How did I miss that? I...I feel shame right now. Are gamer guys that dickish around girls that someone felt the need to actively separate the two?Farseer Lolotea said:
Poll: Videogames and Women
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At very least? Apparently, someone was that chickenshit on the subject of gamer guys being dickish around girls that they felt the need to do that.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
The male 18-34 demographic is dominant in entertainment. Stuff aimed at women is specialised and niche as a rule. I don't know what America you're talking about.BrionJames said:
But you didn't answer my question. Is male oriented entertainment wrong? Should such a thing be suppressed and censored? The op implies there is something wrong with the three games from the pictures. I just don't get what it is.Farseer Lolotea said:
The games industry used to be 90% male but that changed a long time ago. Devs need to realize that and make games with different demographics in mind and gamers need to stop trying to censor games.
I like how only one or two people in this thread touch on the fact this makes the male gamers like idiots that buy games because of a pair of big boobs in the games. The thing is the oversexualization of female characters in games looks bad on both genders.
A bit more on topic: Honestly, there will always be room for improvement. The only way I see no more room for improvement is when women have crushed gravel for the sound of there voice with super-musculer bodies and men have over sized body parts to make them oversexualized. Saints row the Third helped with the latter of the two.
Edit: Oh, yeah. I forgot. That Miranda picture is an camera angle that hardly happens. When it does, it also happens to Jacob( not sure if that's the right name) and some other characters male and female also, what people are saying about Miranda's "cat suit" I can say about almost every male's shirt. I mean, they look like if they move too much they'll tear the shirt. Not saying its ok, just if we're going to talk sexualized clothes lets talk about all of it not just some of it.
A bit more on topic: Honestly, there will always be room for improvement. The only way I see no more room for improvement is when women have crushed gravel for the sound of there voice with super-musculer bodies and men have over sized body parts to make them oversexualized. Saints row the Third helped with the latter of the two.
Edit: Oh, yeah. I forgot. That Miranda picture is an camera angle that hardly happens. When it does, it also happens to Jacob( not sure if that's the right name) and some other characters male and female also, what people are saying about Miranda's "cat suit" I can say about almost every male's shirt. I mean, they look like if they move too much they'll tear the shirt. Not saying its ok, just if we're going to talk sexualized clothes lets talk about all of it not just some of it.
There's nothing inherently wrong with male orientated games. If you're a fan of fighting games, Soul Calibur has more than just Ivy's tits going for them (Of course, what turned me away from the series as if it were the plague was watching my brother make loli after highschool girl in the character creation but I assume that most people don't have this problem.) The portrayal of women in these sort of games isn't that bad in itself, so I don't think that it requires that big of a fuss. Characters are characters and if designers want to make big breasted women in their games, that's up to them. In many games, there are other women to counteract these ones. For every Ivy, there is a Xianghua or Taki. Where you have Miranda, there's Tali, Ashley, ect ect ect.
Yea, of course there is room for improvement. This is a medium that is still being developed, like movies, books, and all sorts. Sometimes there are steps back, but there's nothing wrong with sexuality in gaming, no matter what some newsgroups or political parties might say. I will, however, keep my fingers crossed for posters that focus on male character's dongs or glistening muscles, just to see male gamer's reactions to them. Maybe it'll be on par with female reactions to Soul Calibur posters.
Yea, of course there is room for improvement. This is a medium that is still being developed, like movies, books, and all sorts. Sometimes there are steps back, but there's nothing wrong with sexuality in gaming, no matter what some newsgroups or political parties might say. I will, however, keep my fingers crossed for posters that focus on male character's dongs or glistening muscles, just to see male gamer's reactions to them. Maybe it'll be on par with female reactions to Soul Calibur posters.
room for improvement definitely.
granted i'm not a woman, so can't quite judge as closely, but it can get a bit "over the top" with them trying to sell it in games sometimes.
granted i'm not a woman, so can't quite judge as closely, but it can get a bit "over the top" with them trying to sell it in games sometimes.
There's a significant difference between criticism and "censorship."Fieldy409 said:
As for "male-oriented entertainment," that depends on whether or not your definition of "male-oriented" is "treats the viewer like a lonely and slightly clueless adolescent boy." In which case, don't you think that's kind of condescending on the companies' part?
