i was on another thread and a user posted a very negative comment about circumcision. I'm not gonna link to it, but he said parents shouldn't be allowed to circumcise their children and ones who do should be punished.
i'm circumcised and i can't imagine being uncircumcised, so i don't think it should be illegal. but what do you think?
It started as a religious practice by the Hebrew people, which is fine. But somewhere along the line other people started doing it too, maybe because they thought thats how you grow those sweet looking curly sideburns...im not sure.
But I do know that the vast majority of people act all weird about an uncirumcised penis, when in fact thats how its suppose to naturally be. its all fucked up.
Just to make sure i get this: essentially your argument is "God made man in his image, so let's turn around & cut the foreskin off because God said so?"
How does that make sense? (not inflammatory, i really don't understand how that makes any sense at all)
Dude, I'm an atheist. I just feel there's tradition, religion, and that can be over what your kids may feel. And while that may read odd, shit like that hurts really bad when you're a teenager or adult. I figure, if it is your religion just do it, I don't care.
Fellow atheist here. I don't think I'd be ok with my parents performing needless surgeries on me for religious reasons before I was aware enough to choose my religion.
Just to make sure i get this: essentially your argument is "God made man in his image, so let's turn around & cut the foreskin off because God said so?"
How does that make sense? (not inflammatory, i really don't understand how that makes any sense at all)
Dude, I'm an atheist. I just feel there's tradition, religion, and that can be over what your kids may feel. And while that may read odd, shit like that hurts really bad when you're a teenager or adult. I figure, if it is your religion just do it, I don't care.
Fellow atheist here. I don't think I'd be ok with my parents performing needless surgeries on me for religious reasons before I was aware enough to choose my religion.
see, the thing is, i'm glad my parents had me circumcised. Uncircumcised penises look horrible and too much like an animals penis. I know we're animals, but that doesn't mean we need to look like them just because it's natural.
I'm glad they had it done early mainly because it's riskier and a lot more painful later in life not to mention you don't remember it when it's done at birth.
also, to Wushu..."circumcision is bullshit, Penn and Teller say so." seriously? ....seriously? You lost all credibility with that line with me. Not because it's Penn and Teller ,I watch them all the time, but; because you apparently have to have someones "say so" to validate your beliefs.
Shouldn't it be someones personal choice whether they want part of their dick chopped off? Fuck you parents, just because I'm your child doesn't mean you get to mutilate my penis.
If it's for medical reasons, then it should be done. But like someone else here said if it's religious then it won't hurt to wait a few years and let the child decide for themselves.
I think that it should be up to the individual when they're old enough to choose (say 16 or 18). I remember watching a clip of a debate online where one of the supporters of circumcision, when asked about the idea of leaving it up to the person at age 18, said "That's silly how many 18 year olds are going to volunteer to have their foreskin removed?" Which I found hilarious because that's exactly the point.
I'm uncircumcised and don't wish to be so. There are no real benefits to do so; just risks.
There is a proven sensory benefit, the foreskin has a lot of nerves that I wish I had. The risks involved with being uncircumcised are actually quite low. Infectious diseases can be eliminated with, and this is a bit shocking, soap! I think people who use this argument don't realize that the only thing necessary to prevent germs is proper hygiene. If your worried about uncleanliness, just remember when your showering to fold the skin back like your using fisstech and do a little scrubbing.
Edit:
Sholtz said:
see, the thing is, i'm glad my parents had me circumcised. Uncircumcised penises look horrible and too much like an animals penis. I know we're animals, but that doesn't mean we need to look like them just because it's natural.
I'm glad they had it done early mainly because it's riskier and a lot more painful later in life not to mention you don't remember it when it's done at birth.
Saying that an uncircumcised penis looks bad is irrelevant to the argument. I am circumcised, but I happen to love the look of uncircumcised penises (yes, that means other men's penises). Just because some people find something aesthetically pleasing doesn't mean you can force it permanently upon someone without their consent. As far as I'm concerned, it's just like tattooing a baby.
