Poll: What is your opinion of "Retake Mass Effect 3" and/or "Hold the Line"
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While I did dislike the idea of the ending, I've grown tired of hearing about it. And I think the people who used the charity as a front should get a reality check.
trollpwner said:TBH, a gulag has the same effect, but is slower.Zen Toombs said:Wow, they've got a gulag now? They're moving up in the world.tacotrainwreck said:Wow, my condolences to you for wherever it is you live, man. Even North Korea just sends you to the Gulag.
I'm getting pretty fatigued with all the talk about the ending as well, in part because people now kindof need to wait for the DLC to come out.trollpwner said:
Also, while I can't speak for everyone I know that I would only take umbrage with people wanting a developer to change the ending of a game if that person has legitimate reasons for doing so. For example, when the developers have multiple statements saying "we won't pull a 'Lost' style ending that raises more questions than answers. Most of your questions will be answered", people have a right to be upset and want that changed when the exact opposite happens.[footnote]there are more examples, but I'm running short on time. suffice to say that there are many other acceptable reasons fans could ask for the ending to be changed, many of which are contained within the Mass Effect 3 ending[/footnote]
You're setting up a strawman here - almost everyone who in this movement knows that Bioware can mostly do as they wish with their products. However, to act as Bioware has is to act in bad faith. When someone acts in bad faith, it is not problematic to call them out on it and have them fix the problems they caused by acting in bad faith. If anything, it is more problematic to not call them out on it.
It has always been an overrated cover shooter with some extremely gimmicky and unnecessary RPG mechanics with ripped-off lore and rigid, artificial choice branches. Also, as a side effect of the terrible Renegade-Paragon label system you end up with a main character who has absolutely no personality, is in no way likeable and you can't even play him the way you want because of badly implemented "charisma".SpaceBat said:
At least ME1 had an interesting twist with the reapers though. LITERALLY the only good thing about this series.
Oh and also Grain Filter & Lens Flare: the movie: the game
Companies are often given human emotions, like going out of their way to give extended cut is equated to human kindness. This behavior of treating companies like this gives them leverage in the market that they shouldn't have. It gives them the idea that instead of producing the product that people want, they can lazily produce a product and then attribute their behavior to the same type of logic people use in arguments, leading people to immediately assume that the less "professional" of the arguers is at fault. In short, everyone who thinks that Bioware/EA should be treated like a person on a side of a debate are being psychologically taken advantage of by a corporation. The protesters aren't fighting any single person in the corporation, they are fighting the backroom executives that TELL those people what to do.
game gets a shit ending and people can't accept that... back in my day if we got a shitty ending we moved the hell on.
I can think of a few reasons to be angry at the Extended Cut:Fappy said:
1. The extended cut can be leveraged against RE:ME3. Even if the Extended Cut does nothing to alleviate customer concerns about the end, or even if it made the endings worse, Bioware could then say, "Hey, we changed for you and you're still complaining, you really are entitled yadda yadda." Or even if BW itself doesn't say that, others will. For that reason, a false panacea should be rejected, and thus RE:ME3 is hostile to the Extended Cut.
2. The Extended Cut precludes any possibility of new endings. Keep in mind, many RE:ME3 people think the endings are 100% unworkable, and want them changed. The Extended Cut is essentially Bioware doubling down on the existing endings and refusing to change them. Thus, RE:ME3 is hostile to the Extended Cut.
Personally... I'm going to wait until the Extended Cut comes out before I pass judgement on it, but I'm at least going to give it a chance, which you cannot do if you're really committed to trying to a new ending for ME3. There is some stuff that will be better once it's clarified (i.e., what happened to all the people on the Citadel? How'd my squadmates get on the Normandy? What happened to the Universe without the relays?), but a lot of the things that made the endings suck for me cannot be clarified. So I expect to be less angry after the Extended Cut comes out, and more jaded instead.
How many hours across all three games have you committed to the series?Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Keep in mind that a lot of the hardline Retake people are the folks with a dozen separate play-throughs and hundreds of hours committed. People who, in anticipation for ME3, created separate save files with as many permutations of the storyline as they could just to see how they'd play out.
Not that it makes your opinion less valid, or something. I just think that you should consider how committed some people feel when you tell them to just, "move on." If you make no effort at all to empathize with the people you pass judgement on, how valid are your judgements?
Eh. I don't really feel like any sort of highfalutin notions of what fans ought and ought not to do are that important, really.Mcoffey said:
You don't think I have that right, alright, whatever.
I think I have the right to voice my dissatisfaction, gather in a group with people to voice my dissatisfaction, and attempt to alleviate my dissatisfaction through group action.
Haha! We are dealing with it! We're just proactively dealing with it, instead of "dealing with it" by being all sulky and quiet.imnotparanoid said:
Last time I checked problems were more effectively dealt with through positive action, rather than ignoring them.
There isn't some sort of objective measure of what is and is not "good" that all people need to conform to. Borrowing a play from the EA/Bioware Public Relations people, Mass Effect 3 got 75 perfect reviews--Clearly some of us have some basis for thinking it is good.SCHABIQ said:
Ehhhh. I agree with your first sentiment, disagree that the group as a whole are simply asking for happy endings. Because... they're not. Some people are, but they certainly don't speak for the entire group.crimsonshrouds said:
The DLC doesn't change the ending. I'm inclined to not given much more consideration to the rest of your opinions given how under informed you seem to be about the issue.BrionJames said:
That said, what if you could change the Star Wars Prequels, or Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull, etc? I wouldn't mind it one bit personally! All of your examples are awful. The difference here is that a video game is continuously updated via DLC---while movies are not---so it has a method of delivering an alternative ending. There's some precedent for something happening like this on a smaller scale (Broken Steel isn't quite the same, but maybe the first step). Triple-A video game titles rely on good DLC sales to generate additional revenue -- movies don't -- and that gives a convenient line of protest for a supply/demand type action. Finally, Bioware and EA make quite a bit of money off of "super fans" like the Retake people who not only buy the game and all the DLC, but also the stupid figurines and lunch boxes and stuff. If they lose these fans, which are the core of people in Retake, then they lose a huge market share. This isn't true with Lucas, who continues to attract the unwashed masses who like the prequel crap and 8th graders who just want to see Yoda jump around.
