strategy that seems to be most profitable, which is unlikely, that's the way it's gonna stay.

*resumes playing Vice City*

 

[ReinWeisserRitter]

Half the games you mentioned (Halo 2, Doom 3, Grand Theft Auto IV) aren't even widely regarded by their own fanbases, let alone by the general populace. In fact, I'm pretty sure each is considered the worst of their own series, though to be fair, most Grand Theft Auto fans thought the series started with Grand Theft Auto III. I'm sure it makes sense to some of them. Tomb Raider was barely taken seriously at large to begin with, and is more or less a dead horse at this point, because its gimmicks don't make it unique anymore. You're not even aiming in the right direction, for the most part.

That out of the way, many games are widely praised because it invoked a specific reaction in the player; the game rarely has to be particularly good in order to achieve this. Since it's on your little list, Knights of the Old Republic is a broken, buggy, unfinished, clumsy, ham-fisted, pretentious mess, but it still evoked a certain reaction from people, and thus they're willing (more than willing, apparently) to overlook all of that, assuming they even noticed it to begin with. I personally just swore a lot at the broken combat (and its horrendous, dated rule set), the joke of a morality system ("be a paragon of virtue even against reason or a huge asshole for none whatsoever, or be statistically punished!"), the ridiculous plot, and the abysmal pacing, m'self.

My personal whining aside, yeah, most widely praised games are overrated, because that reaction they invoked, whatever it was, caused them to overlook the game's flaws, of which there are usually many. In a way, this is a good thing (should we not focus on what we liked more than what we arguably should not?), but its fans also tend to be, well, insufferable because people feel the need to justify themselves through the things they enjoy, making the game, or anything else for that matter, that much less likeable to those of us who just didn't care for it.

Lastly, I can't really see why the original post was flagged other than that most people can't emotionally deal with someone criticizing something they li-... Oh.

Still, it'd be nice if the grounds were beyond that. Your second post in the topic certainly qualified you as acting like a prick, sure, but that one didn't get flagged.

A number of folk said the list's size made my more appropriate for a blog than a forum, so I thought to add the explanation of its origin and a link to my blog. I'd hoped the forum's rules on links had been relaxed over the years, but apparently not. That's what the flag was about, not some idiot who flagged it on the grounds of a disagreement. Just to clear that up.

Point for the forum, then, mostly. Shame on me for bringing my own assumptions in, however.

Now, then. I can only speak from my personal experience, but there are plenty of people who consider GTA IV vastly superior to, say, Vice City. Doom 3 too still has fans, for whatever reason. I wouldn't have put any of those games in the list if I hadn't got the impression that they still possessed considerable fanbases.

I'd still say my statements on the matter hold.

And I'm very familiar with the idea of overlooking flaws in favour of a game's stronger elements; Legacy of Kain, for all its awesomeness, is quite inconsistent in terms of game quality, and even my beloved TimeSplitters has its share of infuriating bugs and the third instalment's controversial changes to the formula. In the case of BioShock and KotOR, I was definitely able to get enjoyment out of them, but the problems I had with them greatly soured that pleasure. The games wouldn't be in the list if I didn't think their problems weren't significant.

Fair enough.

I've since removed that second post I made on here, since you're definitely right in saying it made me sound more like a git than I intended. You have to understand I expected a far greater influx of unreasonable idiots, like you'd get on YouTube whenever you even suggest that [insert popular game here] is anything less than perfect. Me and these forums have fallen out before, so I've been very pleasantly surprised at the amount of decent arguments and debates people have come up with in the wake of a piece that I admit is a bit of a mess.

It's in our best interest to assume the most of people until they prove themselves unworthy of the benefit of the doubt. We do everyone involved a disservice elsewise.

