Poll: Video Games = Art

[matsugawa]

Yes they are art, but for video games to thrive as art they must establish themselves as something other than a hybrid of other arts.

I think you're onto something; someone once said that Multimedia is the name we give to something which hasn't succeeded. Film and Television were multimedia (combining photography, radio, and stage theater) before they achieved culturlal ubiquity. Basically, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, so by video-games bringing interactivity to the front, they've basically established themselves as a full-fledged medium.

 

[Frybird]

Hardly....but then again Movies are referred to as Art...so yes, they are.

 

[FROGGEman2]

I vote no, because games have the potential to be art, yet so far all the arty games are mainly just art and have no actual... well, game part.

 

[matsugawa]

I guess you could say the craptacular Linger in Shadows was art... it cost me five bucks for seven minutes. This is a video game, not prostitution!

The developers of Linger never intended the piece to be regarded as a game; it's interactive art using technology and hardware used for rendering real-time graphics. That may sound like hair-splitting, but the point is, interactive art does not equate to being a video-game.

 

[Ushario]

This came up recently to some extent in an editors column here on the escapist.

The closer you get towards a game being art, the more you corrupt the idea of free will in a game.

Half Life 2, was a step towards making a game into a piece of art. It skillfully takes away a players control to create an emotional response. From a gameplay point of view, this might be a step backwards, however for the player it is a leap forward.

To me games relate well to both movies and books, only games are interactive. Both movies and books are considered art, the problem to me, is that it is so much harder to create events in games because a player can influence them so heavily.

 

[Tattaglia]

I guess you could say the craptacular Linger in Shadows was art... it cost me five bucks for seven minutes. This is a video game, not prostitution!

The developers of Linger never intended the piece to be regarded as a game; it's interactive art using technology and hardware used for rendering real-time graphics. That may sound like hair-splitting, but the point is, interactive art does not equate to being a video-game.

I understand that, but seven minutes? Seven minutes?! It was like the developers held out a hand filled with delicious bonbons, and then yanked it away from me. Then they laughed and kicked me. And then took five dollars. And then kicked me some more.

 

[Acaroid]

So I had to post this because of what i read on my other post about why everyone rags on the ps3. I was reading through the responses, thoroughly satisfied with arguments and counter-arguments that had sparked up, and i came across someone who claimed that video games are not a form of art. I have to disagree with that statement. I believe that video games may be the ultimate form of art; they incorporate all forms art: music, drawing, animation, writing, acting, and any other I have missed. I would like everyone's opinion on the subject, and if there is anyone who has worked on the creation of a video game, I am begging to hear your opinion on the accusation that video games are not an art from.

Define art and I will tell you yes or no... but Im afraid no one here...or anywhere could really define art could they?? what gives some the right to define something as art or not, or what art is??

Art in general is more about intention more than what it is... So if the person who created wants to think and claim it as art, then yes they could be... but if the person who created it just thinks it as a media for entertainment, then so be it...
same as interactive art, if the person intends it to be art in the form of a video game... so be it... it is all intention intention intention...

so really your question are video games art... I would have to give a big fat...maybe...

and I think you should make that a choice...

 

[Fangface74]

For the over nine thousandth time, video games are not art and I for one am mighty glad for that fact. I don't want art. I want FUN. The two are mutually exclusive as far as my gaming tastes are concerned.

Finally! Someone who doesn't pander to the herd!

Let me explain very simply why games are not art, there are two distinct categories; Art & DESIGN, Design is a PRODUCT (Car, CD Rack, Lemon Squeezer etc), it has a function to perform which has already been laid out, it's DESIGN (how nice it looks) has not. Someone sits down, has a go at making it look the best it can without compromising it's function.

