Poll: What do you think about circumcision?

[ConstantErasing]

Making it illegal seems a bit harsh at this point but I don't think the parents should be allowed to do it. The kids should be allowed to decide their own religion and take on it at which point they can decide for themselves if they want to be circumcised (when they are older that is, I wouldn't let an impressionable little idiot kid make the choice for himself).

 

[Y_P]

The difference is there, studies show circumcised men more often report erectile problems.
http://news.menshealth.com/is-your-circumcision-making-you-soft/


And it's a no brainer, foreskin has tons of fine touch nerve endings, it's a part of erection mechanism. Of course when you're young and heathy it's not a problem but when older those problems start to show.
It's all in the brain, when it's harder to get that erection the lack of those nerve endings doesn't help I'd say, that means the brain doesn't get all the info about what is going on down there.

 

[R3dF41c0n]

*snip* lol

Alright then, To put this to rest, As someone who was uncircumcised and then circumcised, Have you noticed any difference in pleasure? ( If you don't mind me asking of course)

No, I don't mind at all. I had Phimosis (that's were the foreskin doesn't retract the way it should), so my sex experience pre-circumcised wasn't all that great. I didn't get a lot of stimulation because of the foreskin. Two weeks after the surgery I had sex and I felt A LOT more pleasure.

Granted, I'm not the best example because I had a medical condition and I couldn't really feel anything prior. I've had to change the way I masturbate but other than that it's been great.

Btw, if anyone is thinking about doing the surgery for cosmedic reasons my advice is don't do it! Those needles really hurt and you're soar and tender for at least two weeks.

 

[AngloDoom]

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to log in and post here for the first time in months to interject.

Now I was circumcised when i was a child due to medical reasons, and without going into graphic detail, I have had no problems making do with this 'lack of sensitivity', just ask my girlfriend.

So please don't just assume that because someone is circumcised, they are somehow disadvantaged or 'broken' when it comes to using it, as it's quite offensive. Besides, by that logic if you're involved with someone else, it's only going to benefit your partner, so win-win!

People aren't saying circumcised children have worse sex when they are older, we are saying you don't feel as much - and without the nerve-endings in the foreskin this would make sense, no? This is not to say a circumcised adult feels no pleasure from sex, but less.

In the end, if you have circumcision pushed on you before you can make a decision about it, without decent medical reason, something has been taken from you without your permission that you cannot get back. A man with an uncircumcised penis can always find ways to make himself last longer in bed, but still feel the same amount of pleasure. A man with a circumcised penis, some suggest, will never feel the same pleasure as someone with who didn't have a large amount of nerves cut from them.

In all honesty, I'd say that, yes, you are disadvantaged to most uncircumcised men when it comes to sex, since they can always take steps to last just as long as you in bed but will still feel more pleasure.

 

[ILikeEggs]

Circumcision Decreases Sexual Pleasure:

Spoiler

A questionnaire was used to study the sexuality of men circumcised as adults compared to uncircumcised men, and to compare their sex lives before and after circumcision. The study included 373 sexually active men, of whom 255 were circumcised and 118 were not. Of the 255 circumcised men, 138 had been sexually active before circumcision, and all were circumcised at >20 years of age. Masturbatory pleasure decreased after circumcision in 48% of the respondents, while 8% reported increased pleasure. Masturbatory difficulty increased after circumcision in 63% of the respondents but was easier in 37%. About 6% answered that their sex lives improved, while 20% reported a worse sex life after circumcision. There was a decrease in masturbatory pleasure and sexual enjoyment after circumcision, indicating that adult circumcision adversely affects sexual function in many men, possibly because of complications of the surgery and a loss of nerve endings.

Kim, D. and Pang, M., "The Effect of Male Circumcision on Sexuality," BJU International 99 (2007): 619-22.

Circumcision Removes the Most Sensitive Parts of the Penis:

Spoiler

A sensitivity study of the adult penis in circumcised and uncircumcised men shows that the uncircumcised penis is significantly more sensitive. The most sensitive location on the circumcised penis is the circumcision scar on the ventral surface. Five locations on the uncircumcised penis that are routinely removed at circumcision are significantly more sensitive than the most sensitive location on the circumcised penis.

In addition, the glans (head) of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The tip of the foreskin is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis, and it is significantly more sensitive than the most sensitive area of the circumcised penis. Circumcision removes the most sensitive parts of the penis.

