Poll: Videogames and Women

[CaptainKarma]

I've been trying to get my sister into videogames lately (need an extra player for my HoN team), but one thing that's putting her off is the utterly reprehensible attitude that games, and gamers, have towards women.

We've all laughed at the Evony ads. But even mainstream games like

Spoiler: Mass Effect

Spoiler: Soul Calibur

Spoiler: Ninja Gaiden

treat their female characters like...pieces of meat to be drooled over. Is this really the image we should be presenting to the world? The press is quick to label games as juvenile adolescent male fantasies and our response is to EMBRACE this criticism? What the hell?

And the community is barely any better. Friends of mine regularly keep their identities secret (unless teamspeak is involved) because of the torrent of abuse they get online. Don't believe me? Check out the fabulous http://fatuglyorslutty.com/ to see the vitriol lady gamers get.

This attitude is PERVASIVE. Look at Battlefield 3, banning women from its launch party (rather than telling the men "Dude, don't be a creep"), the creator of a fighting game (forget which, MvC maybe? I've lost the link) discussing, in a panel about female character design, which of his creations he'd like to have sex with.

Games have an image problem. But we don't want to fix it, we're happy in our little corner with our boobalicious characters and internalised misogyny.

We can be so much BETTER than this. How can we expect gaming to be taken seriously as an artform, and as a hobby, when we're happy to let this behaviour run unchecked?

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Room for improvement. I wouldn't call it a "travesty," but I can't say as I entirely blame your sister.

It should be noted, however, that I've got less of an issue with the cheesecake than with the behavior of the fans. (And I strongly recommend that everyone watch Moviebob's video on the topic. Should be enlightening.)

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Isn't "Tolerable" and "room for improvement" basically the same thing?

OP may have meant "no real opinion" by "tolerable." It may not be entirely correct usage, but I've seen it used that way quite a bit.

 

[Slash Dementia]

I hate that females have to go through this and have their gender looked on that way. There's not much that I can do about it. I don't like it, but I don't let it bother me unless my girlfriend gets upset about it. I also think it's because of her that I see just how much women in media are looked upon as if they were a piece of meat; I realized before, but I didn't care enough to think too much on it.

People can do so much better, but they don't.

 

[Space Spoons]

I would say it's gotten better over the years, but it's still a pretty big problem. Unfortunately, it's not the sort of issue that can be fixed over night. It'll fade with time, but waiting is really about all you can do. If your sister's waiting on the gaming community to mature before she gets into it, she's probably not going to be getting into gaming this decade.

 

[CaptainKarma]

Room for improvement. I wouldn't call it a "travesty," but I can't say as I entirely blame your sister.

It should be noted, however, that I've got less of an issue with the cheesecake than with the behavior of the fans. (And I strongly recommend that everyone watch Moviebob's video on the topic. Should be enlightening.)

That was an alright episode. And predictably the comments are full of "feminist bitches amirite?" responses, which is exactly the problem. Huge swathes of the gamer population aren't just unconcerned, they're incapable of considering the problem even when challenged.

And yeah, tolerable maybe isnt quite accurate. The poll system doesn't like apostrophes in answers it seems, got a bit mangled on the rewrite.

 

[Windcaler]

Theres definately room for improvement. One thing to keep in mind is that certain games like soul calibur are made to be titalating. They've always been that way and I dont really see a problem with them staying that way as long as theyre upfront with what theyre trying to be.

As far as that Miranda picture goes, there are some cases in the ME series where you see the backside of a guy during conversation too so I dont see the problem. Fair is fair, as long as I get to look at women in skin tight body suits the girls can see some guys in them.

Then theres another issue that you tend to only focus on the negatives instead of the positives. Bayonetta for example is a great character who's design is oversexualized but if you play the game you find out that shes sexy because she wants to be. Its part of her character and that makes it redeeming IMO

 

[Erttheking]

I don't think that it's that bad, but a couple more Samus Arans (PRE METROID OTHER M THAT IS) wouldn't hurt either. Also you can't accuse Mass Effect of being sexist when you've got Tali Kasumi, and FemShep running around, Miranda is sexed up, but the thing is it fits her character.

