Poll: What will the release of Steam Machines mean to you?

[Dragonbums]

For as many people who are upset at Valve for Half Life 3, you have thousands of others who will shit their pants and buy the game day 1 at the very mention of the game finally being released. Which will more or less gratify Valve for dangling half baked empty promises for 6 years about a vaporware game.

Yeah valve leaving HL2E2 on a cliffhanger for 6 years kinda pisses me off, but I wouldn't have wanted them to release a bad game just for the sake of releasing a game because the fanboys demanded it.

But, just to be perfectly fair on valve, they haven't been 'dangling half baked empty promises'. Actually, they have done the opposite, they refuse to talk about it at all (Which, to be perfectly fair to YOUR side of the argument, does make people speculate all the more).

Edit: as for your comment, nearly all those people that are upset at valve for half-life 3 will shit their pants anyway, yours truly included.

I certainly don't want them to release it for the heck of it.


I just want a definite yes we are working on it right now or no. We are not working on it right now. If ever. That's it.

Silence often amplifies everything.
Especially in these situations.

It doesn't help that every single thing that even so much as says HL3 will be mass reported by every gaming outlet in the universe.

 

[Nicholas Chandler-Yates]

Snip

snip

I certainly don't want them to release it for the heck of it.


I just want a definite yes we are working on it right now or no. We are not working on it right now. If ever. That's it.

Silence often amplifies everything.
Especially in these situations.

It doesn't help that every single thing that even so much as says HL3 will be mass reported by every gaming outlet in the universe.

Well accidentally released internal work schedules revealed that development for L4D3 and HL3 are in full swing as of a couple months ago... but yeah still no word from Gaben. This leads me to believe that they are saving up their next big releases to coincide with Steam Machines and SteamOS, which explains your observed lack of recent game publishing i agree that in the 2 years they haven't really released much, Dota 2 as you pointed out has been in beta for ages (Essentially a complete game with periodic new content being added). Although Valve has a Dev team that is still actively working on it, those Devs probably have permanent jobs working on Dota2 anyway for the foreseeable future and certainly aren't members of any R&D team for new games.

I think that they certainly decided several years ago to release HL3 with SteamOS, after all HL has always been the flagship title of each of their previous game engines and Gabe straight out said previously that development for a new source engine was in full swing. (*if* they do release HL3 and L4D3 on the new source engine they should just call it the Source3 engine tho...)

All speculation based on a few tidbits of course, but Valve would be MAD not to release SteamOS without some awesome new games to go with it and build the hype train. Hopefully they release a new Orangebox type bundle of games with some new IP, after all, thats how we ended up with Portal.

 

[Something Amyss]

Well accidentally released internal work schedules revealed that development for L4D3 and HL3 are in full swing as of a couple months ago...

This kind of leak happens every other month, though.

I think that they certainly decided several years ago to release HL3 with SteamOS

And this is the sort of speculation that happens every few months. I know you call it speculation, but I think you undersell how absurd this speculation looks, regardless of what tidbits you can string together. There's just this long litany of "evidence" that this time, E3/HL3/L4D3 will surely come out, like people who keep rescheduling The Rapture, the End of Days, or the Coming of Christ. This sort of speculation is one of the reasons people rage at Valve every time a new announcement turns out to not be E3/HL3/L4D3. And all that silence, as Dragonbums says, seems to do nothing but damage.

And honestly, if it is a launch title, they're being pretty foolish by not building up to it. HL3 for SteamOS would almost certainly turn apathy to interest in Newell's version of water to wine.

 

[ForumSafari]

When it comes out I'll probably build and install the streaming service on my home server and finally connect the sucker to my TV. Aside from that I'm not interested in prebuilt PCs, then again I'm comfortable enough with both hardware and Linux to do it myself.