This study presents the first extensive testing of fine touch pressure thresholds of the adult penis. The monofiliment testing instruments are calibrated and have been used to test female genital sensitivity.
Sorrells, M. et al., ?Fine-Touch Pressure Thresholds in the Adult Penis,? BJU International 99 (2007): 864-869.

Here's an image related to the different regions of the human penis and their sensitivity:

Spoiler

Now, in actual response; You people, YEESH. How can you pontificate so vociferously without actually reading anything? I don't justify it, I don't necessarily endorse it, as I have made very clear. I'm just pointing out the fallacy of logic in making it a human rights issue.

Human rights issue or not, what do you propose be done about it? Because the way I see it, a parent inflicting near-irreversible(Restoration doesn't grow the nerves back, ever) damage to their children for the sake of conformity or easy hygiene is absolutely moronic. None of the above are even valid excuses, and the first person to think otherwise should be forced to watch 50 hours of slideshows involving uncircumcised penises.
I'm not advocating laws against people making choices for their children, I'm advocating stronger education regarding the need(well, lack of need) for circumcision.

(The next paragraph is directed at no one in particular)
Instead of lopping off your son's foreskin for fear of him being *horror* an outcast, you could teach him that there's nothing wrong with being different, and that conforming isn't necessarily a good thing. You know, a simple life lesson(or being a good parent) as opposed to a completely unnecessary medical procedure.

Circumcision is, for the most part, unnecessary and stupid. I'm not going to go around knocking people out and throwing them in rivers because they want to circumcise their sons, but you can be sure as hell I'm going to treat them the same way I treat other ignorant twits I run into.

If you did it on account of medical issues that could not be resolved otherwise, I couldn't care less. If you're for circumcision on account of conformity, aesthetics, 'hygiene' and other such fluff, you're a terrible parent.

So please don't just assume that because someone is circumcised, they are somehow disadvantaged or 'broken' when it comes to using it, as it's quite offensive. Besides, by that logic if you're involved with someone else, it's only going to benefit your partner, so win-win!

No one's saying you're disadvantaged or anything of the sort. But you can't really argue with the logic that fewer nerves will mean less sensitivity. Finally, lasting longer doesn't really mean much because it has practically nothing to do with the clitoris, unless you're the kind of person that has never heard of orally(which is probably far more fun for her) or manually stimulating a woman.

By the way, "They found that the circumcised men in the study took on average 6.7 minutes to ejaculate, compared with 6.0 minutes for the uncircumcised men. This difference was not statistically significant."

Have you seen an uncircumcised penis? It's awkward to look at and kinda gross. I have literally asked all five of the women nearby me just now what they thought, and they all told me they prefer circumcised. They tell its easier to work with, and by golly I agree.

If you(and the women around you) are so hung up(unintentional pun, I guarantee you) on the way an uncircumcised penis looks, far more women(and probably men) elsewhere in the world would cringe at the sight of a wrinkly, dry, flaccid, circumcised penis.
If your partner takes offense(only a crazy person would) to its aesthetics, you can *GASP* simply retract the foreskin on an intact penis for happy fun time

Either way, watch the video below.

Circumcision? Why hasn't this caught on yet?
Who wouldn't want to cut off a part of their dick? I can't wait to try this to myself!
The kids at the mall would see me and be like "dude, you cut off your own dick? Wow!", and I'd be like "Nah man, just the tip", and they'd be like "That's the most bad-ass thing I've heard all day, rock on.", and then I'd punch a security guard off a Segway and everyone would cheer because I'm so wicked awesome.

I love you.

 

[dave1004]

My parents refused to circumcise me, stating that it was my decision to make. And hell, I like that. I don't want to have the skin on my lil' john torn off...Just the thought of how much AGONY it would be to have Lil' john's head rubbing against clothing? Ugh! It stays much more sensitive when it's protected from...Abrasive elements.

:/. It's the child's choice when they grow up.

 

[Jamieson 90]

In my view it should only ever be an individual's choice, made when the individual is an adult. It just seems wrong to me that it is okay for a parent to force a decision on a child in this manner. Something that is going to change their body which they wont be able to reverse later in life.

The fact that the child might regret it or resent it later in life is not worth the supposed benefits, which are marginal at best. Leave it up to the individual to decide when they are old enough, I doubt anyone over the age of 18 is going to volunteer though.

 

[dogenzakaminion]

I think it's not right that parents get to do it to their children without any consent, but there's no harm in getting circumcised, nor are there any benefits, so it doesn't really matter to me. I'm not and I'm fine with that. I honestly find the fascination with the topic kind of weird. Most people are not circumcised.

