Poll: USA Invaded...by whom?

[Happy_Mutant]

I've seen it argued (here on the Escapist and out in the real world) that the USA would be the hardest country to invade, and heard some people use this claim as a defense of second amendment rights. I couldn't help thinking at the time "Well who the hell would bother trying to invade the US anyway, even assuming civilians didn't have any guns?"

Now, I don't want this to turn too much in a debate over gun laws; there are plenty of other forums to do that. But I'd like to address this issue just the same. After all, loads of video games, movies and books feature this very scenario. So just how likely is it? What forces will drive and or prevent it? Who will the invaders be/definitely not be? Would an armed resistance from civilians help thwart a invading force, or would a population with no history of invasion and no prolonged conflict inside our borders for a hundred a fifty years leave us so unprepared that we would quickly crumble under the realities of war?

If you think we might be invaded, list the most likely suspects. If you think we won't, list the reason why not. Then, just for the hell of it, tell us how you see it playing out if it did happen. Hopefully by the end of the forum, we'll have the premise for 2013's big blockbuster.

Edit: Fixed the poll so there's an option that the an invasion could happen and an armed population would not make a difference; not sure what happened for, thought I had included it.

 

[GigaHz]

While I don't doubt that it's a potential scenario in several years time, realistically there are only so many nations that are competent enough to take the United States on, and even then they are usually lacking in another area.

For example, China certainly has the ground forces but their air and naval forces don't hold a candle to the US. Hard to move all those ground forces onto foreign soil if your planes and ships keep on getting taken out.

North Korea I can't take seriously as their threats are more of a joke. I remember them threatening to launch a barrage of missiles at Japan. When they actually did it, they missed their target by an almost 300 mile radius and landed in the ocean. That's North Korean tech for you.

Russia is too conflicted with their own politics and corruption to come together and attack the United States. But the Cold War is fairly out of style by today's standards anyway. I'm more inclined to believe that most Russians consider the states an ally. You curious about what a Russian hates? Ask them about Russia.

Saudi Arabia/Pakistan most certainly have the funds but like Russia the average population (aside from their version of rednecks) mistrusts or secretly hates their governing bodies. I doubt that they would be able to compile a force that could take on the United States. At least, unless the Taliban starts to take influence in more countries and gain supporters.

Edit. Also, you need to make an option for the invading army to win.

 

[witheringsanity]

No, for the same reason we never technically battled russia during the cold war: nuclear weapons. the only force big enough to make an invasion would have to be backed by a country, and a country can be nuked. so unless they first found a way to disassemble/shut down our nuclear capabilities, it would never ever happen.

for this reason they also couldn't nuke us first, the mutually assured destcruction thing

 

[yuval152]

90% of video games is saying that Russia will invade US but somehow the US will win.

OT:Why invadeing what the US did to be invaded?

 

[Simalacrum]

I would argue that an invasion is highly unlikely, not because its impossible to invade the United States, but rather because nobody really wants to; amongst the most developed nations on the planet, there hasn't been any invading one another for many, many years. When was the last time you heard one of the major global powers fighting another major global power? Not since the Second World War, really.

No, these days I would say the superiority of a nation is guided by economy much more than military for the super powers of the world. And in that respect, I think that China is the up and rising star, in comparison to the slowly dying US economy. Pretty much all analysts agree that China will overtake the US's economy in the next few decades.

Therefore, I would argue that, if this becomes the case, an invasion of the US is not only possible, but near enough inevitable.

Scary thought eh?

However, I do not mean through military invasion - as I said, super powers aren't really into invading each other anymore, what with nuclear weapons and the general opinion of the masses being far more geared towards wanting peace rather than war these days and whatnot.