 

[Synthetica]

You know, a lot of options don't cancel each other out. "I'm going to put Steam OS on my PC instead" and "I am mostly interested in the controller, if I like it I'll get a steam machine and/or get a controller for my PC" would be my answer, but I could only vote for one

 

[Skeleon]

Well, guess I'm with the majority: "I don't need this, my PC and/or console does everything I need."
I really don't see the point of this thing. I know Valve wants a bigger piece of the pie, but still. What exactly are they going to try and lure people with here?
Exclusives, like the consoles? Nope.
Convenience? Don't I supposedly have that with Steam already?
Social aspects like friends lists and whatnot? Don't I have that with Steam already (if I cared about it)?
The "feel" of gaming on a TV? Huh, I can have that with consoles or PCs already.
The price? Not like there aren't capable cheap gaming computers these days.
The controller? Won't I be able to use their controller on my PC? And if not, should I even care when I can use the Microsoft controllers?
I just don't see anything that makes this step interesting to anybody. Apart, I suppose, from brand recognition, perhaps?

 

[Nicholas Chandler-Yates]

Well accidentally released internal work schedules revealed that development for L4D3 and HL3 are in full swing as of a couple months ago...

This kind of leak happens every other month, though.

I think that they certainly decided several years ago to release HL3 with SteamOS

And this is the sort of speculation that happens every few months. I know you call it speculation, but I think you undersell how absurd this speculation looks, regardless of what tidbits you can string together. There's just this long litany of "evidence" that this time, E3/HL3/L4D3 will surely come out, like people who keep rescheduling The Rapture, the End of Days, or the Coming of Christ. This sort of speculation is one of the reasons people rage at Valve every time a new announcement turns out to not be E3/HL3/L4D3. And all that silence, as Dragonbums says, seems to do nothing but damage.

And honestly, if it is a launch title, they're being pretty foolish by not building up to it. HL3 for SteamOS would almost certainly turn apathy to interest in Newell's version of water to wine.

Good point, I am probably just getting carried away, I will restrain myself.

Well, guess I'm with the majority: "I don't need this, my PC and/or console does everything I need."
I really don't see the point of this thing. I know Valve wants a bigger piece of the pie, but still. What exactly are they going to try and lure people with here?
Exclusives, like the consoles? Nope.
Convenience? Don't I supposedly have that with Steam already?
Social aspects like friends lists and whatnot? Don't I have that with Steam already (if I cared about it)?
The "feel" of gaming on a TV? Huh, I can have that with consoles or PCs already.
The price? Not like there aren't capable cheap gaming computers these days.
The controller? Won't I be able to use their controller on my PC? And if not, should I even care when I can use the Microsoft controllers?
I just don't see anything that makes this step interesting to anybody. Apart, I suppose, from brand recognition, perhaps?

Well you just named a bunch of things that the Steam machine could do at least as well as someone else is already doing it... but can you name anyone else thats doing all of them? For a moment lets call a Steam Machine a 'console' (I know there is debate here but just roll with me). In pretty much every way the hardware architecture of the Steam machine is the same as a PC, and also the same as next gen ps4/xbone consoles.

Lets say that the criteria for making something a 'console' means having a Custom OS, a new controller, and games that run on it. These are pretty much the things that set PCs, steam machines, PS4s and bones apart. PCs have mouse and keyboard, PS4 has dual shock, etc. Steam machines have SteamOS and Xbone has XboxOS or-whatever-its-called.

of the three new consoles, which of them SHOULD you want? Which gives the best policies, options, etc.

the Steam machine is the Least locked down of all of them, Valve is basically saying if you don't like it make your own, or convert your existing windows PC over to a Steam Machine. People are acting like Openness, Upgradability, a Free OS, and a non-requirement to even buy new hardware are BAD things that make this new product irrelevant...
Seriously Valve is bringing us a whole new gaming console, essentially for FREE if you already have a machine, all you got to do is buy a controller, and you don't even *need* to do that.

and for everyone that says that Steam Machines are just fancy dressed up PCs... and then argue that this somehow makes CONSOLES better??? WTF... by that logic PS4/Xbone consoles are also nothing but PCs, except that they are VASTLY INFERIOR PCs, to both a normal PC and a Steam Machine, after all they have no upgradability, LESS GAMES (even if a few of the ones they do have are exclusives, they still have less exclusives compared to the open 'PC' platforms), a locked OS (can't install a different OS if you want), and even the price only barely competitive with building your own PC of similar specs.