 

[Jake0fTrades]

There's actually a very good documentary about this.

Spoiler: All you need to know.

Honestly, what difference does it make whether or not you're circumcised?

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Id like a choice in what happens to my dong even if it can potentially preduce syphalis rates. I dont even sleep around! Maybe i deserve a choice in who cuts/does not cut my penis? Maybe? Doesnt that shound a bit like a right to you?

Oh please. I suppose you wanted to weigh in on whether the doctor closed up your belly button as an inny or an outie, or what you ate, or whether you held Daddy's hand or ran across the street on your own.

Kids don't get a right to choose, about anything, until they're old enough to stop eating sand, and for good reason. Yeah, there are and should be laws on the books to keep kids from being abused and mutilated, but never forget that your parents/other caregivers made literally MILLIONS of decisions for you, by force, the net result of which is you living long enough to sit at your computer and work the keys. So give them a little credit for knowing what's best for you, and for trying to take the best care of you they could. Again, if they hadn't, you wouldn't be here.

If the biggest thing you have to complain about during those early years is that you're missing an unneeded flap of skin that nobody ever sees, well... talk to your folks. I bet they've got enough horror stories about that time to drown out that little concern of yours. Easily.

Sorry but you cant compare daddy walking me down the street to having my penis forcefully cut in a PERMENANT MANOR THAT WILL FOREVER STAY WITH ME FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE. Last time i checked actually i never used my belly button for anything. My penis is a a key organ of my body, a very personal one and i for one want to choose how it looks.

You think this is ok?

Because in inca times THIS was called attractive. The same way MANY people on this thread go "UNCUT LOOKS GROSS" incas thought anything that wasnt THIS was gross. Does that make this OK? Is it ok to mutilate a child if culture says it looks pretty? NO. This is barbaric! This is a shitty society we live in if this is our attitude.

You have two camps of people for it:

The camp that says it makes no difference: You want to perform aesthetic surgery on a child for no reason? Why not tattoo their penis matt black, thats fine too isnt it?

The camp that says it makes a positive difference: When did you read about people "forcefully changing others for the better, for their own good" and they WERENT a cackling movie bad guy? Seriously? Just because YOU prefer it, doesnt make it right to force it on a small child? Children should be FORCED to be safe, not be FORCED to accept your preferences.

 

[AngloDoom]

There's actually a very good documentary about this.

Spoiler: All you need to know.

Honestly, what difference does it make whether or not you're circumcised?

It's genital mutilation which which causes a number of disadvantages being forced on infants at birth.

A lot of people care very much.

 

[Oskamunda]

I love you.

Didn't actually have anything to quote from your post, just wanted you to get the message I responded to your own quote.

I had mentioned in the first post I made the increase in sensation for most uncircumcised males (or at least their females). All I can say to that in response is that I am cut, and my penis is extremely sensitive...and my orgasms are quite mindblowing; so I can't really say that something heightened from that would be better. I usually feel like I have departed the mortal plane, and I don't need any extra sensation...in fact, I don't really feel any sensation on the shaft at all...just around the head and on what is technically scar tissue.

Just goes to show...different strokes(heh) for different folks.

What's to be done about it? Nothing; that's the point. You want to talk about "rights," no one has the "right" to say you don't have the "right" to circumcise your child...rather, they have the right to say it, but not to enforce it or make you feel like a pariah for having a different opinion. Parents need to be educated on the choice and not feel pressure from the doctor when the time has come (we did not tell our doctor that we wanted our son circumcised, although we had already made the decision; still, he simply asked, "Schedule the circumcision for Wednesday?" as though it were the only choice...the nurse also pressured my wife into an unnecessary anesthetic she didn't want during the labor process, so professional pressure IS a factor...the doctor has no right to enforce circumcision as the priority, just as no one has the right to enforce non-circumcision). So, maybe volunteers go to the postpartum wards with pamphlets including the information that has been gathered in this whole thread? Oh, wait, that would involve people getting off their asses and doing something...much more likely they'll just sit here and *****.

Plus, until we get an adult male who had an adult circumcision to tell us what the difference actually was before and after, how are we to know what the real difference is? You don't know what it's like to be cut and I don't know what it's like to be uncut.

Still, the conclusion is valid from the point of logic: it's not a human rights issue. What is much more of a human rights issue is the way that people have been treating other people over this disagreement.