Ergo, Video Games are a commercial product requiring Art direction, but will ultimately succumb to design, things have moved on so much graphically that there are some nice moments in gaming, but Shadow of the Collossus is just Donkey Kong a bit further down the line, a natural progression but nothing more. Donkey isn't considered Art, and a higher polygon count doesn't suddenly shift a game into the Art side

 

[Acaroid]

For the over nine thousandth time, video games are not art and I for one am mighty glad for that fact. I don't want art. I want FUN. The two are mutually exclusive as far as my gaming tastes are concerned.

Finally! Someone who doesn't pander to the herd!

Let me explain very simply why games are not art, there are two distinct categories; Art & DESIGN, Design is a PRODUCT (Car, CD Rack, Lemon Squeezer etc), it has a function to perform which has already been laid out, it's DESIGN (how nice it looks) has not. Someone sits down, has a go at making it look the best it can without compromising it's function.

Ergo, Video Games are a commercial product requiring Art direction, but will ultimately succumb to design, things have moved on so much graphically that there are some nice moments in gaming, but Shadow of the Collossus is just Donkey Kong a bit further down the line, a natural progression but nothing more. Donkey isn't considered Art, and a higher polygon count doesn't suddenly shift a game into the Art side

So your saying a lemon squeezer cant be art??? are you saying something like...a toilet cant be art?? or lets say a toilet hanging on the wall upside down??

I should make an exibition and just fill it with xboxs and TV's and just have games of (various random titles) and just end this now!!! it will have to be a yes wouldnt it...because someone has made the video games art... it will be a form of intereactive found art...

/end thread

edit:btw yes I am an practising artist so it would be legit

 

[HectorTheLamerGamer]

It depends on how you define art.

 

[Fangface74]

For the over nine thousandth time, video games are not art and I for one am mighty glad for that fact. I don't want art. I want FUN. The two are mutually exclusive as far as my gaming tastes are concerned.

Finally! Someone who doesn't pander to the herd!

Let me explain very simply why games are not art, there are two distinct categories; Art & DESIGN, Design is a PRODUCT (Car, CD Rack, Lemon Squeezer etc), it has a function to perform which has already been laid out, it's DESIGN (how nice it looks) has not. Someone sits down, has a go at making it look the best it can without compromising it's function.

Ergo, Video Games are a commercial product requiring Art direction, but will ultimately succumb to design, things have moved on so much graphically that there are some nice moments in gaming, but Shadow of the Collossus is just Donkey Kong a bit further down the line, a natural progression but nothing more. Donkey isn't considered Art, and a higher polygon count doesn't suddenly shift a game into the Art side

So your saying a lemon squeezer cant be art??? are you saying something like...a toilet cant be art?? or lets say a toilet hanging on the wall upside down??

I should make an exibition and just fill it with xboxs and TV's and just have games of (various random titles) and just end this now!!! it will have to be a yes wouldnt it...because someone has made the video games art... it will be a form of intereactive found art...

/end thread

"lemon squeezer cant be art??? are you saying something like...a toilet cant be art??"

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, your local hardware store would become an Art gallery if you had your way But...if you take the lemon squeezer, toilet etc, remove it from solely performing it's function, place it into a context that tries to touch the viewer, strike a chord, comment on the 'nature of things' whatever your take on that is, then your in the realm of Art. Video games don't go beyond their function, no game designer EVER though beyond the titles end credits and the revenue it would hopefully generate.

And to be honest, why should they?

Art & video gaming both entertain but sharing a quality doesn't make two things the same.

 

[Acaroid]

"lemon squeezer cant be art??? are you saying something like...a toilet cant be art??"

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, your local hardware store would become an Art gallery if you had your way But...if you take the lemon squeezer, toilet etc, remove it from solely performing it's function, place it into a context that tries to touch the viewer, strike a chord, comment on the 'nature of things' whatever your take on that is, then your in the realm of Art. Video games don't go beyond their function, no game designer EVER though beyond the titles end credits and the revenue it would hopefully generate.

