Poll: What is the Big Deal With Bloody Shakespeare?!?!

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TheGreatCoolEnergy

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1st of all, I liked the Merchant of Venice. Romeo and Julliet was garbage.

But why is he popular? Well when you live in a time where the two choices your monarch can make are:
1-see a play
2-kill people

you get pretty damn excited about a guy who can write enough plays that nobody has to die.
 

Lavi

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Sep 20, 2008
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A friend and I are convinced that Shakespeare is actually three people. That's why the quality of his work varies so much.

Hamlet is brilliant. It is the one true timeless classic. Everything else Shakespeare wrote is SHIT.

Oedipus is fucking better than the shit that asshole wrote!

TWELFTH NIGHT SUCKS. IT WAS NEVER FUNNY.
ROMEO AND JULIET IS NOT A LOVE STORY! IT IS THE TALE OF TWO IDIOTS.
 

onewheeled

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Aug 4, 2009
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I kind of dig Shakespeare.

We had to read Romeo and Juliet for English this past year, and I found it dreadfully boring. Sure, it's a good story and all, but it was just... eh.

Though I did see a modern rendition of Hamlet at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival this year, using the original script, which was absolutely amazing. Though some parts were slow, it was for the most part very exciting, rather funny at times, and just an all-around great show.
 

Crystal Cuckoo

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I'll take you seriously when you learn how to spell "Shakespeare" properly.

Until then, I bid you good day sir!
 

Buzz Killington_v1legacy

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Dr. Awesome Face said:
As for the language, English is virtually a completely different language now to what it was back then, I doubt that there is many at all who still learn how to understand that version of English.
This just isn't correct. As people have already said elsewhere in the thread, if you want a really different version of English, you have to go back to at least Middle English (around the 14th century) or better yet, Old English (the 11th century or so).

Shakespeare's English, apart from the odd spelling or grammatical quirk, is perfectly comprehensible to any modern reader willing to make a slight effort to work through the unfamiliar words (e.g., fardels or osier).
 

interspark

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Dr. Awesome Face said:
I don't exaclty know when this term is used, but I am pretty sure the ending suffers from Deus Ex Machina.
no, you dont do you? a deux ex machina is a sudden, unexpected piece of good luck
 

SL33TBL1ND

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interspark said:
Dr. Awesome Face said:
I don't exaclty know when this term is used, but I am pretty sure the ending suffers from Deus Ex Machina.
no, you dont do you? a deux ex machina is a sudden, unexpected piece of good luck
Translated it means God from the Machine. So less unexpected good luck and more divine intervention.
 

Dr. Awesome Face

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interspark said:
Dr. Awesome Face said:
I don't exaclty know when this term is used, but I am pretty sure the ending suffers from Deus Ex Machina.
no, you dont do you? a deux ex machina is a sudden, unexpected piece of good luck
Uhhhh. do you know the ending of the Merchant of Venice?

right before Antonio can be killed by Shylock it is suddenly reveled that there was a loophole in the contract and that only a pound, no more no less, of flesh can be taken. Since it was impossible for him to do this, he was forced to surrender.
that sounds like a sudden, unexpected piece of good luck to me.
 

irequirefood

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It disliked studying Shakespeare's works during high school and college, more than any other subject I did. But his contribution to the English language is too great to call crap, and ironically the best I have ever done in an English class was when I took the Shakespeare course simply because I had no other options. My writing skills greatly improved over that time. Since also recently reaching the age of 18 I can say that I was just acting childish. Back then I too only had the justification of "His work is crap".
 

deadguynotyetburied

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Don't worry about spelling Shakespeare wrong. We've identified some seventeen copies we're fairly sure are his actual handwriting, and he spelled his name differently in almost every one. Regularized spellings didn't become a big deal until much later, and even then the idea of "regularized" spellings seems to have been somewhat haphazardly applied. Why does "through" rhyme with "you", "bough" rhyme with "cow", and "though" rhyme with "hoe"? Shouldn't they all rhyme with one another, and the other spellings represent different sounds? For that matter, why doesn't "bow" rhyme with "bow?"

However, one thing I did want to point out. Shakespeare actually wrote in early modern English. You wouldn't be able to read Old English or Middle English at all.

Shakespeare was a very talented writer, and had a gift for borrowing from the right source material at the right time, but one of his biggest accomplishments was being one of the first popular writers. He knew what people of his day wanted to see, and he gave it to them.

The language itself, in my humble, is what puts you off. You only read one of his works, and you work so hard just to figure out what he's saying, there is no comedy because everything loses its flow. In that sense, I agree that serving up one Shakespearean work to every high school English class does more harm than good. If you had the option of taking or not taking a semester of his works, though, by the second or third of his plays you would be getting through the dialogue much more easily, and I think you'd have a lot more fun with it. You might even laugh at some of his little jokes. At worst, put it in a semester on the history of English literature, so anybody who signed up for it would obviously be interested in that sort of thing and would likewise be as interested in the progression in both the narrative form and the language itself, while people who just want to get their diploma and be on their way wouldn't be troubled.
 

deadguynotyetburied

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For a fine example of Deus Ex Machina, see "Threepenny Opera" where MacHeath is on the gallows and has already been fitted for his noose when the stay comes from the Queen, who on the day of her coronation not only orders him freed but confers a title upon him as well. Brecht, of course, was making fun of the device, but in earlier generations, and even in some modern B films, it allowed for some wildly improbable happy endings.
 

agrajagthetesty

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Jan 29, 2010
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Layz92 said:
agrajagthetesty said:
Layz92 said:
The greeks and romans did more for writing that he ever did.
Seems a bit unfair to compare one man's works with the combined influence of two vast ancient cultures. Just saying.