Awful publisher being challenged over awful ending (awful series, imo, but whatever) by great fans. Look at all this rationale they left lying here.
I put it in quotes because asking for a competent ending means you want a better ending then the one you were given ie a "happy ending" even if it isn't literally happy at all. Everyone wants the best ending for a series they like so when they are done they feel satisfied with the story.Uszi said:
Okay! That is some... interesting logic. I would contend that most people interpret "happy ending" to involve some sort of white-picket fence situation, with Liara bearing little blue babies for you. Or... maybe a "happy ending" is something at a massage parlor...crimsonshrouds said:
If we consider simply the common notion of what a happy ending to Mass Effect 3 would be, then I disagree that most people want a happy ending. I am utterly fine if Shepard dies. My two qualms are as follows:
1. Many elements make no sense. This is the main reason people are so convinced by the Indoctrination theory nonsense---the endings feel almost dream like, disjointed and detached from reality. My crew is right behind me, then they're on the Normandy, then they crash, somewhere, for some reason. Meanwhile, Anderson joins me for some reason on the Citadel, and so does the Illusive man! Why? How?
2. The elements that make sense invalidate important themes and conventions of the series. I.e., the enemy of the series for ME1, ME2 and 99% of ME3 is the Reapers. Then, in the last 5 minutes, it becomes Organics themselves. It's an important and ultimately unnecessary reversal. Just have us kill the bad guys! Then, the protagonist of 99.99% of the game's 90 hour run is Shepard, but it really turns out to be the Catalyst in the final few moments of the game, who is doing the good work of preserving the galaxy and merely needs Shepard as a tool to finish this work.
These are serious issues for me. I don't care if Shepard had to kill every loved on by hand if the ending were only cohisive... or, if it had "integrity [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/integrity]," if you will.
Er, but that tangent is a little unfair. Let me actually consider your argument: given a broader definition of "happy ending," one that includes any improvements that increase my satisfaction...
I agree with that, okay. And lets vote with our dollars!
Given that we agree that far, do you think that stunts that attract attention to a fan movement to vote with wallets by doing things like Child's Play or like the Cupcake Bombing achieve no good or "go to far" per the poll?
I didn't like the ending, but the Retake Mass Effect guys are seeming more and more like crazy radicals. Especially now that the extended ending DLC was announced.
Another problem is that Retake Mass Effect is detracting gamers from a lot of the other issues with the game:
the terrible writing
the many glitches
the mandatory multiplayer
the GIANT plot holes
the tacked-on new characters
the further transition from an RPG to a shooter
the evaporation of decisions
the laughable attempts to make us feel for the little boy via bad acid trips
the practically necessary day-one DLC
the endless and pointless sidequests
the endless amount of useless bonus content
Another problem is that Retake Mass Effect is detracting gamers from a lot of the other issues with the game:
the terrible writing
the many glitches
the mandatory multiplayer
the GIANT plot holes
the tacked-on new characters
the further transition from an RPG to a shooter
the evaporation of decisions
the laughable attempts to make us feel for the little boy via bad acid trips
the practically necessary day-one DLC
the endless and pointless sidequests
the endless amount of useless bonus content
The way they keep shouting "HOLD THE LINE!!" makes me think they're taking way too many shots of testosterone... it just seems over-exaggerated, to the point that whatever arguments they may have had are lost in the alpha-male grunting.
I understand how it feels to get a crap ending to something you like. The whole thing with this "ME3 ending Rawr" though i try to ignore so idk much about those last stunts you mention.Uszi said:
Remember that nothing achieves success unless it directly hits the pocketbook of the company. Their are exceptiions to the rule but with companies like ea and bioware they are not an exception.
This retake mass effect is doing nothing but giving ea and bioware free publicity. Think of these companies like internet trolls and the fans are just the idiots that argue with the trolls.
Do you understand my opinion? The consumer has rights but when the consumer acts like an idiot because they were unsatisfied with a product they lose credibility. Instead of demanding a refund for the product they purcased and never purchasing a product from the company again they go out and make a petition to change the ending. One is more sensible than the other.
when is a video games ending so bad that we need a petition to change it? Did the ending butcher whole families and give many more lead poisoning? People need to realize that your going to get disappointed and this petition shows a great deal of immaturity which does not help with how people are going to view this hobby as a whole.
being some-one who grew up in the 90's mainly playing rpgs or other scripted games i ran across the occasional game that left a bad taste or ending in my mouth. Back in those days you played a scripted story which many newer gamers are not used to relate like what happened in fallout 3 or halo 3 ending. One such example is the game Lufia II for the snes where the mc maxim and selan are scripted to die after saving the world no matter happens. I was only 12 at the time and couldn't understand it at the time since the where maxed out with he best weapons but that's what the creator/writer was trying to tell through the story. Mind you i invested 60 hrs into this game with the huge amount of puzzles involved but the point is this is the story they are trying to tell as an older gamer I am used to it.Uszi said:
Another game that pops up is phantasy star II where the mc's love interest dies protecting him which i know isn't an ending but the fact it happened part way through the game was still saddening.. it's like taking back the fact aeris was never killed in final fantasy 7.. You can't do that.