Poll: Was the response to Kobe Bryant's use of the word "******" appropriate?

[Dags90]

The people saying it is no big deal are right. No one under the age of 20 thinks it has anything to do with gay people anymore.

Kobe Bryant is 32...

$100,000 for hurting someones feelings is a bit much i think.

It's less about the refs individual feelings and more about professionalism and the fact that the NBA (and all the money makers behind it) want the sport to be as family friendly and inclusive (and thus, profitable) as possible. So really the fine is more about what bad press he's bringing to the sport now.

 

[Lazarus Long]

The NBA is a business, and Bryant is an employee. Given the obscene salaries involved, a hundred grand fine is about as serious as getting chewed out or written up by the boss in a mortal job for yelling at a coworker. So yeah, I'd say it's an appropriate response to him blurting out a stupid, childish insult, and making "the company" look bad.

 

[ultimateownage]

the Spurs

Wait, Tottenham Hotspur? What are they doing in NBA?

 

[John Funk]

Kobe should be fined and suspended. If we don't teach people that this sort of language is wrong, hurtful and degrading then they will keep using it. Especially if they see their "heroes" doing it.

Also, for anyone saying "free speech," that only applies to the government. The government cannot forbid anyone from saying hateful things (look at Westboro), but the NBA and television networks, who are private companies, can forbid anyone from saying anything they want.

 

[John Funk]

I don't see the word "******" as offensive to gay people. It's nowadays just a common insult, even with a slightly comical effect. Like for example if I want to take a break at work and my boss (with whom I have a good relationship) says I can't get it, then I sometimes reply to him, that he's a fag. I don't mean that he's a flaming homosexual or anything like that. It's just one of the shortest words that I can use to express my dissatisfaction.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, ****** is also a type of food: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_%28food%29

A common phrase is ******. White people can't use it, but rappers etc use it...ALL THE TIME when speaking to each other. All of this "equal rights" and "racism" benefits only one side. But I'd rather not derail any further.

Case in point. Unless you actually say "******" as a direct insult to a gay person, it should be fine. It's not like calling a good person "bastard" is any better. It's just a generic insult when sexual preferences are taken out of the equation.

You don't see it as offensive. They do. To them it is an incredibly hurtful term that carries with it the weight of living your life in a backwards society that denies you rights and privileges and may well threaten your physical well-being.

Using it and legitimizing it only makes it worse.

You are wrong.

 

[nitetrain8]

This is a stupid argument. The word ****** isn't used as a derogatory accusation of homosexuality- its used to imply stupidity. I say it all the time, "blah blah blah fuck those faggots blah blah" and so on, and yet the idea of discrimination based on sexuality is far far more offensive to me than nearly anything else in the world. Being called a ****** doesn't even phase me. Why? Its barely even an insult. Its just an expression of frustration that's become so ingrained in our culture that it really shouldn't offend grown people. There's a reason that south park made their biker-gangs-are-faggots episode.

On the other hand, insults are only "useful" in that people become offended by their use. He wouldn't have even said it if it didn't feel at least a little offensive, though these LGBT people getting upset over it really shouldn't be so insecure about the usage of common slang. In fact, there's good evidence for the decline of the word "******" in use as an insult in that it is being used much less at least here on the internet with the word "******". Look around to the forums and comment sections of websites infamous for insulting comments (hi 4chan) and compare the number of times that "******" is used as an explicitly insulting word verses the number of times "******" is.

At any rate, the LGBT community doesn't seem to have gotten it into their heads that their members will never be fully integrated into the community discrimination-free, for the simple fact that their self identity is directly tied to sexual behavior that most people would be repulsed by if they found themselves in that type of situation. Afterall, how would they like it if the BSDM community started walking into work wearing their bondage chains, or the National Watersports Committee formed and members started answering "what's your favorite drink" with "freshly expelled urine". I'm not implying that LGBT is a perversion, but that some people will be repulsed by their type of sexual behavior is an inevitable result of human nature. Also, I'm not saying that gay rights isn't an issue (please don't misinterpret this), but it is to say that in the context of a verbal insult, you really just have to accept it sometimes and move on.

 

[The Gnome King]

*indignant wall of text*

All that text and angst and you still didn't answer the main point.

Why be cruel? Why choose a word that hurts a segment of the population?

Why choose to be indignant and go on using a word like "retard" or "fag" when you don't have to?

Do you enjoy injecting cruelty into the world or would you rather be remembered for the kindness and tolerance you tried to foster? If you only hurt 0.05% of the population with your choice of insults; was it really worth it, in the end?

Me, personally, when I'm angry at somebody I tell them I'm angry with them and attempt to leave childish, hurtful insults out of it.

And yes, it is obvious you are very young. Like I said, perhaps if you grow up and have a homosexual child who is hurt by being called a "fagot" one too many times you will learn.

Otherwise, yes, stick to the gaming forums so you don't get your feelings hurt.

 

[shasqueebo]

I think that his "outburst" was incredibly rude and stupid, but I agree that it's just being made into a big deal because of his celebrity status. If my teacher tells me that I got a question wrong on a test and I responded to them in the same manner I'm fairly certain it won't be making headlines in the newspaper.

