Poll: What does the Escapist community think of vaccinations?

[Chromatic Aberration]

And so, like always, any dissenting opinion is beat down once again on this forum. Always the same liberal shit. And you know what? I voted "no" because there are good reasons for not getting vaccinated that are once again ignored in the echo-chamber that are the Escapist forums. I've written a lengthy rebuke of the myth that vaccinations aren't harmful below and presented how large healthcare conglomerates use the fear of diseases for their gain - the government notwithstanding. But I guess like always most people will just go on to ignore the facts even if they fly in their goodamn face.

So, what do you think now, huh? Still so sure about how "harmless" vaccinations are?

 

[Eamar]

So, what do you think now, huh? Still so sure about how "harmless" vaccinations are?

Well, that's me convinced.

[small]Well played, sir. Well played.[/small]

 

[teebeeohh]

while we are at it, why not discuss gravity? does it actually exist or do we just fall down becase in our heart we love mother earth so much?

Gravity doesn't exist. Everyone knows this. We are being held close to Mother Earth's bosom because she loves us so. Scientific fact. Look it up.

what kind of a monster are you, believing in facts? everybody knows that only what you BELIEVE in(because it is comfortable for your current way of life and allows you dismiss everything to the contrary) is true?
facts are for dirty non-believers who are just not loved enough to BELIEVE random things people tell them and totally dismiss others.

 

[Lightknight]

Aww, you could have gotten actual legitimate responses if you had attempted to use non-inflammatory language in the poll setup.

"I like degrading societal disease immunity..." is too big a caveat for anti-vaccine people to use it. Rendering the point of the poll and thread moot. It's like posting a poll asking if "your momma knows ur gay" and leaving Yes or No as a poll answer.

That being said, I'd be pretty surprised if anti-vaccine people frequent these boards. So this doubly doesn't matter.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

Of course the poll's going to worded so the opposing option is "I'm dumb because I disagree".

Not much point in furthering this discussion anyway, since this thread is full of people who support vaccines and are probably going to devolve into bashing anti-vaccine views. Not that I support anti-vaccination, it's just that there's no point in joining in what I view as a circlejerk.

 

[Muspelheim]

Pole is TEH BIAS!

Joke aisde, vacccinations are a very good idea. However, they should be developed and used with caution, and accepted with caution. For instance, new and dodgy vaccines that ride the coattails of a fashionable new sort of flu might be a reason to at least think it though, if you are not a part of the endangered sections.

Generally, though, it's a good idea to get yourself vaccinated against easily preventable diseases. It's a peace of mind, if nothing else.

 

[Eamar]

Of course the poll's going to worded so the opposing option is "I'm dumb because I disagree".

Not much point in furthering this discussion anyway, since this thread is full of people who support vaccines and are probably going to devolve into bashing anti-vaccine views. Not that I support anti-vaccination, it's just that there's no point in joining in what I view as a circlejerk.

While I agree that the poll really didn't need to be worded quite so smugly, is there really much reasonable discussion that can be had on this topic? Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but not all opinions are created equal.

Spoiler: I think Dara O'Briain said it best:

 

[omega 616]

To me this sounds like an argument that should have happened when vaccines were first thought of.

Can you just imagine the news head lines and announcements on the wireless. Doctors inject you with the virus and your body defends it'self. People Start getting all panicky 'cos they don't understand it and think the end is neigh due to the epidemic of infected people!

Except the fear isn't that TB is about to kill half the population, they might (at the longest of shots, the mother of all hail Mary's) get a mental disorder.

Are these the same kind of people who never leave the house 'cos they are scared something MIGHT kill them, a car, lightening, a crazy, a meteor, a large bird dies mid flight and impales their skull ...

 

[Lilani]

I don't understand how it puts less healthy people in any danger, I assume they were smart enough to get vaccinations, which means they should be immunized to any diseases the idiots didn't vaccinate for. Don't get me wrong, I still find people that don't vaccinate their children more than a little foolish, I just don't understand how it puts anyone who is smart enough to have it done in any danger.

Not everybody is able to get vaccinations due to certain medical conditions, these would be the "less healthy" people the poll is talking about. However, it is a very small percentage of people, so as long as everybody else who can get vaccinated does then the "herd immunity" can still hold together.

 

[Something Amyss]

Of course the poll's going to worded so the opposing option is "I'm dumb because I disagree".