As for it being riskier and more painful when your older, that seems incorrect. I would guess that it is less risky, because older men are more resistant to infection and have bigger penises to hack away at (big target = less chance of mistake). If you have facts to the contrary please share, as that was a educated guess. As for the issue of pain, it's no more painful when you're older, you just remember it better. Plus, I would hazard many men would choose not to get circumcised, and then there would be zero pain.
I voted the parent's choice, but what I really mean, is religious reasons. I really think you shouldn't circumcise, barring medical reasons, unless it's a religious reason. I just don't see a point to cutting off part of the dick for any non-religious reasons. Seems kinda weird.
"(10 points says poll gets eaten)" You, my friend, are out 10 points. I think I will use the points to buy a vineyard, out in the countryside.
This is not a personal attack, and any use of the word 'you' (with the exception of the very first instance where, in fact, I am addressing the author of the post) should be read in the personal sense to the reader.
I was sure this was going to turn religious -- I didn't expect it to be the very first post! Huzzah, escapist!
So, here's why you're wrong, and read carefully: Religion is not ever, in any circumstance, a fucking excuse to do anything you wouldn't do otherwise. I will never, and nobody should ever, accept the proposition that religious morality is a loophole around actual morality.
I don't believe in female genital mutilation -- and I don't believe that just because your religion says so, you should be allowed to mutilate female genitals.
I don't believe in ritual animal sacrifice -- and I don't believe that just because your religion says so, you should be compelled to kill an animal for no tangible reason.
I don't believe in ritual self-flagellation -- and I don't believe that just because your religion says so, you should flagellate yourself for any reason other than self-gratification.
I don't believe in flying passenger jets into skyscrapers -- and I don't believe that just because your religion says so, you should fly a passenger jet into a skyscraper.
I don't believe in slicing a baby's dick -- and I don't believe that just because your religion says so, you should slice your baby's dick.
So, I've qualified all of these with "I believe." Do you disagree? Should we allow all of those instances I just listed?
If you do believe that, then I suppose at least you're consistent.
You're also a monster.
Why not be consistent in the other direction, instead? Why not determine what is and isn't moral, irrespective of the tens of thousands of constantly-splintering religions say? Why not determine morality based on a reasonable consideration of where one person's rights should end, and another person's begin?
Fun fact about traditional Talmudic circumcision: The moil uses his fingernails to slice the baby's dick, and then he uses his mouth to suck the blood from the baby's sliced dick. As far as I'm concerned, removing the fingernails and infant-cock-bloodsucking is really irrelevant; you're still left with someone slicing a baby's dick.
As far as I'm concerned, my right to swing my fist ends at your nose, and anyone's right to slice things with their fingernails ends at a baby's dick.
OBTW, I'm cut. I was cut twice, and am still, believe it or not, still mostly intact -- I guess that makes me some kind of bizarre penile anomaly. Yes, I still believe that it makes my parents monstrous. No, I'm not bitter about it, but only because I recovered. If I were more religious and less ethical, I'd use myself as a message from God, that he doesn't want people to slice children's dicks anymore.
I think that it should be up to the individual when they're old enough to choose (say 16 or 18). I remember watching a clip of a debate online where one of the supporters of circumcision, when asked about the idea of leaving it up to the person at age 18, said "That's silly how many 18 year olds are going to volunteer to have their foreskin removed?" Which I found hilarious because that's exactly the point.
I'm uncircumcised and don't wish to be so. There are no real benefits to do so; just risks.
There is a proven sensory benefit, the foreskin has a lot of nerves that I wish I had. The risks involved with being uncircumcised are actually quite low. Infectious diseases can be eliminated with, and this is a bit shocking, soap! I think people who use this argument don't realize that the only thing necessary to prevent germs is proper hygiene. If your worried about uncleanliness, just remember when your showering to fold the skin back like your using fisstech and do a little scrubbing.
He meant that there are risks involved with circumcision. He agreed that there is no good reason to slice a... ehh, fingers are tired of all that text manipulation. Anyway, yeah, he was specifically saying that there are no benefits and plenty of risks involved in circumcision.