But as I've stated before: my issue is more with the behavior of fans than with the games themselves. Now, to some degree, it's a vicious cycle; the good old "sex sells" excuse. But as far as I'm concerned, if some fanboy starts making lewd emotes at my mage, it's not Blizzard's fault for designing female draenei. It's that fanboy's fault for being a trashy little douche.
See above: I wholeheartedly agree.soulfire130 said:
See: people insisting that male castanics in TERA are just as skeevy as their sisters, freak-outs over that emo elf in Dragon Age, the response to the Alex Ross Superman cover...Fieldy409 said:
As a female I actually don't mind how women are portrayed in games. I understand the argument but if cosmetic appearance doesn't effect gameplay, then the developers should have the freedom to make the characters look how they want. I really enjoyed Bayonetta but part of that was because of how she came across. In fact, my favorite thing, after I beat the game, was unlocking all the different costumes for her like she was a doll. (I'm straight btw so this isn't about having a girl crush lol)
Personally, I think Rift does a good job. Say what you like about the armor (there are some plate bikinis); but it's got some standouts like Asha Catari and Dacia Ultan, characterization-wise.Forlong said:
but how does mass effect or soul caliber treat you like a lonely adolescent? Is that the only sort of male who appreciates sex appeal in games? Because an adult with a girlfriend will never appreciate the sex appeal in a game like mass effect or soul caliber?Farseer Lolotea said:
By treating the viewer like someone who needs to drool over pixels. Or, in some cases, has an odd idea of what "sexy ladies" actually look like (not saying any of those games, in particular, fall into the uncanny valley...but I've seen some).Fieldy409 said:
And "sex appeal" is pretty subjective. Some people complained that the new Lara Croft "wasn't hawt any longer," others said that she was better-looking than ever. Additionally, characters can be sexy without making a show of it.
I'm a girl and I'm insulted by it exactly, I just think it's a little pathetic. Do developers really really feel the need for their female characters to be sexy? If it has something to do with their personality that's different but if it's just for the hell of it then, really? And the whole sex sells thing I think its both lazy and insulting. Not all guys are ruled by their dicks you know, they are capable of seeing boobs and having rational thoughts at the same time. And by going with sex appeal they're basically saying 'we can't be bothered thinking of a way to make you want to buy this so here have some boobs'.
Most people don't get defensive about it. I'm the only one debating with you here. most people seem to take your view on the Internet.. I just think its unfair that people want to tell game makers how to make their games. Sexuality is part of human nature and part of everyone's fantasies in their own minds, so why can't we put it in our fantastical games? You may call it criticism but I still feel like what you want is to make them change the way they make their games.Farseer Lolotea said:
There was an article on this site a while ago about a rising trend in Japan of female orientated games. Can't remember what it was called, there was always a strong female protagonst in these games who got to choose who to romance from a group of physically perfect men during the course of whatever adventure she was on. Id like to see games like that take off In the west. Let the girls have their games, the guys theirs and everything in between. So there's that to critiscize the games industry with. Not enough balance in the industry, but I still don't think it's fair to take one of these games and say they are wrong for their sex appeal. Or judge people who do like the appeal.
Anyway Miranda's purpose behind being sexy in mass effect is that she has actually been genetically engineered to be 'perfect' by her rich father in the womb iirc. Both physically and mentally, and she sort of hates that he did that to her.Also you can have romance the men in it anyway.
Still say that "Big Picture" said it best: it's the homogeneity that gets irritating. In a lot of games, you can tell a lot about the male characters by just looking at a still image. The female characters? "She's hawt, and she's striking a pose."Astoria said:
...this is why I want to go back to school, really.
That's why I changed the post.Fieldy409 said:
Even if that were the case: what's "unfair" about it? The market is more than one demographic.
Fair enough. So why cater to only one particular market, then?
It is criticism. Sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable, but that's really on you.
Ah-ah-ah! You're still falling into the "games are for boys" trap.
And your suggestion of dating sims is actually a bit insulting.
My bingo card is getting a workout here [http://girl-wonder.org/girlsreadcomics/?p=4#14]...
I know about Mass Effect. I wasn't talking about Mass Effect.
Have any of you seen what MovieBob had to say on the matter in one of his vids? I think he puts it better than anyone else. It's not so much the fact that sexy women are portrayed, but how they are portrayed. It mainly has to do with the body language of the characters in the media outside the initial games. The video's called "Gender Games", so look it up.