 

[The Gnome King]

* wall of text *

First link, in particular, is a fairly good one.

http://books.google.com/books?id=xJZf1x1KLfUC&pg=PA106&lpg=PA106&dq=source+word+fagot+burning+gays&source=bl&ots=1dEZf84FgJ&sig=tHxeGvY4mEUReAzJz-aDwlQOqz4&hl=en&ei=0iCoTbPrJ8Wgtgf99aneBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=******

Again - all this because you just have to use a word that causes other people pain?

Really?

Need any other sources cited?

You might want to actually read your sources.

The oft-heard statement that male homosexuals were called faggots in reference to their being burned at the stake is an etymological urban legend.

Go on, read the second link again (or I'm guessing for the first time ever).

And actually I think we should accept ****** as a general insult because the world would be a better place if we weren't trying to force a word to retain a meaning that offends so many people in such a specific way. The fact that people say it and it isn't related to homophobia is a good thing.

Sigh. I was providing two links, both of which had different sources for the word, for a reason. It obviously sailed over your head. Yes, I know what the second link said.

Then go re-read the first section of the first link.

There's a campaign Wanda Sykes has launched in the states to get people to stop using the word "gay" to refer to anything people don't like. ****** is, and likely always will be, a hateful word used to degrade homosexuals.

Etymology isn't an exact science and I was trying to be fair by providing various sources. The fact remains, it is seen as a hateful word and while one website sites "urban legend" for the "gays burned at the stake" theory you can find other sources which say or suggest the exact opposite.

You're fighting this hard to use a word many people find hurtful and insulting. I'd say that says something about your character.

And I suppose you're free to use the word, of course. I can't force you to be a better or kinder man, that's up to you. Just use it in the wrong place - or in the wrong way... or say it to the wrong person; and there may well be consequences.

Just as Kobe found out.

 

[The Gnome King]

*more indignant walls of text - maturity will teach you that less is sometimes more*

Look, I'm not interested in having an internet pissing contest with a 20 year old boy. You can go through the entire thread and re-read the same arguments if you wish. As I've told others, I can't make you a better or kinder man - only you can do that.

Some people gain it through age and maturity; some people never do. I'll wish you a long, happy life and I hope that you gain the wisdom necessary to see that using a word some people find hateful and hurtful is never a good idea.

If you want to use the word in private with your friends - fine. If I want to use the "N" word in private with my friends and none of them are insulted; fine - I mean, who the Hell is going to know what you privately say and do with your own group of peers? It's what you say in public that can get you in trouble.

As I stated to another in this thread when discussing the etymology of the word, the fact remains that it is seen as a hateful word by the homosexual community. I doubt you will see that change in your lifetime.

As I've already spent far more effort here than I care to, I'll leave you to have your inevitable last word. Feel free to quote me, reply, have your say, rage against the unfairness of me judging you by your youth - whatever you need to do. You're trying to come off as educated and worldly and frankly, it's not happening.

If you feel the need to use this word, I suggest using it cautiously - otherwise, you may find out, as Kobe did, that there can be professional and personal ramifications for doing so.

Again, feel free to have the last internet-word here as many boys in your age group feel necessary; this is my last reply to you on this subject. You'll either mature and learn better, or you won't.

Regards.

 

[Hyperthetical]

Simple Rules for Public Discourse: If he said "******", and meant by this that the referee was incompetent due to being homosexual, then he should be derided, run out of town or stoned, I'll leave this up to personal preference. However, if he simply meant, albeit in a coarse and ineloquent way, that the referee was an incompetent myopic moron, then the only person with a right to feel offended is said referee.

The lesson we learn is that meaning is more important than the words you use, complaining about calling someone a 'fag' does not equate with supporting gay rights, merely that you would like others to think you support minority rights. This kind of reaction is just a demonstration that society pretends to be O.K with homosexuality, however, society at large would probably be fine with talking trash about gay people if you used no words that could be construed as having a 'history' of homophobia.

TLDR: Racist, homophobic and sexist sentiments are vicious, unpleasant and hateful, words, however, are not hateful, it's how the words are said that makes them hateful.

 

[TheIronRuler]

Others made an interesting argument that had Kobe called the referee a "fucking retard", he would have received more flak for saying the word "fucking" than the word "retard", and he certainly would not have been fined $100,000. The word "retard" is such a part of common parlance that people rarely mean it as a direct insult to the actually mentally disabled. However, unlike homosexuals, the mentally disabled are not a powerful group politically.

This agument is exactly what I thought of.

 

[Windcaler]

In my opinion, people are way to sensitive about any slur that has a connection to homosexuals, especially the LGBT community. It never matters what context its used in, what the person was thinking at the time, or even if they meant one of the literal definitions. If you say ****** then you're labled as an evil person and likely a bigot too. Thats how our society as a whole tends to react right now.

Even since my high school days (1994-98) the word ****** was used as a negative slang term to describe someone. I dont think thats changed in recent years because I still see it being used by teenagers and people in their early 20s in the same way.

That said, If the 100,000 fine is the same for calling the guy a moron, an idiot, or something like that then Im fine with it because its an equal fine for the meaning behind what he said not the word he used. If the 100,000 fine is because he used the word ****** then its absolutely an overeaction and I think Kobe is in the right to challenge it.