What I mean is a cultural invasion, and this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Just as today we see American culture virtually everywhere, if China becomes a larger economy than the US soon, we'll likely see Chinese culture spread out through the Eastern and Western world far more than we already do. Heck, Japanese culture has been embraced by the West long ago, and thats partially because the Japanese had such a booming economy that allowed them to spread modern Japanese culture to the globe.
Despite this, US culture will still play a major role across the world; its not about to stop becoming a super-power anytime soon after all, even if it'll no longer be the super power of the world. Therefore, I reckon we'll have a rather interesting mix of US and Chinese culture spread across the globe in the near future, both of which can be considered 'invasions' of sorts.

So, yeah, the US being invaded is certainly possible. But not in the military way, and not in the bad way either.

 

[Dyme]

Don't know if you knew it, but the US has nukes.

And civilians don't do shit in war.

 

[A Shadows Age]

I don't know about the hardest, I would say that depending on who the enemy encounters the difficulty in achieving success would scale from a cake walk to suicide. I think if there are any countries that pose a massive threat it would be china and maybe later on Russia, not that they would as of right now, (fuck we are some of china's best customers) and aside from old grudges and power I'm not sure why Russia would bother either. Oh and I really don't want us starting shit with ither, we couldn't afford it. As for a organized resistance, I wouldn't get my hopes up, not that we civies would do any better against a real army than the taliwads are doing against ours. Want some fun, look up helicopter kills in Afghanistan and Iraq, observe the effects of explosive rounds and night vision.

We have a history of invasion by the way, in the second war for Independence, the war of 1812. Has no one ever heard the fucking star spangled banner or what? This is kindergarten level history stuff, first white house burns, fucking tornadoes wiping out the redcoats... Hello anyone ? jeez.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Insanely easy.

And they've already done it.

Just look above you...

 

[spartan231490]

I've seen it argued (here on the Escapist and out in the real world) that the USA would be the hardest country to invade, and heard some people use this claim as a defense of second amendment rights. I couldn't help thinking at the time "Well who the hell would bother trying to invade the US anyway, even assuming civilians didn't have any guns?"

Now, I don't want this to turn too much in a debate over gun laws; there are plenty of other forums to do that. But I'd like to address this issue just the same. After all, loads of video games, movies and books feature this very scenario. So just how likely is it? What forces will drive and or prevent it? Who will the invaders be/definitely not be? Would an armed resistance from civilians help thwart a invading force, or would a population with no history of invasion and no prolonged conflict inside our borders for a hundred a fifty years leave us so unprepared that we would quickly crumble under the realities of war?

If you think we might be invaded, list the most likely suspects. If you think we won't, list the reason why not. Then, just for the hell of it, tell us how you see it playing out if it did happen. Hopefully by the end of the forum, we'll have the premise for 2013's big blockbuster.

It's very unlikely and if it did happen, the armed populace would make it impossible to hold. However, there is one scenario that makes the invasion a little more likely. If the American economy completely collapses, which is exactly what some people are predicting to happen in the next 5 years or so, then another country could invade us with the pretense of giving humanitarian aid, or just to protect our missile silos from being breached by the ensuing chaos. It would probably be Russia or China or both that would do that, and that changes things a little because just providing food would probably make them our new accepted overlords.

However, as things stand now, our military being so powerful, our nation being so big and geographically diverse, and our populace being armed are 3 reasons why no invasion of the US would be successful.

 

[Bad Jim]

The invasion of any nuclear power is unlikely. Invading them pretty much guarantees you'll lose a few major cities, so there's nothing to gain.

I'd say America is actually more likely to be invaded by extraterrestrials than other countries. Logic suggests they exist, and if they decided to invade they could do it without risking the destruction of their homeland. If they attacked, they would completely pwn our measly earthling defences.

As for the second amendment guys, I don't think just having a pile of assault rifles is that useful in a modern war. It's tanks, planes, choppers etc that count, and you need to be either have them or be competent with hardware that can take them out.

 

[Dr Snakeman]

I'm not voting until you have a poll option of "Wait, seriously? How are you even asking this question?"

The United States won't be invaded, for pretty much every possible reason.