If you're going to get one, I advise you to NOT wait till you're an adult. I had to get one at 16. The following two weeks were the worst of my life. I had phimosis, so, unless I wanted to rip my foreskin during sex, it had to go. They only got rid of the foreskin, though. What's this "cutting off the tip of the dick" stuff you guys are talking about? Mine's fine.
Parents cutting into the flesh of their children for no reason at all, or male genital mutilation, is a barbaric practice and should be stopped. It has medical applications for example in the case of a too tight foreskin, and performing circumcision in those situations is reasonable. Cosmetic surgery without consent on small children though? Nuh-uh.
see, the thing is, i'm glad my parents had me circumcised. Uncircumcised penises look horrible and too much like an animals penis. I know we're animals, but that doesn't mean we need to look like them just because it's natural.
I'm glad they had it done early mainly because it's riskier and a lot more painful later in life not to mention you don't remember it when it's done at birth.
also, to Wushu..."circumcision is bullshit, Penn and Teller say so." seriously? ....seriously? You lost all credibility with that line with me. Not because it's Penn and Teller ,I watch them all the time, but; because you apparently have to have someones "say so" to validate your beliefs.
You think it looks hideous because the norm in America is the cut schlong. You literally have zero context-awareness. If you lived in a place where people didn't slice babies' dicks as a matter of course, you'd look at a cut one and say, "oh god, what is wrong with that dick? It's hideous! It's got a huge chunk missing from it!"
Tell you what -- I think that fingernails are awful-looking. I really think they make us look too much like animals, and frankly I think we should just tear all the finger- and toenails off of children when they're born. I don't want to look like an animal, just because it's natural.
As for his quirk about Penn and Teller, he's specifically alluding to an episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit, where they debunked the myths surrounding the alleged benefits of circumcision (most of which are hygenic and just as easily accomplished by washing your dick (or are you morally objected to touching yourself?). He wasn't letting Penn and Teller dictate his beliefs; he was making a cute allusion to a well-done expose on a fairly important issue.
see, the thing is, i'm glad my parents had me circumcised. Uncircumcised penises look horrible and too much like an animals penis. I know we're animals, but that doesn't mean we need to look like them just because it's natural.
I'm glad they had it done early mainly because it's riskier and a lot more painful later in life not to mention you don't remember it when it's done at birth.
also, to Wushu..."circumcision is bullshit, Penn and Teller say so." seriously? ....seriously? You lost all credibility with that line with me. Not because it's Penn and Teller ,I watch them all the time, but; because you apparently have to have someones "say so" to validate your beliefs.
Well Sholtz(tough to figure out which religion you belong to LAWL), it only looks like a animal dong to you because you(I assume you live in the US) are used to seeing circumcised dicks. Most elsewhere outside of the jewish and muslim world, you would be the weirdo for CUTTING YOUR DICK. Oh, and almost all mammals have foreskins. I can't imagine why.
If you believe that God made you in his image, he made you with a foreskin. Why would God want part of your dick to be chopped off?
I can maybe understand the way primitive desert people thought about the body when they decided to cut up their kids dicks but in civilized modern societies the practice is outdated and barbaric. And the reason they are done isn't because of aesthetics or supposed medical advantages(most debunked ages go), but because of RELIGIOUS reasons(read:irrational). Medieval Europeans observed that mostly jews and turks practiced circumcision(which was considered barbaric by medieval standards) and even today, only 30% or so of males around the world are circumcised, 70% of those being muslims.
If we are doing pros and cons for circumcision the cons list is very long while the pro(supposed) is quite short. Luckily since medical associations in most countries don't favor circumcision and most people already don't get circumcised, this practice will fall out of favor more and more or at least be left up to the kid when he grows up.
I get why some of you are defensive(you are cut) but we aren't attacking you(it's not like you had a say in the matter), just the stupid practice. I myself am cut but due to phimosis and medical conditions are the only legitimate requisite to be cut in the first place.
It's somewhat funny that a developed country like the US(world power even) still considers this barbaric practices as normal. You are in the same league as backwards countries from Africa and the Middle East and don't even know it. Before the 19th century and the puritanical surge to prevent masturbation, no one in the western world even considered getting rid of their "animal dongs".