You might say that a PC can already do all these things, after all, put an Xbox controller on your PC, plug into TV, run steam in big picture mode. However, the PC has never been *marketed* this way, and its really only a duct-tape type solution anyway, most PC games designed for PC won't run well with a controller with thumb sticks, precisely why valve had to invent a new input device.

Marketed as a CONSOLE, the Steam Machine simply outclasses the other next-gen consoles in every way (except price probably), and in most ways outclasses the current PC setup (pre steamOS pre steam controller) in terms of a living room device. (of course once Steam Machines launch, every PC gains the same additional functionality)
--there I said it, now cue the flame war...

EDIT: Essentially Valve has realized that there is NO REASON that we need both consoles and PCs, one device really *can* do everything that all of these devices currently do and more, or at the very least that they realize that there is a market for a device that is a middle ground. Honestly... lets say I buy a PS4 and I don't like the controller. What do I do? Can I hook up an XB controller? No. Can I hook up a mouse and keyboard? No. Can I use the new Steam Controller? Nope. What do I do? Throw away my console.
What about Xbone? same deal.
What about a Steam Machine? Lets say I hate gaming with haptic touch pads. What can I do? Xbox controller? Yep. Mouse and Keyboard? YES SIR. PS4 controller? I had to look this up but the answer is once again a resounding YES.
Purely marketed as a console, this thing is just better than PS4 and Xbone.

You could say that a PC has all the same functionality, but at the point where you hook up your steam controller and install steamOS (or stick with windows whatever), and plug it into your TV, it BECOMES a Steam Machine.
To existing PC users, Valve is saying, "Hey guess what? Heres some tools to make your PC more like all the things you love about consoles. Guess what, aside from the controller, its all FREE."

 

[Frezzato]

Taking into consideration the general idea that Linux is supposed to be "faster" than Windows, I can't help but wonder if this is the first step from Valve to gently push Microsoft out of the PC operating system business. Well, maybe not push them out entirely. Apple made the move a little while ago, making their latest OS, Mavericks, free to download. And Mavericks is compatible with Macs that are several years old, so there's no 'Vista' pain-in-the-ass situation going on. Granted, you can only install Mavericks on Mac hardware, but it's a step in the right direction.

The thing that sticks in my mind about SteamOS is the letters 'OS'. Will SteamOS have the same access to the free programs that already exist for Linux, following in the footsteps of people who already release stuff free of charge on Windows (Avast!, ZoneAlarm, etc.) in addition to the 'big guys' like Google and Open Office?[footnote]Don't get me wrong, Open Office is still weird to use. Replacing Excel with Open Office's syntax takes some getting used to.[/footnote] Will there be access to media players and productivity software?

I think that's the real issue here. If SteamOS comes with access to decent applications other than those related to gaming, then we'll have an idea of the long-term strategy and the real reason to own a "Steam Box" in whichever form you choose. People are getting hung up on the physical, pre-built Steam Box, but that's just people being people. Hardware specs are somewhat easy to compare, and you can miss the big picture (pun...intended?) by focusing just on hardware. People look at it and think that it's just PC hardware, but that's just Valve offering different choices. If you game using mostly Steam, and SteamOS is free, then why not download it? And if you're one of the many PC owners who don't need Windows in order to live and work (Outlook, etc.) then why not abandon Windows?

Just a reminder, I'm not saying to abandon Windows. Windows 7 works, and it works well. But compare the cost of a single-license OEM copy of Windows 7 at $100 on Amazon to, say, zero dollars for a copy of Linux.

Regarding the thread, I'll definitely download SteamOS, if for no other reason than I'm curious. I'm curious to see if the generalization that Linux is faster than Windows rings true for gaming. A gaming PC without the required overhead of Windows--correction, without the overhead of Microsoft, that's what I'm curious to see.

 

[Nicholas Chandler-Yates]

Snip

This is something i would like to know as well, will SteamOS be a full OS, meaning will it have access to a desktop where i can download open office, install all manner of non gaming apps, etc. if it isn't i think Valve will be missing a huge opportunity, however, i think them going this route is unlikely as its been stated that SteamOS is basically a modified Ubuntu distro at its core, you would think they wouldn't nerf the OS just for the sake of it.