-It's way too big to hold.

-Our citizens have guns.

-No one with the resources to invade hates us enough to do so.

-Even if they did, it would probably be the costliest war (in terms of lives lost and money spent) in the history of ever.

-We have nukes, and the second-largest and best funded military on the planet.

-Other countries simply wouldn't stand for it. As a primary western super power, we are vital to the global economy, and to just about everything else with "global" in the description.


I could go on, but I think you get it. The answer is "not happening".

 

[RipRoaringWaterfowl]

If a country does manage to invade the U.S., the U.S. is probably screwed. The reason is because the generals in the U.S. Military are rather incompetent. They forgo the tried, true, and smart tactics outlined in Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" that were used by them as recently as WWII. Why do you think they're failing in Afghanistan? It's not the troops. It's the generals. No amount of armed civilians, high tech weapons, or numbers can make up for incompetence in the highest ranks of command.

 

[ralfy]

Probably not necessary if around 40 pct of U.S. military costs are already being funded through foreign loans.

 

[Exterminas]

I laugh at the assumption that the armed populace would actually be useful during an invasion.

Be honest: The first thing the americans are going to the the instant the nation falls under martial law is to loot and pillage = turning their arms against eachother to get whatever they can grab.

Look at how it goes with natrual desasters like catherina.

 

[Robert0288]

US wont be invaded by a foreign power, whats far more likely is that american society will factionalize and they will start killing each other and lead to a civil war.

As for the second amendment guys, I don't think just having a pile of assault rifles is that useful in a modern war. It's tanks, planes, choppers etc that count, and you need to be either have them or be competent with hardware that can take them out.

I heard afganistan and iraq have done fairly well for themselves using insurgent techniques. Most technologically advanced militaries in the world are having major problems with the man with a gun, some homemade explosives and some ingenuity.



edit: missed quotation

 

[Coffinshaker]

why invade when you can nuke?

 

[FalloutJack]

Don't you understand? The U.S was already invaded. By the Irish! Those trolls! Stealing your jobs, women and land!

Laddie, you'd better be green inside and taking the piss for irony's sake, or I'm going to have to make like Notre Dame's mascot and show me dukes.

(Funny, I didn't know it was called the Green Scare now.)

 

[Verlander]

I'm not voting until you have a poll option of "Wait, seriously? How are you even asking this question?"

The United States won't be invaded, for pretty much every possible reason.

-It's way too big to hold.

-Our citizens have guns.

-No one with the resources to invade hates us enough to do so.

-Even if they did, it would probably be the costliest war (in terms of lives lost and money spent) in the history of ever.

-We have nukes, and the second-largest and best funded military on the planet.

-Other countries simply wouldn't stand for it. As a primary western super power, we are vital to the global economy, and to just about everything else with "global" in the description.


I could go on, but I think you get it. The answer is "not happening".

Those reasons all pale in comparison to the two main reasons of a) you are situated on the arse of the world, and it's effort to get to you, and b) there is no point, as there is nothing of value to be gained from it.

Every single war involving America has been on foreign soil, apart from wars against Mexico, the Pearl Harbour attack (which I'll point out isn't mainland America, and Hawaii is even more pointless to invade), or the war of independence, which was mostly fought be foreign armies navally for their own personal gain, before the British gave up, because there wasn't much point in keeping you.

Seeing how many Americans shoot, I can safely say that armed citizens mean exactly dick to professional soldiers, don't bank on how much other countries like you, especially if they are the ones doing the invading, and other countries have nukes too. Remember the cold war? I can tell you now, America didn't win that for any reason that they were responsible for.

Sorry man, but the track record of the yank army isn't that great, global positioning is where you win. Just like how Britain used to be a strategic point, before flight.

These are the reasons that Sept 11th was so shocking for Americans, despite bigger tragedies happening annually around the world. It was like a baby being stung by a bee while everyone else was rolling in nettles.