Okay, how about this though. I'm circumcised, and I don't want to be. It's considered absolutely horrendous to circumcise a female, so why should it be any different to circumcise a male?
Yes, I understand physically, the two operations are very different. But my point is this: you are mutilating a child. Your child very well may not agree with your reasoning for that mutilation when it grows up. So don't cut your kid.
The fact that ONE person. One. Is circumsized and wished he wasnt. Is enough proof to in my opinion legally ban it until the person is 18. Its just llegal mutilation. Heres a good example of what i want to say.
Celestialum said:
Exactly. The doctors would freak out if after a child's birth, the parents wanted to cut off part of the baby's earlobe, or the tip of its nose. So why is a penis any more tolerable? Just because members of a widely-accepted religion do it is -not- a sufficient response.
I decide when my baby is born im going to challenge the doctor to lop off its little toes. I wont want him to, but i want to see if i can get him to agree for religious reasons then stop him and call him out on his idiocy.
If its so amazing, why couldnt you get it done at 18, i mean your penis is going to see the most use after this age anyway, now you can decide and theres no risk of accidental baby mutilation.
124 people think its ok to randomly mutilate a child because they happen to like the results afterwards, even though there was an equal chance they would not. I weep for humanity. I hope you all tattoo/ remove random parts from your baby
There is no legitimate arguement for baby mutilation unless done for an absolutely neccessary medical purpose. I weep. I actually weep. What a fucking disgusting world we live in where society deems baby mutilation OK BECAUSE OF RELIGION. Are we dancing round a fucking tribal fetish now? DOES HE DEMAND SACRIFICE?! WHAT ARE WE FUCKING TWO?! Do we REALLY think because a voice told us to, or jimmy said it was OK that its FINE to jam this fork into the plug socket?! Do we not see the RESULTS of our actions? CAnt we wait 18 years to get circumsized if it means so much to you to avoid people hating being violated and mutiliated when they have NO choice over the matter?!
I think that it should be up to the individual when they're old enough to choose (say 16 or 18). I remember watching a clip of a debate online where one of the supporters of circumcision, when asked about the idea of leaving it up to the person at age 18, said "That's silly how many 18 year olds are going to volunteer to have their foreskin removed?" Which I found hilarious because that's exactly the point.
I'm uncircumcised and don't wish to be so. There are no real benefits to do so; just risks.
There is a proven sensory benefit, the foreskin has a lot of nerves that I wish I had. The risks involved with being uncircumcised are actually quite low. Infectious diseases can be eliminated with, and this is a bit shocking, soap! I think people who use this argument don't realize that the only thing necessary to prevent germs is proper hygiene. If your worried about uncleanliness, just remember when your showering to fold the skin back like your using fisstech and do a little scrubbing.
He meant that there are risks involved with circumcision. He agreed that there is no good reason to slice a... ehh, fingers are tired of all that text manipulation. Anyway, yeah, he was specifically saying that there are no benefits and plenty of risks involved in circumcision.
I'm a bit confused by where he said he was uncircumcised and did not wish to be so, and implied that being uncircumcised has risks, while circumcision has none.
I'm circumcised, don't know why I don't talk to my parents that often, too tight of a foreskin if I remember correctly. They're not in any way religious or anything so that's probably not it. All that aside, I've never not enjoyed sex so what's the problem?
To consider oneself pure and wholesome enough to dictate terms of inherent justice accorded to all beings irregardless of age, gender, religion, nationality, subculture, sexual orientation, income, caste distinction, or political inclination; especially if this purity and wholesomeness stems from a spiritual or cultural font that is not uniform throughout the world.
Example: Preamble to the Declaration of Independence, adopted July 4, 1776: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Those trumped up human rights didn't include black people until the passage of the 14th amendment, adopted on July 9, 1868; it did not include women until the adoption of the 19th amendment on August 18, 1920 (although, it can be fair to say one doesn't need the right to vote to be happy, RIGHT?).