Well as my previous comment said (further up) that art is about intention... so yes the person who designed the lemon squeezer, or video game didnt think or intend something to become art...someone can place that intention onto the object... as in the case of Marcel Duchamp and what I was sneakly getting at lol.
Art is such a messed up thing you really cant define it... because as soon as someone says "no it isnt art" someone comes along and goes "hahaha guess what, ill make it art just to prove you wrong".... so yeah your hardware store could become a gallery, if someone wishes it to be...

so in the correct context anything can be art..including video games... but is it art, isnt up to me, you or anyone to really say because no-one really has a clear definition of what art is and means, espcially in out post post modern world we live in.

 

[Sewblon]

Yes they are art, but for video games to thrive as art they must establish themselves as something other than a hybrid of other arts.

I think you're onto something; someone once said that Multimedia is the name we give to something which hasn't succeeded. Film and Television were multimedia (combining photography, radio, and stage theater) before they achieved culturlal ubiquity. Basically, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, so by video-games bringing interactivity to the front, they've basically established themselves as a full-fledged medium.

To a degree that is true but more and more narrative games are phasing out interactivity in favor of spectacle, for example Bioshock, in which the choices the player makes have only token difference in outcome because the designers wanted people to be able to finish their game regardless of what choice the player made. My point is, interactive story telling has advanced but many popular design choices in narrative gaming are bad for the medium in the long run.

 

[SimuLord]

Video games are generally corporate art. Video games are art in the same sense that Jackie Chan movies are art. Take from that what you will, I guess.

What I take from that is that you can't call art alive and well when more people know the Ninja Turtles than know the works of the Renaissance artists they're named after (especially Donatello.)

That's high art, and the whole point of high art is that it's inaccessible to the majority of people, reserved for only the upper class. High art is just as healthy as it's ever been; we don't know because we're not billionaires or art snobs.

And that's exactly the sort of art form the arthouse snobs want gaming to become so that all the Madden and Halo-playing frat boys and the Wii and Rock Band playing sorority sisters can leave the snobs to their nerdy exclusivity. Never mind the fact that it is now even easier to get laid by a sorority girl than it's ever been before---you don't even need to learn how to play a real guitar, not when you can play a cheap fake plastic one for the same rock-star screw-the-girls effect. Where was Guitar Hero when I was in my early 20s? I was born too soon. I could've been banging slutty sorority chicks and giving new meaning to the OVER NINE THOUSAND meme.

 

[Fangface74]

"lemon squeezer cant be art??? are you saying something like...a toilet cant be art??"

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, your local hardware store would become an Art gallery if you had your way But...if you take the lemon squeezer, toilet etc, remove it from solely performing it's function, place it into a context that tries to touch the viewer, strike a chord, comment on the 'nature of things' whatever your take on that is, then your in the realm of Art. Video games don't go beyond their function, no game designer EVER though beyond the titles end credits and the revenue it would hopefully generate.

Well as my previous comment said (further up) that art is about intention... so yes the person who designed the lemon squeezer, or video game didnt think or intend something to become art...someone can place that intention onto the object... as in the case of Marcel Duchamp and what I was sneakly getting at lol.
Art is such a messed up thing you really cant define it... because as soon as someone says "no it isnt art" someone comes along and goes "hahaha guess what, ill make it art just to prove you wrong".... so yeah your hardware store could become a gallery, if someone wishes it to be...

so in the correct context anything can be art..including video games... but is it art, isnt up to me, you or anyone to really say because no-one really has a clear definition of what art is and means, espcially in out post post modern world we live in.

I think any scrutiny into Duchamp's process would illustrate how games aren't Art (via the deconstruction/reconstruction), the playing of the game would had to have been removed, the hardware store as art can't ever be used as a hardware store, sure you can take any game and make some kind of statement about it, but you can't do this through playing the games levels through, which is what we are referring to: the playing of the game itself..as art, and if you tried to turn it into a thought provoking comment, it wouldn't be about playing the levels through any more, which is why it was designed.