Poste Scriptum: Sewora, I loved how, when your logic was called into question point by point with actual named formal and informal fallacies, you stopped dogging on me and started quoting other people to shit all over. Nice.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Before i even begin, can i say im soon to be training as a medical proffessional, and i shall refuse to do any circumsisions ever unless STRICTLY for a legitimate medical purpose.

Le Sigh.

Before I even begin...against your will? REALLY?

Many people on this thread wish they havnt been circumsized. Against their will. If a choice was made for me that potentially forever changes the way i am theres a 50/50 chance ill hate it, is that really fair?

In the eyes of the law - no consent = unconsenting. Its how it works for sex, id like to think thats how it works for cosmetic surgery.

you meant the pain aspect; logically, all babies want to avoid pain, so it follows that any procedure that causes pain would be against their will (if you are going the route an infant actually has the intellectual capability to argue against any kind of "rights" he may or may not have, then...lolwhut). I guess that logically includes being ripped from that warm and comfy womb where all the sustenance you need is pumped into you by a fleshtube and traveling down the birth canal and having your head compressed as you erupt into a world of cold, bright lights, and unfiltered noises to begin that process called LIFE, right? Oh, that's right...that's not logical...

No ones arguing about pain. However simply because a child doesnt remember pain doesnt make UNNECCESSARY PAIN ok. Like a pointless operation? If it makes no difference like you said, why not just leave it for the child to decide? After all it makes no difference. I call it akin to tattooing your childs penis matt black all over. No functional difference apparently, just a pointless painfull procedure that could stay with them forever for no other reason than YOUR wishes over them.

I made that thinking one's religious views or cultural views (or even personal moral views, now that we get down to it) give them the right to dictate terms to another human being is bunk.

Are you KIDDING ME?! Is this a JOKE?! Read this again. Read it another time. So MY Cultural view CANT tell you not to cut a child... but YOUR religious view can dictate to a person that their penis shall be cut in a way you want without any input from them? At all? Can you not see the hypocracy there?! Im not sure you realise what you wrote.

You are dictating terms to a baby that will one day be a person about the status of its genetalia. Im dictating a term saying "Please dont cut peoples genetalia". Which one is worse.... hmmmmm. "le sigh"

At the end of the day ALL you are arguing is:

My right to cut my childs dong how i want > My childs right to choose how his dong looks

Its his fucking dong. Why dont you leave it alone? Since when does ANYONES opinion about the way your freaking GENITALS LOOK mean ANYTHING but yours?

Where the hell do you even get off. There is NO legitimate reason for you to want to cut someones dick because wait for it.... its not yours unless purely medical. Its like me randomly wanting to cut some randomers dick in the street.

If the "damage" done can be reversed with a bit of diligence, and nothing else, then what is the problem after all? If you were uncut as a child, and decide you want to be cut, then getting circumcised as an adult can cost $500~$2000 (depending on the doctor and the area and the type of anesthetic) and can be a very painful process over a long period of time as the penis heals...whereas most infants won't be using the penis for urination or sex regularly, and the hyper state of growth in an infant body makes the healing process take less time. Growing your foreskin back as an adult is pain free and costs nothing...are you just lazy?

Did some research. Lets see.

"some aspects of the debate regarding restoration suffer from a lack of evidence, or are based on anecdotal evidence, and comments that "the placebo effect ... cannot be discounted." He also states that restoration procedures are "certainly feasible, but they are not without considerable risks, not least of which is loss of sensation of the penile shaft."

Also found this.

"The poll also asked about awareness of or involvement in foreskin restoration, and included an open comment section. Many respondents and their wives "reported that restoration resolved the unnatural dryness of the circumcised penis, which caused abrasion, pain or bleeding during intercourse, and that restoration offered unique pleasures, which enhanced sexual intimacy."

So you want to potentially subject your child to this? And when he complains you will yell, "DONT BE SO GODDAM LAZY FIX A PROBLEM THATS MY FAULT THAT I DID FOR NO REASON WITH LOTS OF HARD WORK OR CORRECTIVE SURGERY" You know whats easier? Not doing it at all and letting them decide then any negative side effects are not your fault.

The birthing process itself is very traumatic and painful to an infant, perhaps we should forego all that malarkey and just give every mother a C-section for the baby's sake, regardless of cost or the mother's wishes; after all, the stomach is so customizable let's put some ritual scarification on it! Hell, we've already started with the whole belly button thing by cutting that freaky umbilical cord, why not keep going!