Example: Certain people of spiritual inclination disallow contraceptives of any kind aside from Family Planning [http://www.christianfamilyplanning.org/]. They believe that life begins at conception (for the sake of argument, and to prevent igniting a frenzy, the court accepts this point), and that newborns, fetuses, and pre-fetus zygotes need be given the same rights as a fully-formed human being. South Africa has one of the highest rape rates in the world. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#South_Africa] Judging by these "certain people's" trumped up human rights standards, a South African female would be disallowed the use of an anti-rape device [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-rape_device], even though it has nothing to do with child-bearing, and more to do with prevention of rape, thus substituting the perceived rights of one individual over another.
Example: The U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act] (yes, in case you didn't know, it acutally IS a fucking acronym)...never mind, you aren't reading anymore, anyway.
Let this guy make you laugh about it instead. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ7XFvniWWE]
~Poste Scriptum
I hope that explains "Trumped Up Human Rights Claims."
I mean after all its only a trumped up human right not to be cut against your will as a small infant. The medical purposes aside, the ear lobe can get infected and in fact the ear itself can get many nasty infections due to the depth of the canal. If we lopped the whole ear off we could reduce infection... seems legit Lets just cut the exterior ear off except for a little bit to allow hearing to remain the same. Or the ends of the little toes? How about a tattoo! My baby is so CUSTOMISABLE I can just cut it however i want because its an object and i can decide how its penis can be because I OWN IT. This seems legit. Also im sorry but i doubt its possible or easy to regrow a tonne of skin thats just been cut off and that isnt attatched at both ends. What we have there is a truncation. Its been removed and only the skin that it was attatched too was healed over.
Because your tribal fetish says its ok isnt a legitimate reason. No culture/religious morals should be loop holes through real morals. Cutting a baby IS BAD FOR ANY REASON other than purely medical and only if its 100% neccessary. Id like a choice in what happens to my dong even if it can potentially preduce syphalis rates. I dont even sleep around! Maybe i deserve a choice in who cuts/does not cut my penis? Maybe? Doesnt that shound a bit like a right to you?
see, the thing is, i'm glad my parents had me circumcised. Uncircumcised penises look horrible and too much like an animals penis. I know we're animals, but that doesn't mean we need to look like them just because it's natural.
I'm glad they had it done early mainly because it's riskier and a lot more painful later in life not to mention you don't remember it when it's done at birth.
also, to Wushu..."circumcision is bullshit, Penn and Teller say so." seriously? ....seriously? You lost all credibility with that line with me. Not because it's Penn and Teller ,I watch them all the time, but; because you apparently have to have someones "say so" to validate your beliefs.
You think it looks hideous because the norm in America is the cut schlong. You literally have zero context-awareness. If you lived in a place where people didn't slice babies' dicks as a matter of course, you'd look at a cut one and say, "oh god, what is wrong with that dick? It's hideous! It's got a huge chunk missing from it!"
Tell you what -- I think that fingernails are awful-looking. I really think they make us look too much like animals, and frankly I think we should just tear all the finger- and toenails off of children when they're born. I don't want to look like an animal, just because it's natural.
As for his quirk about Penn and Teller, he's specifically alluding to an episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit, where they debunked the myths surrounding the alleged benefits of circumcision (most of which are hygenic and just as easily accomplished by washing your dick (or are you morally objected to touching yourself?). He wasn't letting Penn and Teller dictate his beliefs; he was making a cute allusion to a well-done expose on a fairly important issue.
Your reason for cussing at me is? So quick to judgement, someones got a low self image or something. Look you want your nails torn out, that's awesome. I love the idea really just yesterday i was thinking to myself. You know it's weird that we have these reduced claws basically we should either have eagle talons or just lose them entirely. If they weren't there the tender skin underneath wouldn't be tender anymore it would be like any other skin. So they don't really protect anything...no shittin' ya.
One thing i notice is you're so quick to tell me i have zero context for my dislike of the way uncircumcised penises look. Actually, that would well be the case if people walked around nude all day where I was made use to circumcised penis, but ya see we don't walk around naked here. My dislike of uncircumcised penis is due to ONLY to the fact it resembles an animal penis. Like a dogs in it's sheath.
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