 

[Tryzon]

*snipalicious*

Hooray. I can be fast to assume the worst of people, as evidenced during this whole incident. Still, at least it allowed for a pleasant surprise. Next time I post here, I'll have a bit more faith in folk and only bring the Death Star to bear if driven to it. I'm a changed man and all that

 

[CRRPGMykael]

I'm not sure if it was kotor but i remember playing atleast 2 kickass jedi thing games that had multiplayer. i mean, who would NOT love a lightsaber battle? and then i put a darth vader skin and everyone in the chat was like "WTFUX DARTH VADER" xD
also, wtf does eurasia have anything to do with this? D:

Oh, never mind that. Just something you reminded me of. More importantly, I'd imagine the thing with epic lightsaber-fuelled multiplayer you were thinking of was the Jedi Knight series, which has what I'd call the best lightsaber combat EVER. I remember watching some guys who were über-pro have a duel and being all O_O

What made you think I was from Eurasia? I dunno, maybe the fact that I kept repeating the same words all the fucking time. *embarrasement*
Oh, like you're perfect >:C
YOU already made 20 billion replies to your own topic, you bastard! Although seriously, I think that's pretty cool. I rarely find people who read like EVERY SINGLE reply they get on their own topic, let alone answer to most of 'em. And this topic in particular already has so many replies...

 

[Tryzon]

What made you think I was from Eurasia? I dunno, maybe the fact that I kept repeating the same words all the fucking time. *embarrasement*
Oh, like you're perfect >:C
YOU already made 20 billion replies to your own topic, you bastard! Although seriously, I think that's pretty cool. I rarely find people who read like EVERY SINGLE reply they get on their own topic, let alone answer to most of 'em. And this topic in particular already has so many replies...

Well, seems like common decency to answer questions. Plus most folk I've talked to seem to accept that I'm not the frothing-at-the-mouth fanboy they might have assumed I was from the original post. Not to mention all the advice I've received during this whole affair. A very profitable exercise, all in all.

 

[Periodic]

I agree with you, but your targets are all soft and obvious.

 

[Treblaine]

"I hate to just throw something I've spent time on away."

That's no excuse to spam Escapist Forums with massive chapters of your b-grade musing.

Swallow your pride and accept that what you may have written may not be anything of relevance to anyone except to yourself, to LEARN FROM. No writing is wasted, except if you refuse to learn from your mistakes. Isaac Newton lost his entire life's work in a house fire, he started again from scratch and was better for it... rediscovering everything in new experimentation and reasoning he came up with the robust theory of Gravitation! As a writer you will have to learn, so much of your work you will have to throw in the bin and start again as it is quite simply worthless.

"I think there's a bit of a difference between enjoying bouncing ragdolls off walls and loving a game because its textures are particularly high-res."

Really? That's you opinion, and it might be valued if you elaborate and I'd like to state "Graphics whores" is more than mere technical titillation, it is aesthetic. It is the use of shadows and contrast, what the textures and lighting are able to depict not the engine itself. PS: Doom 3 is best played in a darkened room where you can see into gloom, also with mouse aim where in tight quarters that extras precision really is a necessity.

"Friends now? Pretty please?"

Before friendship you are going to have to earn some goodwill by considering what I say with similar weight as I've considered with your writing... without dismissing it as an angry rant.

It was only your last post that I felt was a bit ranty. You seemed to have interpreted my friendly conversation with someone as me teasing them or something, which was far from the truth. That probably wasn't your intention, but it's how it sounded to me.

Getting back on topic, I still feel the list has some worth. People have managed to get some chat out of it, after all, and is that not the point of a forum? I still have a lot of problems with the piece, but I wouldn't have submitted it if I thought it had no value at all. I've definitely learnt that writing angrily isn't my strong suit, at the very least, so I'd say this whole experience hasn't been for naught. I'm well aware that writing is a finicky business and that rejection is par for the course, but still believe some shred of good has come from this experience.

