Le Sigh.BiscuitTrouser said:I mean after all its only a trumped up human right not to be cut against your will as a small infant. The medical purposes aside, the ear lobe can get infected and in fact the ear itself can get many nasty infections due to the depth of the canal. If we lopped the whole ear off we could reduce infection... seems legitOskamunda said:Lets just cut the exterior ear off except for a little bit to allow hearing to remain the same. Or the ends of the little toes? How about a tattoo! My baby is so CUSTOMISABLE
Because your tribal fetish says its ok isnt a legitimate reason. No culture/religious morals should be loop holes through real morals. Cutting a baby IS BAD FOR ANY REASON other than purely medical and only if its 100% neccessary. Id like a choice in what happens to my dong even if it can potentially preduce syphalis rates. I dont even sleep around! Maybe i deserve a choice in who cuts/does not cut my penis? Maybe? Doesnt that shound a bit like a right to you?
Before I even begin...against your will? REALLY? As an infant you knew of the process of circumcision, read up on it and studied, came to the conclusion it wasn't for you, and protested as such when they prepped the scalpel? Amazing. My son couldn't even lift his head to see what they were doing when he was circumcised. Oh, wait, I understand...you meant the pain aspect; logically, all babies want to avoid pain, so it follows that any procedure that causes pain would be against their will (if you are going the route an infant actually has the intellectual capability to argue against any kind of "rights" he may or may not have, then...lolwhut). I guess that logically includes being ripped from that warm and comfy womb where all the sustenance you need is pumped into you by a fleshtube and traveling down the birth canal and having your head compressed as you erupt into a world of cold, bright lights, and unfiltered noises to begin that process called LIFE, right? Oh, that's right...that's not logical...
If you actually read the first post I made, you might notice my own personal conclusion at the end was "Meh." I don't really care about circumcision, I was only pointing out that making it a human rights issue is nonsense.
I also pointed out that many of the reasons it is done are cultural and religious, and pointed out in the second post I made that thinking one's religious views or cultural views (or even personal moral views, now that we get down to it) give them the right to dictate terms to another human being is bunk. I also pointed out in that first post evidence on both sides of the fence, medical and sexual, to really get the point across that it doesn't matter. I also linked out to several sites that illustrate how to grow your foreskin back, several of them with homemade assistance apparatus that have no cost attached to them...did you miss that?
If the "damage" done can be reversed with a bit of diligence, and nothing else, then what is the problem after all? If you were uncut as a child, and decide you want to be cut, then getting circumcised as an adult can cost $500~$2000 (depending on the doctor and the area and the type of anesthetic) and can be a very painful process over a long period of time as the penis heals...whereas most infants won't be using the penis for urination or sex regularly, and the hyper state of growth in an infant body makes the healing process take less time. Growing your foreskin back as an adult is pain free and costs nothing...are you just lazy?
No. Wait. Stop. I don't want to hear, "but what about cutting a baby, doesn't it hurt when you are an infant, too?" Most babies are circumcised by the fourth day, C-sections on the second or third day. At that time, most babies haven't adjusted to the cold or the light yet, and everything is painful, even bowel movements using those fresh new intestines...and they use local anesthetic on the infant for circumcisions, anyway! The birthing process itself is very traumatic and painful to an infant, perhaps we should forego all that malarkey and just give every mother a C-section for the baby's sake, regardless of cost or the mother's wishes; after all, the stomach is so customizable let's put some ritual scarification on it! Hell, we've already started with the whole belly button thing by cutting that freaky umbilical cord, why not keep going!
I know that a lot of people really don't like logic, but that's what it boils down to. Logically, it really doesn't fucking matter. If you feel it is right to do it to your baby, then do it. If not, then don't. Here's what not to do:
Don't get on a high horse and convince yourself (and try to convince those around you) that your evaluation of the morals at play illustrate the only correct choice is the one you espouse, ESPECIALLY when you are trying to trump one person's "rights" to favor another person's "rights."
Just to be clear, that is not an accusation against you personally, Mr. Trouser of Biscuits, it is a general statement of advice for everyone. You may notice that it seems I am doing the very thing I argue against, but take this into account: the view I am espousing is a view of logic, not morality, which we all know can vary from one culture to the next.
I know this is getting TLDR, but one last thing I find really interesting...
Most of the anti-circumcision agents are liberals, and they use the exact same kind of human-rights arguments that the conservatives use when they take the Pro-Life stance...doesn't logically add up.