Edit: and considering where the other consoles are going with social media, internet browsing, netflix, etc. It would be silly for Valve to not include this functionality.

 

[Frezzato]

Snip

This is something i would like to know as well, will SteamOS be a full OS, meaning will it have access to a desktop where i can download open office, install all manner of non gaming apps, etc. if it isn't i think Valve will be missing a huge opportunity, however, i think them going this route s unlikely as its been stated that SteamOS is basically a modified Ubuntu distro at its core, you would thing they wouldn't nerf the OS just for the sake of it.

Damn, I was hoping they were going to distribute a general operating system. However, I won't be surprised if other Linux applications just happened to work well on SteamOS.

Call me crazy, but I think it's somewhat possible that, in the confusion of both Sony and Microsoft fighting to get into people's homes to become the entertainment hub, Steam Box sneaks in disguised as a gaming/entertainment hub and ambushes Microsoft for the position of being the home computing hub.

Great, now I want Yahtzee to make a cartoon about that.

*EDIT*
Ah, here we go. you can get both Office 365 and Adobe Creative Suite for Linux [http://www.dailytech.com/Meet+Steam+OS+a+Gamers+Alternative+to+Windows+8/article33432.htm]. I say all of this as if it's all news to me because it is, I've never used Linux[footnote]At least, not as a PC operating system [http://fsckin.com/2007/11/06/20-awesome-devices-that-run-linux-but-werent-designed-to/][/footnote] and never thought of looking for these things.

 

[ForumSafari]

Snip

This is something i would like to know as well, will SteamOS be a full OS, meaning will it have access to a desktop where i can download open office, install all manner of non gaming apps, etc. if it isn't i think Valve will be missing a huge opportunity, however, i think them going this route is unlikely as its been stated that SteamOS is basically a modified Ubuntu distro at its core, you would think they wouldn't nerf the OS just for the sake of it.

Edit: and considering where the other consoles are going with social media, internet browsing, netflix, etc. It would be silly for Valve to not include this functionality.

The nature of Linux is that it's not a monolithic operating system like Windows, it's an aggregation of modular systems that can be swapped in and out with varying levels of difficulty. For example:

Spoiler

These are all Ubuntu. Elementary is just Ubuntu with a customised desktop and it can be installed on regular Ubuntu. Changing to all except that desktop was a question of installing one package from the software centre, changing to Luna involves adding a new software repository so in actual fact it's only a few more clicks. The point of course being that even if it just a locked down Big Screen launcher it'd be trivial to add a proper desktop and whatever applications you wanted, you're not reliant on what Valve choose to give you.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

I'm sure I'm not the only one to note this, but this whole Steam Machines affair seems to be motivated by GabeN's personal vendetta against Windows and home consoles rather than being an actual business venture. This will probably work out for them financially anyway, even if customer loyalty is literally the only thing selling Steam Machines.

As for myself I won't be getting anything Steam Machine related, not in the near future anyway.

The nature of Linux is that it's not a monolithic operating system like Windows, it's an aggregation of modular systems that can be swapped in and out with varying levels of difficulty.

That's not accurate at all. The only major difference between Windows and Linux OSs is that Linux is open source so anyone could make changes and compile their own version. Furthermore some Linux distros are closed source (like Chrome OS) so forking is not possible.

I find you describing Windows as "monolithic" especially objectionable since what determines what is a Windows or Linux OS is its kernel and it's actually Linux which has a monolithic kernel. That's some pretty extreme nitpicking on my part though.

Anyway, your actual point is valid. Whoever wants to could change whatever they want about SteamOS.

 

[ForumSafari]

That's not accurate at all. The only major difference between Windows and Linux OSs is that Linux is open source so anyone could make changes and compile their own version. Furthermore some Linux distros are closed source (like Chrome OS) so forking is not possible.

In the spirit of nitpicking Linux isn't open source, it's free. There are tonnes of differences between Windows and Linux including the way they handle configuration files and the items below about the modularity of the system. Chrome OS may be closed source but you can elevate to root and install or remove any components you want, if you wanted to you could replace damn near every part of the system a piece at a time. I'm not concerned about being able to fork a given distro so much as I am about the modularity of the instance of the OS you install.