And I shall elaborate on the physics/graphics whore thing. If I play a shooter or something in which the corpses of my foes fly hilariously about and land in heaps, I'll probably be very happy so long as the game's other elements don't let the team down. In contrast, I've seen plenty of games in my day whose undeniable prettiness has done nothing to prevent my dislike of them. Doom 3 is probably the one that pops into my mind first, but a whole load of these modern shooters might fall into the category as well, but I won't go on about CoD and its ilk since that particular pony's been kicked to death already. I was a bit hasty with the whole "graphics whores" business, but these Hollywood-flavoured, big-budgeted shooters with no pacing, pretensions of realism and endless accursed military technobabble just depress me. Even when I manage to get some entertainment out of them, which I definitely do, there are so many times when I find myself wishing I could just grab a minigun and go mad.

I'm going to cut that train of thought before it evolves into a full-fledged rant, but you can probably see where I was going. Some people call Oblivion and such dumb RPGs, and there's some justification for that, but at least they have some merits beyond looking nice. I just don't get that feeling with things like Doom 3, and that's just how my brain works.

Now are we friends?

ADDITIONAL: I forgot to mention that I saw Penumbra and Amnesia as examples of games whose use of physics considerably enhanced the experience. I rambled on quite a bit about that in the Penumbra review, predictably enough.

Well, what I was hoping you'd take away is that if you base your arguments in more universal terms you will be far more relevant.

Saying "I like" "I'm happy with" "My dislike" have no meaning to everyone else other than as a starting point, it's just you telling us what you like and don't like, which is not really that valuable. Yes there has been a lot of discussion her but discussion about how to sort out your poor practices, but a distinct lack of actually discussing the merits or demerits of any given game. Having a whole thread dedicated to talking about you is not constructive.

The reason I am stating this to you in open thread reply is everyone can benefit from the advice of keeping public writings relevant and not just like a diary of your personal preferences. Personal preferences are only widely valued in aggregate, what millions of people all like together. Who cares if just one person likes or dislikes a game? Everyone has an opinion. The value is the INSIGHT from your opinion. Your writing lacks insight.

It is the easiest thing in the world to say what you like and what you don't like, ANYONE can do that. But if you want to write you are going to have to try harder, and make an argument of how and why you feel and given way beyond simply describing the circumstance.

I hope I explained why one could appreciate the graphical repertoire of Doom 3, in how it does enhance the mood of the game which is important for raising the tension and aiding suspension of disbelief of being in an industrial facility on an alien planet. The darkness and shadows play an important gameplay element in how if gives a distinct playstyle, with a lighting engine that casts deep shadows enemies can pop up suddenly and you have to battle them in the light as your flashlight is a separate weapon. That and how very claustrophobic the corridors are.

The controls on PC make this much easier as you can set right-click to switch between torch and other weapons (unlike WB on Original Xbox controller you had to take your thumb off aiming) also the scroll-wheel for weapon selection and setting X, C, V, F, E, T, G and V as weapons shortcuts made it much easier to rise to the challenge of fighting in such dark close quarters against such swift enemies in the dark.

What do I use to base my argument here, not "I Like" or "I hate"; but rather refer to "suspension of disbelief" "tension" "distinct playstyle" and "challenge" elements that are inherently valued but to various extents.

So since you have the attention of a forum thread why don't you contribute more insight with your opinion.

 

[Tryzon]

*snippy*

Valid points as ever, but I still think you're looking a bit too deeply into it. For one thing, I didn't find the piece terribly easy; as stated before, I'm much more used to writing positively, so such an epic rant was actually difficult in places. Despite my misgivings, some folk have said they got something out of it, so I'd say it's been a relative success, though I'd much rather one of my other things had received so much interest.

I've elaborated on my opinions a bit after people have asked me specific things, but I can't just sit down, get typing and expect a wave of insight to flow onto the screen. An opinion piece is exactly that, and though it doesn't make it or the author immune to criticism, I don't think it should be treated in quite the same way as a a proper review, in which I attempt to be as unbiased as humanly possible. I went into this one knowing some unjustified rage would seep through, and there's certainly plenty of that. A review this is not.

I'm also finding it a struggle not to repeat myself now, which is probably a sign I've about outlasted my usefulness.