But your right about our Post Modern predicament (excellent point in fact! I can see it destroying my argument tbh!)

 

[TheMasterGL16]

Here's how I see it. If you view movies as an art form you HAVE to see video games as an art form. ANYONE who challenges me I say GO BUY Grim Fandango, Half-Life 2, The Last Express, The Dig, Unreal Tournament 3.

 

[Willwillwritehiswill]

While there is shovelware and casual crap aplently, games will never be considered art in my opinion.

 

[Acaroid]

"lemon squeezer cant be art??? are you saying something like...a toilet cant be art??"

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, your local hardware store would become an Art gallery if you had your way But...if you take the lemon squeezer, toilet etc, remove it from solely performing it's function, place it into a context that tries to touch the viewer, strike a chord, comment on the 'nature of things' whatever your take on that is, then your in the realm of Art. Video games don't go beyond their function, no game designer EVER though beyond the titles end credits and the revenue it would hopefully generate.

Well as my previous comment said (further up) that art is about intention... so yes the person who designed the lemon squeezer, or video game didnt think or intend something to become art...someone can place that intention onto the object... as in the case of Marcel Duchamp and what I was sneakly getting at lol.
Art is such a messed up thing you really cant define it... because as soon as someone says "no it isnt art" someone comes along and goes "hahaha guess what, ill make it art just to prove you wrong".... so yeah your hardware store could become a gallery, if someone wishes it to be...

so in the correct context anything can be art..including video games... but is it art, isnt up to me, you or anyone to really say because no-one really has a clear definition of what art is and means, espcially in out post post modern world we live in.

I think any scrutiny into Duchamp's process would illustrate how games aren't Art (via the deconstruction/reconstruction), the playing of the game would had to have been removed, the hardware store as art can't ever be used as a hardware store, sure you can take any game and make some kind of statement about it, but you can't do this through playing the games levels through, which is what we are referring to: the playing of the game itself..as art, and if you tried to turn it into a thought provoking comment, it wouldn't be about playing the levels through any more, which is why it was designed.

But your right about our Post Modern predicament (excellent point in fact! I can see it destroying my argument tbh!)

LoL yeah post post modrenism has a habbit of destroying everyones arguments... no matter what it is :|

I would be seeing it like Man Ray's and gift, 1921. where it obviously took away the objects original purpose, what it was designed to do, but in doing it, because more about what the artist wants it to be, rather than what it was desgined for.

I honestly agree that game designers dont desgin art, so in that I agree with you. But the fact that we could turn these games into art and label them as so, if we so wish, without that intention being put on by the designer, really cant be denied...

But if say, like my example of putting video games in a gallery for people to play. I have taken the objects and the games and placed them in a space to be considered as art. This art has meaning to it and can be easily labled as found, interactive, performance art. So the piece would not only be about the games being played, but the people playing said games and the interaction with it, the intereaction of people playing the games together (in split screen, or lan, or even wan/internet) also about the people watching the people play games.

You could dribble on about how the piece is about interaction on a different level in contemporary society and how different methods of communication and story telling are effecting and the way that people as a singularity and groups interact with the technology.

So in just one small exibition, I have taken the idea of the video game, and easily brought it over from being just a desgined entertainment, into the realm of art... Now the question is, after taking this out of that context, would the video games still be art, in its own right??? or are they even art befor you place them into this context, is the fact Ive even come up with an idea about how they could be easily, without a doubt make them art enough to have them classed as art...

this is where the lines get all blurry....

you could easily state that no, of course not, but yet again you could say yes they are...

this is why in my original statment I said maybe... Im sitting on the fence and my rap up statment is

Game designers (on a whole) don't originally design the games to be art, they do design artistic ideas within the games (pictures, music etc) but they do not intend it to be art.
You can, if you wish, make games art (as in make a game that is art, or take a game and make it art, against the intention of the design) and label them so, but it is unsure if you can label them art within every context.

that basically sums up my ideas...