Having said that ChromeOS is just a Google branded build of ChromiumOS which is open source.

I find you describing Windows as "monolithic" especially objectionable since what determines what is a Windows or Linux OS is its kernel and it's actually Linux which has a monolithic kernel. That's some pretty extreme nitpicking on my part though.

The difference is not in the kernel, of which both are monolithic since no one uses microkernels. I was referring to the operating system, not the kernel and by Linux I obviously meant any operating system built around the Linux kernel. When you install Windows you install Windows and Windows is what you install. When you install Linux you can choose to remove x11 if you want, you can remove the coreutils, add a different package manager or drop in a replacement kernel. The operating system is more than just the kernel and pretty much any part of a Linux install can be switched out if you're willing to restart the service once you're done.

Edited for clarity.

 

[Nicholas Chandler-Yates]

I'm sure I'm not the only one to note this, but this whole Steam Machines affair seems to be motivated by GabeN's personal vendetta against Windows and home consoles rather than being an actual business venture. This will probably work out for them financially anyway, even if customer loyalty is literally the only thing selling Steam Machines.

TRUE. Windows has seen what apple has done with having a closed system in its tablet market, and how much money it has made them and wants it too, despite windows' biggest selling point being that it was so open (every application worked on it).

Basically it comes down to that answer to this question: Do you trust Valve or Microsoft?

...

...

...

BWAHAHAHAHahahahah... sorry couldn't keep a straight face, but seriously the answer to this question should be OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE.

 

[Dragonbums]

I'm sure I'm not the only one to note this, but this whole Steam Machines affair seems to be motivated by GabeN's personal vendetta against Windows and home consoles rather than being an actual business venture. This will probably work out for them financially anyway, even if customer loyalty is literally the only thing selling Steam Machines.

TRUE. Windows has seen what apple has done with having a closed system in its tablet market, and how much money it has made them and wants it too, despite windows' biggest selling point being that it was so open (every application worked on it).

Basically it comes down to that answer to this question: Do you trust Valve or Microsoft?

...

...

...

BWAHAHAHAHahahahah... sorry couldn't keep a straight face, but seriously the answer to this question should be OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE.

Actually. It's not obvious.

If you've been following Valve's recent implementations in regards to their policies on Steam, an ever slowly increasing user base is getting pretty annoyed with them.

In fact, I would rather just stick to Windows.

 

[Nicholas Chandler-Yates]

snip

Actually. It's not obvious.

If you've been following Valve's recent implementations in regards to their policies on Steam, an ever slowly increasing user base is getting pretty annoyed with them.

In fact, I would rather just stick to Windows.

Surely anything that applies to Steam policies applies to microsoft policies 10 times over tho...

Edit: Except that microsoft has lost my trust, and Valve keeps doing things to gain my trust. Just because they *have* more power, doesn't mean they are going to abuse it. Actions speak louder than EULAs.

 

[Dragonbums]

snip

Actually. It's not obvious.

If you've been following Valve's recent implementations in regards to their policies on Steam, an ever slowly increasing user base is getting pretty annoyed with them.

In fact, I would rather just stick to Windows.

Surely anything that applies to Steam policies applies to microsoft policies 10 times over tho...

Edit: Except that microsoft has lost my trust, and Valve keeps doing things to gain my trust. Just because they *have* more power, doesn't mean they are going to abuse it. Actions speak louder than EULAs.

Does it matter? You are talking about an box that is entirely centered around the increasingly shitty Steam policies. You know, the ones that Valve implemented.

At least on my Windows laptop I can simply go to other alternative store fronts and not have to deal with Steam. However in the Steam box, providing they allow you to put in another OS, you are locked in.

 

[Nicholas Chandler-Yates]

snip

Actually. It's not obvious.

If you've been following Valve's recent implementations in regards to their policies on Steam, an ever slowly increasing user base is getting pretty annoyed with them.

In fact, I would rather just stick to Windows.

Surely anything that applies to Steam policies applies to microsoft policies 10 times over tho...