I love the way you try and compare birth and a C section, both neccessary and usefull mecical procedures, with something that is, in essence, an unneccessary cosmetic surgery. I love it. So that breast enlargements the same as that guys cancer treatment? No. Thats a stupid comparison. You must see the comparison between A MEDICALLY NECCESSARY procedure and what you describe as a "procedure that makes no difference" is fallacy right? That it makes no sense? If it makes no difference it is by definition pointless and as such to perform pointless surgery on an infant is dangerous and stupid. Give my kid an apendectamy doctor! Because no apendix is cool!

I know that a lot of people really don't like logic, but that's what it boils down to. Logically, it really doesn't fucking matter. If you feel it is right to do it to your baby, then do it. If not, then don't. Here's what not to do:

Im asking my doctor to tattoo my babies penis matt black and chop off the end of its little toes. There we go fair and just! Logic is accepting a persons rights are greater than what you deem that person should be. You say im victimising your rights for victimising a babies rights to not have a chopped penis. You cant victimise a homophobe for being a homophobe. And i cant victimise you for pointlessly cutting a childs dick.

I love logic. I love the logic that any major choice in my life or about my appearance should be mine from the earliest age possible and not made for me.

Don't get on a high horse and convince yourself (and try to convince those around you) that your evaluation of the morals at play illustrate the only correct choice is the one you espouse, ESPECIALLY when you are trying to trump one person's "rights" to favor another person's "rights."

So its not ok to convince someone my preference is right, but its ok to mark someone with your preference against their will in a physical display? Uhuh.... im not trying to trump your rights. Your RIGHT to cut a child is a load of fucking bullshit. I deny you that right. You dont deserve it. Move to a country that allows genital mutilation if you want to mutilate genitals. Deal with it. Its wrong to cut a baby for no reasonable medical reason in ANY other situation, i deny you any exception because "hey i wanted it".

Just to be clear, that is not an accusation against you personally, Mr. Trouser of Biscuits, it is a general statement of advice for everyone. You may notice that it seems I am doing the very thing I argue against, but take this into account: the view I am espousing is a view of logic, not morality, which we all know can vary from one culture to the next.

I know this is getting TLDR, but one last thing I find really interesting...

Most of the anti-circumcision agents are liberals, and they use the exact same kind of human-rights arguments that the conservatives use when they take the Pro-Life stance...doesn't logically add up.

Sorry it does. A real baby and an egg and a sperm are different things. An acorn isnt a tree. We are not discussing the same topic, the arguements are the same but they apply to a completely different situation. You really need to work on comparison.

Cosmetic surgery for someone else with no input from them = medical proceadure.

Saying a living breathing human shouldnt be cut = Killing a zygote thats barely 100 cells.

Ok the above statement is bias, but from a biological point of view a zygote is a different entity to a baby. It just is. One doesnt have a nervous system. We are talking about two very different topics that cant really be compared.

Please read the above for my response.

Actually dont respond unless you have another point to make.

From what youve posted your opinion really is

"Its bad people are victimising us for cutting children"

And

"Our right to cut them is greater than anyones right to stop us from doing something to someone who has no capability to protest or decide"

It IS our right to protect children from pointless, potentially harmfull surgeries just because of your personal preference. A baby is not an object! You cannot just customise it as you want when so many side effects are possible. it isnt medically ethical and i will personally shun doctors who think it is. A disgrace for everything medicine stands for. TO preserve. To treat. To help people. Not to cut a baby because a father decides its a fun sounding idea. Thats freaking sick in the head. This barbaric process needs to be stamped out, and if i have any future say in the medical community ill be sure to try.

You also keep talking about "enforcing peoples rights on me to not cut my baby" rather than "im enforcing my personal preference onto a small child". The hypocracy is astounding. You obviously care about your designer baby more than the welfare of the child.

You might feel im some sort of neo nazi for denying you your precious god given right to aesthetically customise your baby but i dont really care. Thats fine. I feel youre some sort of hidious monster for wanting to cut a child for no real reason.

Its fine to disagree with me, lets just get out here. Admit to me your view is:

"My right to choose preference > my childs right to choose preference"

And then we can agree to disagree.

If that is your view then im sorry. I dont want to talk to you anymore.

Plus, until we get an adult male who had an adult circumcision to tell us what the difference actually was before and after, how are we to know what the real difference is?