Not much point in furthering this discussion anyway, since this thread is full of people who support vaccines and are probably going to devolve into bashing anti-vaccine views. Not that I support anti-vaccination, it's just that there's no point in joining in what I view as a circlejerk.

While I agree that the poll really didn't need to be worded quite so smugly, is there really much reasonable discussion that can be had on this topic? Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but not all opinions are created equal.

Spoiler: I think Dara O'Briain said it best:

I think the problem is just the poll. Because it would sort of be interesting to see how the Escapist responds, but when the options are "yes, I am reasonable and intelligent" and "no, I'm a dumb dumb dummy" it sort of cuts off the interest in answering honestly. I doubt there's much in the way of discussion to be had, but I kind of wonder how this would have turned out if the poll hadn't been tainted. And I don't think a new poll would have the same effect.

 

[renegade7]

My question:

Let's say that vaccines actually did carry some infinitesimal risk of causing autism. The rate of ASD affliction is something like 1 in 70: that includes autistic disorder (the classical "autism") and the conditions formerly known as Asperger's, high-functioning autism, Rett Syndrome, and PDD-NOS. So let's say that's your risk of vaccines causing some form of autism, about 1.4 percent.

Which, conveniently, is very close to the mortality rate of pertussis in infants and young children, about 1.6 percent. However, it varies among the vaccine-prevented disease: polio has a mortality of 2-5% in children but often causes permanent, crippling disability. Smallpox (which is no longer vaccinated since vaccines resulted in its eradication) had a mortality of 35% and caused permanent disfigurement in 65-85% of cases and also caused permanent health problems: arthritis and blindness chiefly among them.

The majority of autism cases are HFA, Asperger's, and PDD-NOS. While problematic, they are quite manageable. So even if the vaccines do give your child an ASD, it's most likely to not be a huge deal.

So let me ask you this: is autism really so terrible that you would rather your child risk death or being permanently crippled than accept a lower risk of having a (probably mild) ASD (even if that risk did actually exist)?

You know, I don't want to be all social justice warrior here, but as someone who actually has Asperger's I can tell you I certainly prefer it to being in a wheelchair...or, you know, dead. Death from preventable disease, or infinitesimal chance of probably mild autism, and the miniscule chance their child will develop autism is so repulsive to these people that they'd rather their child risk death.

Assholes.

 

[Dr. Pepper Unlimited]

How is there even a debate? I swear if there's even a single person that votes the second option...

As of now, I see nine. I truly hope they all voted "No" just to be jerks. I can't imagine anyone actually believing that vaccines are bad.

Appropriately for this thread, here in the US there was a new study that showed that cases of the measles hit record highs this year. Higher than the last 20 years in fact. The fact that diseases I only see when playing "Oregon Trail" start becoming mainstream news is just...mind blowing. There are some stupid people out there.

 

[Happiness Assassin]

Whenever it has ever come up, this is what I usually say:

The big scare surrounding vaccines is that it causes autism... so what? Even if this were true (which it isn't), would you rather your kid receive a developmental disorder that is in most cases quite manageable or would you rather risk your kids getting a disease that have very high risk of complications? Autism can be hard, but guess what is even harder to deal with... your kid dying.

 

[Erttheking]

Even if they did cause autism, WHICH THEY FUCKING DON'T, a simple question. Which would you rather want? An autistic child, or a dead child? The fact that so many people pick the latter is disturbing.

 

[TheWiseScarecrow]

Um wow never knew this was thing. Never even heard about vaccines and autism. The worse they cause in my part of the world is an allergic reaction. Flue shots and such are optional here(and none ever bothers) but you get vaccinated for the major ones within days after birth. It's standard care.
I'm kinda curious now though - you don't have to get them at all if you don't want to in America?

 

[Frezzato]

snip

Related article: U.S. measles outbreak sets record for post-elimination era [http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/05/29/u-s-measles-outbreak-sets-record-for-post-elimination-era/]

The timing is interesting considering that it was posted yesterday.

 

[raeior]

Basically what everyone else already said. A neighbour of mine had Polio in her youth and that still limits her movement to this day so yeah I'd rather take a needle to the arm than that.
Also I'm quite happy Influenza vaccination exists because being part of a "risk group" I really don't need to get that infection with complications of any kind.