Edit: Except that microsoft has lost my trust, and Valve keeps doing things to gain my trust. Just because they *have* more power, doesn't mean they are going to abuse it. Actions speak louder than EULAs.

Does it matter? You are talking about an box that is entirely centered around the increasingly shitty Steam policies. You know, the ones that Valve implemented.


At least on my Windows laptop I can simply go to other alternative store fronts and not have to deal with Steam. However in the Steam box, providing they allow you to put in another OS, you are locked in.

How exactly are you locked in? If you want you can just install windows if you care so much. plus, SteamOS isn't even released yet, how do you know it will be a locked down OS? That wouldn't even make sense for valve PR wise as the whole idea here is more options and more choice, not less.

increasingly Shitty steam policies? perhaps, but they still aren't nearly as bad as how consoles treat their customers. (join THAT discussion here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.835046-Valve-haters-vs-Valve-fanboys-DRM-and-Why-do-some-people-hate-Valve-and-steam)

Edit: Exactly what shitty steam policies are you speaking about? EULA changes involving class action lawsuits? or something else...? You know that EULAs are not even legally binding in the USA? And that Sony and Microsoft implemented similar clauses YEARS ago, and nobody complained?

 

[Dragonbums]

snip

Actually. It's not obvious.

If you've been following Valve's recent implementations in regards to their policies on Steam, an ever slowly increasing user base is getting pretty annoyed with them.

In fact, I would rather just stick to Windows.

Surely anything that applies to Steam policies applies to microsoft policies 10 times over tho...

Edit: Except that microsoft has lost my trust, and Valve keeps doing things to gain my trust. Just because they *have* more power, doesn't mean they are going to abuse it. Actions speak louder than EULAs.

Does it matter? You are talking about an box that is entirely centered around the increasingly shitty Steam policies. You know, the ones that Valve implemented.


At least on my Windows laptop I can simply go to other alternative store fronts and not have to deal with Steam. However in the Steam box, providing they allow you to put in another OS, you are locked in.

How exactly are you locked in? If you want you can just install windows if you care so much. plus, SteamOS isn't even released yet, how do you know it will be a locked down OS? That wouldn't even make sense for valve PR wise as the whole idea here is more options and more choice, not less.

increasingly Shitty steam policies? perhaps, but they still aren't nearly as bad as how consoles treat their customers. (join THAT discussion here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.835046-Valve-haters-vs-Valve-fanboys-DRM-and-Why-do-some-people-hate-Valve-and-steam)

Edit: Exactly what shitty steam policies are you speaking about? EULA changes involving class action lawsuits? or something else...? You know that EULAs are not even legally binding in the USA? And that Sony and Microsoft implemented similar clauses YEARS ago, and nobody complained?

For some people that is a big deal.

Just because Sony and Microsoft did it first doesn't mean it's okay for Valve to do it too. Especially when everyone likes to put them on the pedestal as saviors of videogames.
For the record though, I'm a Nintendo fan. So aside from region locking I don't have to put up with half the bullshit third party developers pull on a daily basis.

But yeah, you know, keep touting the Valve horn and disregard anyone who may not feel comfortable with having a box entirely centered around Valve's policies.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

For some people that is a big deal.

Just because Sony and Microsoft did it first doesn't mean it's okay for Valve to do it too. Especially when everyone likes to put them on the pedestal as saviors of videogames.
For the record though, I'm a Nintendo fan. So aside from region locking I don't have to put up with half the bullshit third party developers pull on a daily basis.

But yeah, you know, keep touting the Valve horn and disregard anyone who may not feel comfortable with having a box entirely centered around Valve's policies.

now this is coming from someone who loathes half life and most of valve's games with a passion, so don't mistake me for a valve fan, but what does valve do differently that microsoft/sony/nintendo don't already implement? how is the steam box going to be on par/worse than what consoles have in terms of being a closed off? from everything i have seen, steam OS is entirely optional, they actively encourage you to use what you wish, so what exactly makes you more uncomfortable with what valve/steam/whatever you have a bone to pick with than what everyone else does?

and who puts them as pedestal of saviors of video games? steam was sneered at for years before anyone began to be remotely okay with it, even then to this day (such as yourself quite clearly) there are tons of people who have problems with steam.