Oh, that'd be me. And the best description of the "real difference" may be inferred from my opinion that circumcisers should be slain like rabid dogs.

Id do anything. Anything. To stop my kid from feeling this way. No matter how slight the chance. 0.0000001% because any chance is 100% unneccessary. Put aside my petty desire for my kids penis to be slashed? Yes. Yes i would.

 

[Stromtrooper]

Okay, how about this though. I'm circumcised, and I don't want to be. It's considered absolutely horrendous to circumcise a female, so why should it be any different to circumcise a male?

Yes, I understand physically, the two operations are very different. But my point is this: you are mutilating a child. Your child very well may not agree with your reasoning for that mutilation when it grows up. So don't cut your kid.

Alright, I got to stop you there. A female circumcision usually is performed to prevent the female from wanting to have sex. In other cases they are to make it impossible for a female to have sex. A male circumcision, while wholly unnecessary, has no negative consequences and is based on either religious practices or tradition from WWI where in the soldiers got circumcisions to prevent their dicks from rotting off when they were waist deep in mud for most days. To compare the two is incredible arrogant and insensitive. You are a dick.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Okay, how about this though. I'm circumcised, and I don't want to be. It's considered absolutely horrendous to circumcise a female, so why should it be any different to circumcise a male?

Yes, I understand physically, the two operations are very different. But my point is this: you are mutilating a child. Your child very well may not agree with your reasoning for that mutilation when it grows up. So don't cut your kid.

Alright, I got to stop you there. A female circumcision usually is performed to prevent the female from wanting to have sex. In other cases they are to make it impossible for a female to have sex. A male circumcision, while wholly unnecessary, has no negative consequences and is based on either religious practices or tradition from WWI where in the soldiers got circumcisions to prevent their dicks from rotting off when they were waist deep in mud for most days. To compare the two is incredible arrogant and insensitive. You are a dick.

While i agree the two are not comparable my i offer this medical study?

"Many respondents and their wives "reported that restoration resolved the unnatural dryness of the circumcised penis, which caused abrasion, pain or bleeding during intercourse"

Just saying. Found that on a wiki source, followed it, medical servey for corrective surgery on circumsicion. Want a link?

A pointless surgery on a child is wrong. When is it ok to perform needless surgery on anyone?! Waste of time, money, resources, and potentially damaging. Nice combination for a small baby.

I agree circumsision as a medical treatment for a legitimate medical purpose? Aboslutely fine. Go ahead. But dont fix what isnt broke. We dont rip out every babies apendix because it isnt worth the trauma and potential damage. This isnt worth it either, even if chances are very small, they are unneccessary chances.

 

[Rodrigo Girao]

Plus, until we get an adult male who had an adult circumcision to tell us what the difference actually was before and after, how are we to know what the real difference is?

Oh, that'd be me. And the best description of the "real difference" may be inferred from my opinion that circumcisers should be slain like rabid dogs.

 

[Naeras]

I've held a baby for their circumcision. They cry just about as much as if they have a dirty diaper.

And I'm not a hypocrite if you read what I've repeatedly said in this thread. If there is a cultural/religious imparative and there is no conclusive scientific evidence of harm or benefit then its the parent's call and preserving tradition is probably a good thing.

If there is no real reason to do it and the procedure had uncertain science, then better to be safe and don't do it. (And no, your statement on sexual pleasure is not confirmed by the science at the moment)

If there is conclusive evidence of harm that outways any good, don't do it.

That set of steps applies equally to any form of medical procedure on a child (and for that matter, I'd apply that same standard to myself.)

Wait. What?
Seriously? You didn't get the important part of that post? The part of parents having control over the bodies of their children being completely disgusting and one of the biggest cases of child objectification I can think of? Because the reason I accused you of hypocrisy was because I assumed it was pretty easy to see how forcing cosmetical surgery on a kid is pretty horrible, and that one that causes unnecessary pain is even worse.

Holy shit.
You've either got some fucked up views on how to treat kids, or you've successfully trolled me.


And even despite that, and ignoring the fact that I've never read anything claiming that circumcision has no effect on your sex life, it's pretty much proven that there are no real positive effects coming from circumcision. In the best case doing it hurts like hell for the person you do it on, which should be reason enough to not do it without a good medical reason. I can see people being completely indifferent to the topic, but I can't see how anyone can defend cutting little kids' penises without them being able to have any say in the matter. You make it sound like it's okay because "it's just a kid and they cry anyways". Kids can feel pain too, bro.