And yes, I love Shakespeare. His stories are not especially original or strictly realistic, but then they were never meant to be. His ripping off of other works and frequent incorporation of the supernatural were quite common at the time. The big deal is his use of language. The way the words flow, the inventiveness, the shapes they create and the passion they convey are wonderful. Admittedly, some plays are better than others, and I haven't read them all. My current favourite is Othello.
I said "the greeks and romans" because I can't remember specific names. But the tales of Theseus and many other mythological tales are so much more interesting and imaginative than Shakespeare.
You not being able to remember the names of the very people you claim to have had such an enormous impact kind of damages your argument. And a story being interesting doesn't necessarily mean it will have more of an impact over history than a less interesting one.

That said, I would agree that a lot of old myths like that of Theseus are more imaginative than Shakespeare's plots. However, I'm fairly certain that myths like that weren't the product of a single writer, but rather were told and re-told, being constantly reinterpreted and contributed to. In this way they're more the product of a culture than an individual.

But then again, as I said before, Shakespeare was part of a similar process, and his biggest contribution was not plot but the words in and of themselves.
 

AcacianLeaves

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interspark said:
AcacianLeaves said:
This is by far the worst thread I've ever seen on The Escapist. Read a book you failure(s).
i do read books, but only GOOD ones! :p
Twilight and Eragon don't count :p

Although both of those series are heavily influenced by Shakespeare, so...
 

AcacianLeaves

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Dr. Awesome Face said:
AcacianLeaves said:
Dr. Awesome Face said:
I remember back in year 10 I think it was the drama teacher came into our english class and started going on about the nundertones of shakespeare's work, how emotions and feelings are universal and so on. I don't remember it that well because I didn't give a toss about Shakespeare, and that remains the same today. That same year we had to read the Merchant of Venice. The ending has always pissed me off it just feels like such a cop out. I don't exaclty know when this term is used, but I am pretty sure the ending suffers from Deus Ex Machina.

So no, I am not a fan of dear William's work. He can BURN IN HELL!!!!!
So you had one class when you were 15 and studied one play by some horrible, underpaid, jaded high school teacher in a class that you had no choice but to attend and based on that experience you've decided that all of Shakespeare's works are unworthy of attention?

Go watch Kurosawa's Throne of Blood. That shit is awesome and shows how timeless Shakespeare's works are.

Also 10 Things I Hate About You, She's The Man, Titus (Titus if fucking awesome), or shit go watch The Lion King again.

I understand that as a teenager Shakespeare is a boring topic, but that's mostly due to how its taught. If you spent the entire class explaining all the dick jokes, examining the extreme violence, or even just viewing the plays as they were meant to be seen (hint: they were never meant to be read and the language was supposed to be easy enough for even the simpletons of the time to understand), kids today may have a different opinion.
I don't think that all of his works are unworthy of attention. Hell I've also read Macbeth and Hamlet (which I have also seen a performance of). And they were all right, so was Merchant of Venice for the most part. I just don't have the motivation to go find more and read them as well. I was exaggerating the Shakespeare can burn in hell thing because it was one of the options and as I mentioned I seriously hated the ending of Merchant of Venice.

As for the language, English is virtually a completely different language now to what it was back then, I doubt that there is many at all who still learn how to understand that version of English.

At the end of the day I just don't really have the motivation to go out and see more or read more, because like a lot of things I don't really care.
That's perfectly understandable. My own situation in life lead to a great appreciation for Shakespeare, mostly due to the excellent teachers I've had. I had the fortune of taking a class in Shakespearian Tragedy in college that was taught by a brilliant professor who knew his stuff and was able to discern a lot of interesting theories about all of the hidden messages and themes in Shakespeare. Also my Mom is an English professor, so there's that.

For instance, did you know that Romeo and Juliet is actually a comedy? I know people see it as the most tragic love story of all time, but is that really true? How would it have ended happily? Can you imagine Romeo and Juliet in their 40s with a couple of kids living in exile after having fled their families? I mean, that's the happy ending that everyone expects - but its stupid. The only reason their love is immortalized as great is because they die before time tempers their passions. Growing old together is the worst thing that could happen to these two morons, their entire relationship is only based on the fact that they're young and horny. We all know how well THAT works out. Dying young is the happiest ending to their relationship, hence Romeo and Juliet is a comedy.

Yeah I know no one really cares but I always found that interpretation interesting.
 

Blackdoom

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Sep 11, 2008
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Shakespeare isn't that bad in my opinion, the one thing I always thought when we studied it was did he intend every single line to be a metaphor? Or did people just make it all up later?
 
Sep 17, 2009
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dathwampeer said:
2 words, iambic pentameter.
Yes this! Not only was Shakespeare way ahead of his time concerning his observations on human relations, he did it all in iambic pentameter.

For example: In Hamlet the fool character Polonius states "to thine own self be true", which has been transformed into a powerful statement on believing in yourself and yada yada. But did you know that this is not a positive quote, but a statement shakespeare was trying to make on the ridiculous nature of one actually believe you can be honest to yourself? Shakespeare made the fool say this quote so obviously it does not have the positive connotations that many people believe it does. Basically Shakespeare was painting Polonius as a redundant character because not only is it pointless to tell someone to be true to themselves it is near impossible to live without regressions. Shakespeare was an existentialist before existentialism was even invented.

The reason most people end up hating Shakespeare is because they either had a bad teacher or are just generally closed off to the idea of trying to understand elizabethan english.

OT: I think Shakespeare is brilliant, but not the greatest writing ever.