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

Speaking as a female, of the three images you listed, the only two I have a problem with are the second two. The first one is a pretty gratuitous butt shot, but I've been playing through ME1 and ME2 lately and I've seen it give me some pretty awkward camera angles. Throughout throughout the rest of the game it doesn't throw much at you, and you have the opportunity to punch and rebuke people when they get too creepy on you, so I'm not too worried about Mass Effect.

I do dislike the other two though, advertising a game with a well-rendered pair of breasts. Movies advertise like this too sometimes, but unless it's intended to be one of those "over the top" physical comedy movies they don't JUST slap a pair of breasts on the poster and call it a day. And skimpy outfits are not inherently "sexist," but if that's the only thing the character has to show or the developers want to show, then that is a problem. Games have gotten better about this with time, slowly, but they still have a long way to go as a whole.

 

[CaptainKarma]

I dont really have that much of an issue with how women are displayed in games. Ya I know its rare to find one who isnt just there to be a sex object/piece of meat but it just doesnt bother me but I think it is a major part of the problem.

What does bother me is the people who play these games and how they treat women is absolutely disgusting. I would get more respect as a women if fucking iran then from the people playing battlefield. Its absolutely in no fucking way at all acceptable. I dont know wether the issue is that these people are repressed dirty stinking sexist pigs or that they actually think women should be treated that way because thats how they are represented in games. Sadly these forums are really not much better.


I understand sex sells though which is why I dont really have that much of a problem with the way games are advertised.

If the games stop encouraging people to treat women like pieces of meat, maybe they'll stop?

Also, Lilani, Windcaler and errtheking, I'm not sure I buy your arguments. The character isn't sexualised because they want to be, they're sexualised because they were designed that way, and given a personality to match. Bayonetta is a weird example, I can't decide whether it's gratuitous objectification or a sex-positive portrayal of a dominant woman. Fine line to walk there.

 

[RagTagBand]

Honestly if they just toned down the sexualisation a touch i'd be happy.

If they sexualised the women as much as they "Man"'d the men (ie brick shit house, bearded, gravely voiced, muscle bound, short brown hair, more than a little bit of a douchebag etc) I think i'd be okay with it, but currently the women are a nose ahead in the "Charicatures of genders" race.

Really though, If i'd improve any "Equality" thing in games it would be fat people. I want to see more fat people in games, just chilling out or as characters, And I mean FAT not "300 pounds but 80% is muscle"; Jelly rolls and visible odor.

The absence of these people in games is as noticeable as the lack of Children in games.

 

[Something Amyss]

We've all laughed at the Evony ads.

*raises hand*

I didn't. I didn't see what was funny or surprising, because this really isn't new ground.

I am surprised it even got a reaction at this point.

So yes, I'm inclined to agree that this is kind of a sad state of affairs, in that the bar isn't exactly that high in general.

 

[Loki J]

Try her on a game that's gender tame, like LotR: War in the North. Even has a fully dressed female protagonist!

Z

 

[RastaBadger]

Though I think the games industry certainly needs better female characters more along the lines of Alyx Vance than... well pretty much any female character not from Valve, the major problem is the way male gamers react to female gamers (and in some cases to other male gamers). I feel weird just making the distinction between them as if they are completely different groups. I treat male and female gamers exactly the same (or at least I try to. A lot of the time I'm a little more nervous around the female gamers due to me just not being that good with girls but I try to treat them the same). As long as they can play the game they shouldn't get any stick for it (and if they can't then they should be treated like all noobs. That is with constructive criticism and helpful advice to help them get better)
I suppose what I'm trying to say is a mix of "Why can't we all just get along" and "Why can't we all stop swearing for 5 minutes, we sound like 12 year olds who just learned the F word".

 

[mental_looney]

I'm just sad my boobies aren't as shiny as the ones in soul calibur now :'<

Tbh there are far more games that are better than the fighting games and that single screenshot shows mass effect in a bad light when it's got multiple strong female characters in it.

Female characters are sexual fantasies, male characters are power fantasies so there is room for better characters all around.